It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 151492 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#111036 Feb 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your words, not mine, and characteristically lacking in logical parallel.
My example: Bible states Sargon existed. Archaeology proves Sargon existed.
Your example: A story states Spiderman lives in New York. New York exists, so Spiderman exists.
You, of course, don't see the difference in reasoning paths here, but most everyone else will readily and clearly discern the non-parallel.
Yes, they are the exact same logic. So by your own logic, Spiderman exists.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#111037 Feb 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You are referencing Ehrman to make the specific point that Matthew never met Jesus. Do your homework. From all that material find and provide the specific portions which you think make that point.
Sorry guy, I returned the books to the library long ago. You're library is bound to have them...they were popular books

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111038 Feb 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a truly dizzying intellect.
The material you provided relates to volcanic craters, and has nothing to do with the Barringer Meteor Crater in Northern Arizona.
LAKES is the buzzword.
Any form or shape that can be filled by sediments particularly since we are talking LACRUSTIANS.

Ejection material you also dismissed. As if a meteorhit wouldhave no ejction marerial and would leave no lacrusteans behind!

Sorry but direct your comments to the air of a wall next time...it's too daft.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111039 Feb 24, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Again from Wikipedia:
Papias does not identify his Matthew, but by the end of the 2nd century the tradition of Matthew the tax-collector had become widely accepted, and the line "The Gospel According to Matthew" began to be added to manuscripts. For many reasons scholars today believe otherwise—for example, the gospel is based on Mark, and "it seems unlikely that an eyewitness of Jesus’ ministry, such as Matthew, would need to rely on others for information about it"—and believe instead that it was written between about 80–90 AD by a highly educated Jew (an "Israelite", in the language of the gospel itself), intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, standing on the boundary between traditional and non-traditional Jewish values. The disciple Matthew was probably honored within the author's circle, as the name Matthew is more prominent in this gospel than any other.
The author drew on three primary sources, each representing a distinct community: a hypothetical collection, or several collections, of sayings (called "Q", and shared with Luke); the Gospel of Mark; and material unique to Matthew (called "M", some of which may have originated with Matthew himself)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthe...
Since f.i. starts with KATA MARKON it gave me the idea that it cod conincide with Marcions ideas. Just as John reads like all the assorted discussions of the churchfathers.(In judaism thread we compared completely opposite statements.) And it reads like it is debating against the content of Thomas gospel.
So Meatthew and Luke probably also have counterpart in the real heretic gnostic world.

Apropos P52=RP457
First a look at the greek translation of torah:
Oshea, found at Joshua 13.8&16, is spelled AYSH, whilst the Jehoshua
found at Joshua 13.16 is spelled IHSOYN: note, this last is a case in declension - the nominative form would still be IHSOYS.

Note that the names can not be read in P52!
But in the form it is presented on wiki we see IHSOY (nominative english he) and IHSOYN (dative english him)

The proper greek for saviour would be SATER.(in one koine greek example)
http://groups.yahoo.com/AncientBibleHistory/m...
TR nobody grabbing someone elses throat here.;p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rylands_Library_...

In the meantime looked at some old books with commentaries.
IH SOYS usually stood for 'The' Zeus.
IH with added eta would signify 'of Zeus'or 'Zeus's'

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#111040 Feb 24, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Boulders ejected FROM the crater are not exactly lake sediment IN the crater are they dunce?
They're still 50,000 years old.
What of your creation myth now?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111041 Feb 24, 2013
318-319 ce
Deir Ali inscription (Damascus area)
Marcio community enyojing freedom of worship.
ounagogè Marchionoiotoun choem (es) lebaabun tou
ch(ourio)u tu s(ute)rus 'Ie(sou) chreotou

The problem finding the nametitle 'jesus', in whatever language of yore is compounded by the sourses having only halve mentions or like here we are believed that IE should be followed by something.
Lacking the original depiction one just does not know. So therefore i simply state that sofar i haven't got a clue as to the first place to find a mention of the nametitle jesus.

