It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 143951 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

KAB

United States

#110290 Feb 15, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't know what quote mining is, or you're denying it so you can keep using this type of lie. It is a lie, because you are misrepresenting the quote to make your fallacious points.
If it's a misrepresentation then you can explain how/what I misrepresented. In doing so, please quote me to make your point. Otherwise, whatever you attribute to me will actually be you misrepresenting the author(s) and me.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#110291 Feb 15, 2013
MAAT wrote:
I wonder if TR allready has argumentum ad ignoram in his list.
I sure do.
Paleontologists have not been able to find an ancestor for the pteranodon.
On page 429 of Science and Earth History,
Strahler admits this.
On pages 66-67 of the 1976 publication of Evolution: The fossils Say NO, Duane Gish wrote, "They did not evolve--they were created."
KAB

United States

#110292 Feb 15, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you chose a creationist number, and then you prove that creationism has nothing scientific, in science you don't make up numbers like that.
According to that data, can the correct answer not be 4500, or if you prefer, can it only be 10,000?
KAB

United States

#110293 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, she understood it just fine. Dr's are inherently more objective than the patient who has been given bad news.
When did you embrace objectivity or do you believe that you are seriously objective???
OK, she made the decision knowing it would kill her. She has that freedom. So, how were you using her to make a point?
KAB

United States

#110294 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Science is a series of successive approximations. Based on all the data 10,000 is a better answer.
I agree that given that we don't know what the correct answer is and based on the data given, the better answer is 10,000. It's a simple matter of a probability calculation.
KAB

United States

#110295 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Quote-mining is specifically quoting something out of larger context so it appears to be saying something that is not.
Is is not hard to find a specific quote in even a large article using search function.
I only used the quote to state directly what it stated, nothing more.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110296 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So provide some connected data (i.e., connect the dots).
Let's first repeat Dogen.

KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you suggest calling attention to a specific quote, by just citing an entire article? That's not very considerate of those who then must find it for themselves.

Dogen wrote in response: Quote-mining is specifically quoting something out of larger context so it appears to be saying something that is not.

Is is not hard to find a specific quote in even a large article using search function.

---
I'm working on a review of the entire ancient history of the ancient near east. For a good 20 years now, on and of.
Your petty question shows you have no idea of the amount of diverse material i had to go trough, the languages i had to get an understanding of (Luvian f.i. has only been properly analysed in 2008) to not misrepresent them and in general how to avoid circular reasoning or quote-mining.
And where do you get experts on black pottery or their articles?

But KAB nothing stops you from reading up.
So no you are not geting a wrapped-up short.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110297 Feb 15, 2013
Sumerian superfaq
http://www.sumerian.org/sumerfaq.htm

And then you have to make inroads into that.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#110298 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reference, but there's no data there for Sumerian culture at its height 6000 years ago (4500 maybe).
Beats me why you can't look this stuff up yourself...

NEWS Science & Technology Year In Review 2009 ISSUE 4551 Dec 15, 2009

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

"Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.

According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumeriansthe first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and governmentwere working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.

"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying,'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying,'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."

"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."

Historians believe that, immediately following the biblical event, Sumerian witnesses returned to the city of Eridu, a bustling metropolis built 1,500 years before God called for the appearance of dry land, to discuss the new development. According to records, Sumerian farmers, priests, and civic administrators were not only befuddled, but also took issue with the face of God moving across the water, saying that He scared away those who were traveling to Mesopotamia to participate in their vast and intricate trade system.

Moreover, the Sumerians were taken aback by the creation of the same animals and herb-yielding seeds that they had been domesticating and cultivating for hundreds of generations.

"The Sumerian people must have found God's making of heaven and earth in the middle of their well-established society to be more of an annoyance than anything else," said Paul Helund, ancient history professor at Cornell University. "If what the pictographs indicate are true, His loud voice interrupted their ancient prayer rituals for an entire week."

According to the cuneiform tablets, Sumerians found God's most puzzling act to be the creation from dust of the first two human beings.

