It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110520 Feb 19, 2013

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#110521 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis has the order wrong. Wiggle all you want. That is fact.
Mike I don't know if you know it or not, but the JW's generally believe in the Day-Age theory (a day could be millions of years. or a hundred).
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110522 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem logic impaired.
The bible is the source of the information used.
100% of the bible was written before 200 years ago.
Someone commenting on the bible 200 years ago (or less) would have 100% of the information someone today has.
Unless you can provide data that contradicts this.
As to research and beliefs about the bible, these have changed a lot. The fundamental movement (and all the cults it spawned from about 1850 to 1920) developed their own (unsupported) ideas about the bible (e.g. literalism, word of god,....). Historic research has been going the opposite direction and has shown that literalism was never intended and much of the bible is metaphor, traditions, and teaching stories. Fundamentalism insists (without data) that the professed authors of books are their actual authors (often without supporting evidence IN THE BOOK!). Actual research shows that most of the books of the bible were written well after the time of their alleged authors.
Religious books are often cited by other religious books and even secular writings. If you can date the newer work then you know the work being cited is older. There are no citations of the Pentateuch till over 500 years after Moses allegedly lived.
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?

BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110523 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would the Hebrews have an "Egyptian" leader, Moses, as recorded in their own history?

He was not Egyptian. He was raised Egyptian.

You might want to read the bible sometime.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110524 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your kidding, right.
You think there are no bronze age finds from that region. Seriously?
Please provide proof of lack of data from this area and time.
If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110525 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor does archaeology refute Exodus.

At some point absence of evidence does become evidence of absence.

See Michelson–Morley.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110526 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think there should not have been light before the plants?

That is not what he said.

1. earth (& heavens)
2. light
3. dome & firmament
........
lights in the sky (a lot of stars, 1 moon & a few planets).

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110527 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike I don't know if you know it or not, but the JW's generally believe in the Day-Age theory (a day could be millions of years. or a hundred).

Yes, in spite of the fact that Genesis 1 explicitly spells out what constitutes a day in that context.

It could not be more obvious, but JW's love to deny obvious reality.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110528 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
1. He claims to be a Christian.
The only one qualified to ultimately evaluate that claim is God.
Have you evaluated the JW's comprehensively according to the Bible? They fail miserably based on objective criteria but they are good at rationalization (to themselves, no one else buys this crud).
What makes you think that JW's are Christian?
JWs are committed to adhering to the Bible's standards, principles, and requirements. I don't know of even one they dismiss. Please don't start grabbing things out of context to claim otherwise. That could waste a lot of time and effort.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#110529 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?
BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?
Do you think that the proliferation of different Bibles and denominations detracts from the believability of the Bible and religion in general??

I do, and I think these are good indications that all of it is false.

Don't you think a real bona fide 'God' would be able to produce a book that no-one would have issues with; a book universally known as 'truth' and indicative of the God that people proclaim Him to be??

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110530 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?

Does not matter. The bible has not changed in 200 years.
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?

Sure I do. But ideally evidence in the book, multiple attestation, independent historical record and archeological evidence are all facts that can be checked against one another. If the book says one thing and all the other sources point the other way the that needs to be considered. For you, however, if the bible says one thing then all the other sources can be ignored. Your choice. i will personally go with the evidence.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110531 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.

Really, there is something you think you don't know.

How outstanding!

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#110532 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
At some point absence of evidence does become evidence of absence.
See Michelson–Morley.
Over a hundred years now of NO evidence at all from the Sinai desert. Pretty convincing to me.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110533 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
JWs are committed to adhering to the Bible's standards, principles, and requirements. I don't know of even one they dismiss. Please don't start grabbing things out of context to claim otherwise. That could waste a lot of time and effort.

Need I remind you of what JW survivors say about the JW cult? The mind control, the pseudo logic, the ever changing history, the rationalizations, OH THE RATIONALIZATIONS....

And at one time they believe it all. Yet they were able to break free. Maybe, someday, you can too.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110534 Feb 19, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're going to the pull the no-true-Scotsman ploy?
Ernst Haekel is embarrassing to Evolutionists.
Will you allow us to say that he wasn't a true Evolutionist?
You can say whatever you want about Ernstie. I don't know him or what he thought then or now. Nor do I care. Many people change (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). I'm interested in what available data teaches us.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110535 Feb 19, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I would remind you that the glaring errors of Genesis have been belabored innumerable times, but clearly you have far more invested in defending faith than in objective reasoning. Your "reality" is not a physical reality and Genesis is not in harmony with anything but church hymnals.
Invoking the church hymnal references betrays how juvenile your approach to this matter is.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110536 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Israeli archaeologists Ze'ev Herzog and Israel Finkelstein, middle eastern archaeologists have found evidence of smaller groups passing through both before and after the supposed time, but nothing whatsoever of the 'Exodus' group.
You can use/google their names to look up the information
I offer the following, not as proof of anything, but as food for thought and something to help keep the scales balanced,

http://individual.utoronto.ca/mfkolarcik/jesu...
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110537 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
“The long term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise.  Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church’s public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.” Gary North
Did you notice his confirming Bible citations (i.e., None)?
BTW, does he wear sheep suits?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110538 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You can say whatever you want about Ernstie. I don't know him or what he thought then or now. Nor do I care. Many people change (1 Corinthians 6:9-11). I'm interested in what available data teaches us.

Available data teaches us about evolution.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110539 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Invoking the church hymnal references betrays how juvenile your approach to this matter is.

As opposed to your faith based incredulity. Yes, that is much more mature.

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