It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 164696 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#110298 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reference, but there's no data there for Sumerian culture at its height 6000 years ago (4500 maybe).
Beats me why you can't look this stuff up yourself...

NEWS • Science & Technology • Year In Review 2009 • ISSUE 45•51 • Dec 15, 2009

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World

"Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.

According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumerians—the first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and government—were working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.

"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying,'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying,'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."

"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."

Historians believe that, immediately following the biblical event, Sumerian witnesses returned to the city of Eridu, a bustling metropolis built 1,500 years before God called for the appearance of dry land, to discuss the new development. According to records, Sumerian farmers, priests, and civic administrators were not only befuddled, but also took issue with the face of God moving across the water, saying that He scared away those who were traveling to Mesopotamia to participate in their vast and intricate trade system.

Moreover, the Sumerians were taken aback by the creation of the same animals and herb-yielding seeds that they had been domesticating and cultivating for hundreds of generations.

"The Sumerian people must have found God's making of heaven and earth in the middle of their well-established society to be more of an annoyance than anything else," said Paul Helund, ancient history professor at Cornell University. "If what the pictographs indicate are true, His loud voice interrupted their ancient prayer rituals for an entire week."

According to the cuneiform tablets, Sumerians found God's most puzzling act to be the creation from dust of the first two human beings.

"These two people made in his image do not know how to communicate, lack skills in both mathematics and farming, and have the intellectual capacity of an infant," one Sumerian philosopher wrote. "They must be the creation of a complete idiot."
- The Onion.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#110299 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that given that we don't know what the correct answer is and based on the data given, the better answer is 10,000. It's a simple matter of a probability calculation.
Oh, as in Ussher and the Bible are "probably" wrong?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110300 Feb 15, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's first repeat Dogen.
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you suggest calling attention to a specific quote, by just citing an entire article? That's not very considerate of those who then must find it for themselves.
Dogen wrote in response: Quote-mining is specifically quoting something out of larger context so it appears to be saying something that is not.
Is is not hard to find a specific quote in even a large article using search function.
---
I'm working on a review of the entire ancient history of the ancient near east. For a good 20 years now, on and of.
Your petty question shows you have no idea of the amount of diverse material i had to go trough, the languages i had to get an understanding of (Luvian f.i. has only been properly analysed in 2008) to not misrepresent them and in general how to avoid circular reasoning or quote-mining.
And where do you get experts on black pottery or their articles?
But KAB nothing stops you from reading up.
So no you are not geting a wrapped-up short.
By your own accounting you represent a potentially valuable resource to this effort. Please start providing data references with each item in your steady stream of assertions. Unconfirmed, the assertions are worthless. Organizing your thoughts rather than spewing them out randomly would also be an immense help. Your trademark style could make one think you were getting wrapped up in your shorts!

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110301 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the reference, but there's no data there for Sumerian culture at its height 6000 years ago (4500 maybe).

The sumerian culture was basically OVER 4500 years ago.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110302 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
According to that data, can the correct answer not be 4500, or if you prefer, can it only be 10,000?

Correct answer? Data is indicative not definitive. That is the nature of data. Unless you know everything about everything then that is just the way it is. Therefore there is no "correct answer". The data, in summation (which is proper use of data) indicates 10,000 years. Any other answer would be throwing away data.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#110303 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, she made the decision knowing it would kill her. She has that freedom. So, how were you using her to make a point?

She, like you, picked the opinion she like the best, even though it was not the best.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110304 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Beats me why you can't look this stuff up yourself...
NEWS • Science & Technology • Year In Review 2009 • ISSUE 45•51 • Dec 15, 2009
Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World
"Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.
According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumerians—the first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and government—were working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.
"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying,'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying,'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."
"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."
Historians believe that, immediately following the biblical event, Sumerian witnesses returned to the city of Eridu, a bustling metropolis built 1,500 years before God called for the appearance of dry land, to discuss the new development. According to records, Sumerian farmers, priests, and civic administrators were not only befuddled, but also took issue with the face of God moving across the water, saying that He scared away those who were traveling to Mesopotamia to participate in their vast and intricate trade system.
Moreover, the Sumerians were taken aback by the creation of the same animals and herb-yielding seeds that they had been domesticating and cultivating for hundreds of generations.
"The Sumerian people must have found God's making of heaven and earth in the middle of their well-established society to be more of an annoyance than anything else," said Paul Helund, ancient history professor at Cornell University. "If what the pictographs indicate are true, His loud voice interrupted their ancient prayer rituals for an entire week."
According to the cuneiform tablets, Sumerians found God's most puzzling act to be the creation from dust of the first two human beings.
"These two people made in his image do not know how to communicate, lack skills in both mathematics and farming, and have the intellectual capacity of an infant," one Sumerian philosopher wrote. "They must be the creation of a complete idiot."
- The Onion.
Thanks for the reference. It's good exercise for you pursuant to beneficial pattern building. But alas, still no dating data. At least now you're providing references. Now if we can only get you to select worthwhile ones, you'll be positioned to make a valuable contribution.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110305 Feb 15, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, as in Ussher and the Bible are "probably" wrong?
Ussher is most certainly probably wrong, but not the Bible.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110306 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
The sumerian culture was basically OVER 4500 years ago.
You must not have visited the British Museum site since most of the artifacts there were dated to about 4500 years ago.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110307 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct answer? Data is indicative not definitive. That is the nature of data. Unless you know everything about everything then that is just the way it is. Therefore there is no "correct answer". The data, in summation (which is proper use of data) indicates 10,000 years. Any other answer would be throwing away data.
It's sufficient for now that we agree the actual bottleneck time could have been 4500 years ago. As you note, that's the nature of the data.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110308 Feb 15, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
She, like you, picked the opinion she like the best, even though it was not the best.
She may have liked her choice the best, but as you've told the story, she knew it was not the best course for her immediate health.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#110309 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Ussher is most certainly probably wrong, but not the Bible.
So, the timeline Ussher came up with, which you agree with, is wrong, but the Bible, whose timeline you say is most certainly probably wrong, is not wrong.