"These two people made in his image do not know how to communicate, lack skills in both mathematics and farming, and have the intellectual capacity of an infant," one Sumerian philosopher wrote. "They must be the creation of a complete idiot."
- The Onion.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#110299 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that given that we don't know what the correct answer is and based on the data given, the better answer is 10,000. It's a simple matter of a probability calculation.
Oh, as in Ussher and the Bible are "probably" wrong?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110300 Feb 15, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's first repeat Dogen.
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you suggest calling attention to a specific quote, by just citing an entire article? That's not very considerate of those who then must find it for themselves.
Dogen wrote in response: Quote-mining is specifically quoting something out of larger context so it appears to be saying something that is not.
Is is not hard to find a specific quote in even a large article using search function.
---
I'm working on a review of the entire ancient history of the ancient near east. For a good 20 years now, on and of.
Your petty question shows you have no idea of the amount of diverse material i had to go trough, the languages i had to get an understanding of (Luvian f.i. has only been properly analysed in 2008) to not misrepresent them and in general how to avoid circular reasoning or quote-mining.
And where do you get experts on black pottery or their articles?
But KAB nothing stops you from reading up.
So no you are not geting a wrapped-up short.
By your own accounting you represent a potentially valuable resource to this effort. Please start providing data references with each item in your steady stream of assertions. Unconfirmed, the assertions are worthless. Organizing your thoughts rather than spewing them out randomly would also be an immense help. Your trademark style could make one think you were getting wrapped up in your shorts!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110301 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reference, but there's no data there for Sumerian culture at its height 6000 years ago (4500 maybe).

The sumerian culture was basically OVER 4500 years ago.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110302 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
According to that data, can the correct answer not be 4500, or if you prefer, can it only be 10,000?

Correct answer? Data is indicative not definitive. That is the nature of data. Unless you know everything about everything then that is just the way it is. Therefore there is no "correct answer". The data, in summation (which is proper use of data) indicates 10,000 years. Any other answer would be throwing away data.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#110303 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, she made the decision knowing it would kill her. She has that freedom. So, how were you using her to make a point?

She, like you, picked the opinion she like the best, even though it was not the best.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110304 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Beats me why you can't look this stuff up yourself...
NEWS Science & Technology Year In Review 2009 ISSUE 4551 Dec 15, 2009
Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World
"Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.
According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumeriansthe first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and governmentwere working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.
"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying,'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying,'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."
"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."
Historians believe that, immediately following the biblical event, Sumerian witnesses returned to the city of Eridu, a bustling metropolis built 1,500 years before God called for the appearance of dry land, to discuss the new development. According to records, Sumerian farmers, priests, and civic administrators were not only befuddled, but also took issue with the face of God moving across the water, saying that He scared away those who were traveling to Mesopotamia to participate in their vast and intricate trade system.
Moreover, the Sumerians were taken aback by the creation of the same animals and herb-yielding seeds that they had been domesticating and cultivating for hundreds of generations.
"The Sumerian people must have found God's making of heaven and earth in the middle of their well-established society to be more of an annoyance than anything else," said Paul Helund, ancient history professor at Cornell University. "If what the pictographs indicate are true, His loud voice interrupted their ancient prayer rituals for an entire week."
According to the cuneiform tablets, Sumerians found God's most puzzling act to be the creation from dust of the first two human beings.
"These two people made in his image do not know how to communicate, lack skills in both mathematics and farming, and have the intellectual capacity of an infant," one Sumerian philosopher wrote. "They must be the creation of a complete idiot."
- The Onion.
Thanks for the reference. It's good exercise for you pursuant to beneficial pattern building. But alas, still no dating data. At least now you're providing references. Now if we can only get you to select worthwhile ones, you'll be positioned to make a valuable contribution.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110305 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, as in Ussher and the Bible are "probably" wrong?
Ussher is most certainly probably wrong, but not the Bible.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110306 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
The sumerian culture was basically OVER 4500 years ago.
You must not have visited the British Museum site since most of the artifacts there were dated to about 4500 years ago.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110307 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct answer? Data is indicative not definitive. That is the nature of data. Unless you know everything about everything then that is just the way it is. Therefore there is no "correct answer". The data, in summation (which is proper use of data) indicates 10,000 years. Any other answer would be throwing away data.
It's sufficient for now that we agree the actual bottleneck time could have been 4500 years ago. As you note, that's the nature of the data.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#110308 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
She, like you, picked the opinion she like the best, even though it was not the best.
She may have liked her choice the best, but as you've told the story, she knew it was not the best course for her immediate health.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#110309 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Ussher is most certainly probably wrong, but not the Bible.
So, the timeline Ussher came up with, which you agree with, is wrong, but the Bible, whose timeline you say is most certainly probably wrong, is not wrong.

Fascinating.

4 is 4, but 4 is definitely not 4. Thanks for being a master bullshit artist.

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