It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 152321 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#110514 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Early NASCAR?
Hmm.

I'd be a bit more interested in NASCAR if they laid out the track in a figure-8.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110515 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your assertion.
Actually the Egyptians recorded bad things but they spun them (like the Republicans and Democrats do), so they did not sound so bad. Tutankhamun's victory at Kadesh is one example (victory?). So it is a matter of understanding Egyptian psychology and how they recorded things. Major events were addressed. They just spun things like you do. So a story about Hebrews being thrown out of Egypt for trouble making would be good evidence. But there is not even any recording of Hebrews even having been in Egypt in any numbers during this time period (Ramses II).
Why would the Hebrews have an "Egyptian" leader, Moses, as recorded in their own history?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110516 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
It's "Smoke 'em if you got 'em".
Sheesh.
So it is.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110517 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Archaeology - independent of Egyptian records - does not support Exodus.
Nor does archaeology refute Exodus.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110518 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis has the order wrong. Wiggle all you want. That is fact.
Do you think there should not have been light before the plants?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#110519 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor does archaeology refute Exodus.
Yes it does KAB

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110520 Feb 19, 2013

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#110521 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis has the order wrong. Wiggle all you want. That is fact.
Mike I don't know if you know it or not, but the JW's generally believe in the Day-Age theory (a day could be millions of years. or a hundred).
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110522 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem logic impaired.
The bible is the source of the information used.
100% of the bible was written before 200 years ago.
Someone commenting on the bible 200 years ago (or less) would have 100% of the information someone today has.
Unless you can provide data that contradicts this.
As to research and beliefs about the bible, these have changed a lot. The fundamental movement (and all the cults it spawned from about 1850 to 1920) developed their own (unsupported) ideas about the bible (e.g. literalism, word of god,....). Historic research has been going the opposite direction and has shown that literalism was never intended and much of the bible is metaphor, traditions, and teaching stories. Fundamentalism insists (without data) that the professed authors of books are their actual authors (often without supporting evidence IN THE BOOK!). Actual research shows that most of the books of the bible were written well after the time of their alleged authors.
Religious books are often cited by other religious books and even secular writings. If you can date the newer work then you know the work being cited is older. There are no citations of the Pentateuch till over 500 years after Moses allegedly lived.
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?

BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110523 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would the Hebrews have an "Egyptian" leader, Moses, as recorded in their own history?

He was not Egyptian. He was raised Egyptian.

You might want to read the bible sometime.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110524 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your kidding, right.
You think there are no bronze age finds from that region. Seriously?
Please provide proof of lack of data from this area and time.
If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110525 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Nor does archaeology refute Exodus.

At some point absence of evidence does become evidence of absence.

See Michelson–Morley.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110526 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think there should not have been light before the plants?

That is not what he said.

1. earth (& heavens)
2. light
3. dome & firmament
........
lights in the sky (a lot of stars, 1 moon & a few planets).

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110527 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike I don't know if you know it or not, but the JW's generally believe in the Day-Age theory (a day could be millions of years. or a hundred).

Yes, in spite of the fact that Genesis 1 explicitly spells out what constitutes a day in that context.

It could not be more obvious, but JW's love to deny obvious reality.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110528 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
1. He claims to be a Christian.
The only one qualified to ultimately evaluate that claim is God.
Have you evaluated the JW's comprehensively according to the Bible? They fail miserably based on objective criteria but they are good at rationalization (to themselves, no one else buys this crud).
What makes you think that JW's are Christian?
JWs are committed to adhering to the Bible's standards, principles, and requirements. I don't know of even one they dismiss. Please don't start grabbing things out of context to claim otherwise. That could waste a lot of time and effort.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#110529 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?
BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?
Do you think that the proliferation of different Bibles and denominations detracts from the believability of the Bible and religion in general??

I do, and I think these are good indications that all of it is false.

Don't you think a real bona fide 'God' would be able to produce a book that no-one would have issues with; a book universally known as 'truth' and indicative of the God that people proclaim Him to be??

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110530 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Which Bible was the source of the info 200 years ago? Was it an English Bible, the Alexandrine/Sinaitic/Vatican manuscripts, supplemented by the Dead Sea Scrolls, and/or thousands of other finds discovered over the last 200 years, and all of which are not identical in content? What exactly was he using to study and draw his conclusions?

Does not matter. The bible has not changed in 200 years.
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, you don't accept supporting evidence IN THE BOOK, do you?

Sure I do. But ideally evidence in the book, multiple attestation, independent historical record and archeological evidence are all facts that can be checked against one another. If the book says one thing and all the other sources point the other way the that needs to be considered. For you, however, if the bible says one thing then all the other sources can be ignored. Your choice. i will personally go with the evidence.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110531 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
If I knew the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question.

Really, there is something you think you don't know.

How outstanding!

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#110532 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
At some point absence of evidence does become evidence of absence.
See Michelson–Morley.
Over a hundred years now of NO evidence at all from the Sinai desert. Pretty convincing to me.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110533 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
JWs are committed to adhering to the Bible's standards, principles, and requirements. I don't know of even one they dismiss. Please don't start grabbing things out of context to claim otherwise. That could waste a lot of time and effort.

Need I remind you of what JW survivors say about the JW cult? The mind control, the pseudo logic, the ever changing history, the rationalizations, OH THE RATIONALIZATIONS....

And at one time they believe it all. Yet they were able to break free. Maybe, someday, you can too.

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