It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 164694 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#110479 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
With regard to silly arguments, the account specifically states that there was light before there were plants. So yes, your argument is silly.
Genesis has the order wrong. Wiggle all you want. That is fact.
KAB

United States

#110480 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
It is all out of order. The earth existed before the stars, etc.
It is basically all wrong.
Not without confirming data, which you have never been able to provide.
KAB

United States

#110481 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
My point. Thank you.
No, your point did not address what was not known about the Bible 100 years ago. The conclusions drawn 100 years ago and which you like could not have accounted for what was not then known.
KAB

United States

#110482 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know of any evidence that the Hebrews did sojourn in Egypt for 400 years or so and grow from about 70 souls to well over a million....probably over 2 million people??
Of course if they didn't spend the time there there would be no Egyptian record either.
Then of course there is the fact that there is no archaeological record for them spending 40 years in the Sinai desert either.
What would have to unavoidably remain in the desert 3500 years later? Has anything been found there from that timeframe as a precedent?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#110483 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Not without confirming data, which you have never been able to provide.
You're nuts. It has been provided.
KAB

United States

#110484 Feb 19, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
Why Christians (and other religions as well) are totally dangerous in today's world.
There will never be world peace until Gods house and Gods people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. Pat Robertson
What makes you think Pat Robertson is a Christian? Have you evaluated him comprehensively according to the Bible?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110485 Feb 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Archaeology - independent of Egyptian records - does not support Exodus.

And it is not as if they did not TRY to prove the Exodus. Many Jews don't even believe in the Exodus (though many do in a militant fashion!).

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110486 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Not without confirming data, which you have never been able to provide.

Astronomy
Cosmologogy
Astrophysics
Geology
Physics

For starters you have 5 whole fields of science to contend with.

Let me know when you have some data. Till then yours is just an assertion.


http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.b...

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9509115

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110487 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No, your point did not address what was not known about the Bible 100 years ago. The conclusions drawn 100 years ago and which you like could not have accounted for what was not then known.

You seem logic impaired.

The bible is the source of the information used.
100% of the bible was written before 200 years ago.
Someone commenting on the bible 200 years ago (or less) would have 100% of the information someone today has.

Unless you can provide data that contradicts this.

As to research and beliefs about the bible, these have changed a lot. The fundamental movement (and all the cults it spawned from about 1850 to 1920) developed their own (unsupported) ideas about the bible (e.g. literalism, word of god,....). Historic research has been going the opposite direction and has shown that literalism was never intended and much of the bible is metaphor, traditions, and teaching stories. Fundamentalism insists (without data) that the professed authors of books are their actual authors (often without supporting evidence IN THE BOOK!). Actual research shows that most of the books of the bible were written well after the time of their alleged authors.

Religious books are often cited by other religious books and even secular writings. If you can date the newer work then you know the work being cited is older. There are no citations of the Pentateuch till over 500 years after Moses allegedly lived.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110488 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What would have to unavoidably remain in the desert 3500 years later? Has anything been found there from that timeframe as a precedent?

Your kidding, right.

You think there are no bronze age finds from that region. Seriously?

Please provide proof of lack of data from this area and time.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110489 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think Pat Robertson is a Christian? Have you evaluated him comprehensively according to the Bible?

1. He claims to be a Christian.

The only one qualified to ultimately evaluate that claim is God.

Have you evaluated the JW's comprehensively according to the Bible? They fail miserably based on objective criteria but they are good at rationalization (to themselves, no one else buys this crud).

What makes you think that JW's are Christian?
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#110490 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting that you didn't explain what was bad about the analogy. That would be called making application of the data.
Meanwhile, as long as it's possible that Moses wrote the Pentateuch, that's sufficient for now.
It's also possible that I wrote it.
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#110491 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The lack of Egyptian records of the humiliation suffered by them is in keeping with customary ancient Egyptian handling of such matters. For the Exodus to have been the only humiliation purportedly recorded by them would have been suspicious don't you think?
Why wouldn't anybody anywhere else have ever mentioned anything about such a massive escape of slaves from one of the world's superpowers?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110492 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Astronomy
Cosmologogy
Astrophysics
Geology
Physics
For starters you have 5 whole fields of science to contend with.
Let me know when you have some data. Till then yours is just an assertion.
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.b...
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9509115
I looked at science format of Krauss paper.
12.3? 10^9 upto 14.56 10^9 which is however a constraint.
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#110493 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you admit you signed Bill Clinton's name, the presence of the name would not be evidence that he wrote it. If your admission survived along with the document, historians would not treat the presence of the name as evidence of Bill Clinton's authorship unless there was a dispute over your admission. If, on the other hand, a document was discovered which attributed itself to Bill Clinton, without your precondition, and without confirmation that it was written by someone else, then the presence of his name would be one piece of the data related to authorship of the document.
Why would you break the fourth wall in a hypothetical situation? You never fail to fail.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Yuhuan, China

#110494 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
What makes you think Pat Robertson is a Christian? Have you evaluated him comprehensively according to the Bible?
So you're going to the pull the no-true-Scotsman ploy?
Ernst Haekel is embarrassing to Evolutionists.
Will you allow us to say that he wasn't a true Evolutionist?
KAB

United States

#110495 Feb 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're getting it.... but you disappoint me, a lot. You didn't even Google the Necronomicon, and that's sad. It's not even a real book, but there are some people as insane as you who think Lovecraft was a prophet, the beginnings of a new religion likely, and just like your bible, the Necronomicon will be compiled as a real book eventually and everyone who believes will believe it's written by the Mad Arab.
Googling Necronomicon was not necessary. It would have been a waste of time as you now confirm. I will leave such to you.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#110496 Feb 19, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Genesis chapter one is in complete harmony with physical data, so the Darwin crowd must not have a thorough knowledge of it, or they would know this. Before you suggest/demand that I provide confirming data that every point in the Genesis account harmonizes with all physical data, I remind you that the rational and much less daunting approach is to provide data confirming any one point out of harmony. I would do it, except I don't know of any. The ball's in your court.
I would remind you that the glaring errors of Genesis have been belabored innumerable times, but clearly you have far more invested in defending faith than in objective reasoning. Your "reality" is not a physical reality and Genesis is not in harmony with anything but church hymnals.
KAB

United States

#110497 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
One piece of bad data. Like the autobiography of Lincoln I am writing.
It's all that's been provided so far. You're welcome to provide additional. Don't waste your time on Lincoln's auto. When I told him you were writing it, even Bob said he wouldn't read it, and you know how much he admires you!
KAB

United States

#110498 Feb 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
OMG! LOL. You don't have the 1st CLUE.
The earliest COPY of old testament books are from 250 b.c. Hundreds of years after the originals were written.
If we read a book today that was written in middle English it can be dated to when other similar works were written. We DON'T assume that it was written in Old English first then updated, unless we have evidence for that. This is ONE of the ways old writings are dated.
So the books of the Pentateuch are dated as much as 1,000 years after Moses. They show evidence of dozens of "authors" (editors/redactors). Newer books reference older books but (obviously) not vice-verse. They are written in the writing style and language version of the time. Etc...etc...etc.
Did I mention that the "Bible" writings were much copied thru time? Since they were regularly used "living" documents, it would be reasonable to also expect appropriate language updates along the way. BTW, are you still using the KJV?

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