March (Mark) and ionoiotoun (John), could have become two gospel names.
And church history is unreliable. Just a bit to convenient often and not supported by outside sources.
Self-referencing mainly.
With convenient i mean that we would f.i. know that a city and it's inhabitants were destroyed by an earthquake or the plague. Well just at that time the churchfather had set out on a trip to Rome. Various of such examples can be found, which are used to make them look like god's providence was on their site, and thus whatever they claim, burn, destroy is legitimate.

In Armenia in the 5th century Marcionites were still numerous.
Sofar the prosecution.
Any slaves (crest-usuefull (person)crestus/crestoi) however had a lousy time.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111042 Feb 24, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe John is considered to be the last gospel written...would that be true or false??
Also I have read in several different places that his gospel was written around 95-105 AD.
I've worked through reams of material and learned that most early finds should actually at least be placed in the early 3rd century.
Unless they are gnostic texts or clearly judaic, or if they are from Syria, but that would be like Marcionism just another branch.
For the gospels, apart for attributing the few letters to john, and presuming it was about jesus and not about sotorial activity of the pharasaic court, we would find no proof.
It's rather grasping at straws it suddenly gnostic material has to stand in as proof the validity of christianity.

The earliest versions of the gospels do not look one bit like the distilled and redacted version we have now.
Mind 70,000 differences.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111043 Feb 24, 2013
I fyou look at the modern NT some wonder if all those gospels were infuenced by f.i. Paul's letters before they were written:

Answer
It's possible, in theory, for the authors of the Gospels to have been influenced, somehow, by Paul's letters. Realize, though, that Team Xerox and the Internet weren't quite as efficient as they are today; Paul's letters were sent to specific churches and individuals, who had them transcribed (enter Team Xerox :)) and passed on to other churches (enter the early Internet :)) by hand. More than likely the Gospel writers wouldn't have read Paul's epistles by the time they started their own writings.

Answer
Some close textual parallels suggest that each of the authors of the gospels may well have been influenced by Paul's letters. For example:

some parallels have been detected between Mark and Romans. Mark's "he declared all foods are clean" ( 7:19) is considered to resemble Rom 14:14: "I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself."
the eucharist in Luke 22:19-20 is based on Mark, but it differs in "my body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me", which resembles 1 Corinthians 11:24-25. In fact, the eucharist in Mark 14:22-24 may also be based on 1 Corinthians, so that Luke was influenced both directly and indirectly.
Whereas Paul, in his references to a risen body of Jesus, spoke of one that was spiritual and not flesh and blood [1 Cor 15:44,50], Luke was particularly insistent on the reality of Jesus' appearance. Luke may have been influenced, in that he rejected the Pauline version, rather than that he copied it.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#111044 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
How accurate would God want his word to be since it's impossible to express Pi exactly with one number?
I think that after a Guy comes up with all that other stuff (like everything), He reaches a point where He encounters a small math problem and just says "F*ck it! Let the goat herders figure it out for themselves. Nobody's ever gonna care about it anyway."

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111045 Feb 25, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that after a Guy comes up with all that other stuff (like everything), He reaches a point where He encounters a small math problem and just says "F*ck it! Let the goat herders figure it out for themselves. Nobody's ever gonna care about it anyway."
Having KAB in mind, even being god i would not see the point.
Or rather put a stop to it then and there.
;p

I often wondered.
Is an inventor a failed engineer?
Like having a DIY project and misreading or lacking some screws, you just invent your own furniture.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111046 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were a reasonable guy you would include the question, Do we have any demonstrated reliable documentation about God. In considering the Bible for that body of documentation you would note Job 26:7, and that apart from the Bible there is no evidence man even grasped the concept at the time it was written. You would also realize that there is no non-God believable explanation for this. You would further realize/acknowledge that it only takes one piece of confirming data to make a case.