Fascinating.

4 is 4, but 4 is definitely not 4. Thanks for being a master bullshit artist.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#110310 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's sufficient for now that we agree the actual bottleneck time could have been 4500 years ago. As you note, that's the nature of the data.
Yes, it could have been. Or, it could have been 20,000 years ago. 4500 years ago isn't equally likely as any of the other listed values. You can't discard methodology to satisfy your confirmation bias. You do realize that, right?
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110311 Feb 15, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, the timeline Ussher came up with, which you agree with, is wrong, but the Bible, whose timeline you say is most certainly probably wrong, is not wrong.
Fascinating.
4 is 4, but 4 is definitely not 4. Thanks for being a master bullshit artist.
Ussher gave his understanding of Bible chronology. A lot of discovery has gone under the bridge since then. The best understanding obtainable today is not exactly the same as his. Yes Virginia, 4 is 4, but 4 is definitely not 3. No thanks for continuing to lack ability to discern legitimate possibilities.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#110312 Feb 15, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it could have been. Or, it could have been 20,000 years ago. 4500 years ago isn't equally likely as any of the other listed values. You can't discard methodology to satisfy your confirmation bias. You do realize that, right?
Yes I do. That's why I haven't stated that it couldn't have been 10,000 years ago.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#110313 Feb 15, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You must not have visited the British Museum site since most of the artifacts there were dated to about 4500 years ago.
They STILL haven't changed those tags?...shame on them.

Go to a modern well kept museum such as the Smithsonian--you'll be amazed.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#110314 Feb 16, 2013
KAB wrote:
It's sufficient for now that we agree the actual bottleneck time could have been 4500 years ago.
Who is "we"?
You and who else?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110315 Feb 16, 2013
Right on we go with a.o. Astour. The semite hurrian connection.)In a thesis dissertation on the original turf of Kurdistan.

Astour,“Les Hourrites…,” p. 3. The names of two Ebla months are derived from the deities Adamma and
Aštabi, who were once considered Hurrian deities. However, recent studies show that these, and even ›epat and
Iš‹ara, were Syrian deities adopted by the Hurrians, cf. Wilhelm,“L’état actuel et …,” Amurru, I, p. 177. For the
Semitic origins of the divine names Adamma and Aštabil (instead of Aštabi) cf. Pomponio, F. and P. Xella, Les
dieux d’Ebla,études analytique des divintés Éblaïtes à l’epoque des archives royales de IIIe millénaire,
Münster, 1997, p. 15; 76. But because the form A-da-ma-ku-ni occurs in Kaneš in the 19th or 18th century BC and
the later form A-dam-Ma-li-e from Alala‹ from 15th-14th century, attaching the Hattian element Maliya also
attested in Kaniš, Adamma could belong to an old substratum of Asia Minor but later Semitized according to
Lipi&#324;ski: Lipi&#324;ski, E., Resheph, A Syro-Canaanite Deity, Leuven, 2009, p. 52. The suffix –kuni belongs
according to Laroche to a “submerged Anatolian language of unknown origin,” Lipi&#324;ski, ibid.(referring to
Laroche, E., Les noms des Hittites, Paris, 1966, p. 48, no. 197). But this suffix is common among the Hurrian
PNs, as explained above in discussing the PN Š/Satarguni (see above). For Archi both Adamma and Aštabi(l),
together with Iš‹ara, are among the substrate deities: Archi, A.,“Divinités sémitiques et divinités de substrat, le
cas d’Iš‹ara et d’Ištar à Ebla,” MARI 7, Paris, 1993, p. 72; Archi, A.,“Substrate: Some Remarks on the
Formation of the West Hurrian Pantheon,” Hittite and other Anatolian and Near Eastern Studies in Honour of
Sedat Alp, eds. H. Otten, E. Akurgal, H. Ertem and A. Süel, Ankara, 1992, p. 10-11.

ari ara there is, or such a form of ´be. Have to check. Give. Though all cuneiform and called Akkadian they do differ a bit in meaning.
The old dialect could be Luvite given the period studied 2500 to 1500 BC. But on the cusp of changing to modern Luvian hittite, and 1000 BC babylonian is also used to get to some translations.

kuni would seem to imply turf-people-tribe according to the Luvian linguistic study.

https://docs.google.com/viewer ...

So gods replacing gods or being forgotten, or coming back in different forms, happens al the time.
The onion is good but reality can presumably beat it.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110316 Feb 16, 2013

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#110317 Feb 16, 2013
So maybe Eusebius unbeknownst to himself was entirely right in stating that 108 CE )some churchfathers mentioned dying')was really 2124 AA.
Anno Adam.
The god Adam that is

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