Job 26:7 was put in the bible after the Greeks discovered it.

Greek literature is the earliest known incident of this.

The Hebrews did'nt even know what pi was.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111047 Feb 25, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, just go to your library and check out 'Jesus interrupted' and 'Misquoting Jesus' Easy reading and he lists sources. You know come to think of it, I think there is some mention of this in the 'Catholic Encyclopedia...I'll have to hunt that down.

His books on early Christianities is also stellar.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111048 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have a truly dizzying intellect.
The material you provided relates to volcanic craters, and has nothing to do with the Barringer Meteor Crater in Northern Arizona.

I believe the quote is: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Other than that you are wrong about sedimentation in craters being somehow magically different.

Meteor Crater is great evidence that there was never a global flood in the last 50,000 years.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111049 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what you think? "A" one and only single tablet with the word 'sargon' on it has been found, and the Bible just throws in the word 'sargon' devoid of any context? Since you have proven you generally like to do research, please do this one before sticking your foot in any further.
Also, whatever Kit's conclusion, her reasoning does not parallel mine, although she presented it as if it does.

We have multiple Sargon's, possibly 3 of them.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111050 Feb 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe the quote is: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Other than that you are wrong about sedimentation in craters being somehow magically different.
Meteor Crater is great evidence that there was never a global flood in the last 50,000 years.
The man forgets his baring all the time.
lacrustatians are the same wherever.
If he talked about varves i had to go specific.
But even Mataz answer fit the bill.
If you could simply scan this line for scientific sites quoted as f.i. a learning tool, it's truly gold, or maybe pearls for the swines.

To bad this forum does not have a good reference system.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111051 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I notice you didn't explain how the material provided confirms Matthew never met Jesus.

I notice you didn't read the material provided, AGAIN!



Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you being dishonest or did you not read carefully.
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Not proof of course, but there is this from Wikipedia:
“The Gospel of Matthew does not name its author. The tradition that this was the disciple Matthew begins with the early Christian bishop Papias of Hierapolis (about 100–140 AD), who, in a passage with several ambiguous phrases, wrote: "Matthew collected the oracles (logia—sayings of or about Jesus) in the Hebrew language (Hebraïdi dialekt&#333;i—perhaps alternatively "Hebrew style") and each one interpreted (h&#275;rm&#275;neusen —or "translated") them as best he could." On the surface this implies that Matthew was written in Hebrew and translated into Greek, but Matthew's Greek "reveals none of the telltale marks of a translation." Scholars have put forward several theories to explain Papias: perhaps Matthew wrote two gospels, one, now lost, in Hebrew, the other our Greek version; or perhaps the logia was a collection of sayings rather than the gospel; or by dialekt&#333;i Papias may have meant that Matthew wrote in the Jewish style rather than in the Hebrew language.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthe ...
I suspect a little of both

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#111052 Feb 25, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's true I've been unable to stretch my critical thinking skills to the possibility that Earth's shape may be cubic. If I ever succeed I may have a basis for further reasoning with you.

Something to work on to help you get there, the bible refers to the earth as a "disk" and a "circle", in spite of having a term for sphere in their vocabulary.

I wonder why god pick the word for a flat object?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#111053 Feb 25, 2013
Lacrustatians: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

----------
How old are you all?:)))

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111054 Feb 25, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>That is because all you have to trust in is another human.
Nope. It's because I'm not blinded by religion.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#111055 Feb 25, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>He couldn't care less what you think. Nor do I. Why do you think you are so special?
Because I am.

:-)

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 1 min Chimney1 205,502
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 28 min Aura Mytha 18,711
can anyone explain to me why humans are the onl... (Mar '08) 1 hr nanoanomaly 938
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 6 hr Into The Night 43,411
evolution is correct. prove me wrong (Jul '15) 17 hr Chazofsaints 37
Questions about first life Aug 28 Upright Scientist 18
Carbon and isotopic dating are a lie Aug 27 One way or another 16
More from around the web