It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

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Since: Mar 12

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#109975 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>It is not the same process. We have observed small scale change, but there is no reason to think that it will lead to a totally different creature. It is even laughable to me to even think that it could. You are assuming it can and science is not about assumptions.
Really, the opposite is true. Given the amount of change we can see through both natural and artificial selection in historical timescales, and given the environmental instability evident in the last several hundred million years, it would be very surprising if we did NOT see adaptations accumulate to the point where creatures were "totally different".

But then what does "totally different" mean anyway? You are not totally different from a chimpanzee, you are by any measure only slightly different. You are only slightly more different from a cat. Same basic body plan, organs, functions. You are a bit more different from a crab, but that is in the body plan. At the cellular level you are amazingly similar.

There is no "totally different" life on Earth when you look closely. Its all degrees of similarity.

Assumptions? Well, initially, it all might have looked like an assumption. But then scientists went out and said, now if this assumption is TRUE, what would we expect? And if it is FALSE, what would we expect.

And what they found is that the evidence was aligned to the "assumption" being true, turning this hypothesis into an accepted scientific theory.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

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#109976 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Saying that scientists corrected hoaxes is the same as saying politicians fixed the economy. THey were the ones that wrecked it to start with.
Science corrects itself by a process known well enough by you, by now.

However, you creationists do love to make arguments in the STYLE of politicians. Any good sound bite will do, any quote mine, any misrepresentation, if you think it will go over with your target audience.

In fact, your statement above is exactly such a political, rather than a rationally defensible, soundbite. Stop kissing babies and start arguing rationally, if you can!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109977 Feb 8, 2013
Science literacy is a vaccine against the charlatans of the world that would exploit your ignorance.
Niel deGrasse Tyson

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109978 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Saying that scientists corrected hoaxes is the same as saying politicians fixed the economy. THey were the ones that wrecked it to start with.

This represents misunderstandings of both science and economics.

Do you really think politicians wrecked the economy? If so, which ones?

You need to take a class on macro economics just as bad as you need a science class.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#109979 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>What in the world are you talking about? I believe the gospel of John was written a day or two before the 1930's.

I believe he was indicating your view on things is out of date.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109980 Feb 8, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Such a doofus. Look at the FIRST POST. Clearly the author was referring to the Scopes trial.
I don't give a rat's patoot what you BELIEVE about the Gospel of John. You can "BELIEVE" that the moon is made of green cheese - and that would also be completely irrelevant to the topic. It is claimed that "It's the Darwinist crowd that lacks the facts in the evolution debate" - so provide those FACTS, and stop wasting time with fallacies, fantasies, falsehoods, folderol and FAITH.

He can't. He has been trying for years and can't come up with a single thing. He mixes pseudoscience with a bunch of philosophical assumptions and invents his world view.

If you bust him down enough he will stop posting to you. He has done it to me several times. It is pure bliss knowing I have destroyed him so completely.




marksman11

Asheville, NC

#109981 Feb 8, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
So you can't come up with anything intelligent to say so you simply puke this. Well done.
Hard to refute the truth, to bad you can't. It was a wonderful example and made my point perfectly.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109982 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Hard to refute the truth, to bad you can't. It was a wonderful example and made my point perfectly.

You even defend your own jibber jabber.

You can put up any science so you wax philosophically..... about crap.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#109983 Feb 8, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Science corrects itself by a process known well enough by you, by now.
However, you creationists do love to make arguments in the STYLE of politicians. Any good sound bite will do, any quote mine, any misrepresentation, if you think it will go over with your target audience.
In fact, your statement above is exactly such a political, rather than a rationally defensible, soundbite. Stop kissing babies and start arguing rationally, if you can!
I ALWAYS give ration replies, often with 2 or 3 points to confirm it. My political comparison was perfect for the point I was making. And if anyone draws on politics for their servival, it's Darwinists. "Oh please MR ACLU lawyer, please make a church/state issue out of this case because we don't have the science to win without it!!!"
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#109984 Feb 8, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, the opposite is true. Given the amount of change we can see through both natural and artificial selection in historical timescales, and given the environmental instability evident in the last several hundred million years, it would be very surprising if we did NOT see adaptations accumulate to the point where creatures were "totally different".
But then what does "totally different" mean anyway? You are not totally different from a chimpanzee, you are by any measure only slightly different. You are only slightly more different from a cat. Same basic body plan, organs, functions. You are a bit more different from a crab, but that is in the body plan. At the cellular level you are amazingly similar.
There is no "totally different" life on Earth when you look closely. Its all degrees of similarity.
Assumptions? Well, initially, it all might have looked like an assumption. But then scientists went out and said, now if this assumption is TRUE, what would we expect? And if it is FALSE, what would we expect.
And what they found is that the evidence was aligned to the "assumption" being true, turning this hypothesis into an accepted scientific theory.
That is all just BS word games. A platypus has 4 legs, 2 eyes....etc. But we are totally different. Why can't you just face it...EVOLUTION JUST DOESN'T WORK!!! Look at the origin of life. TO have life all the amino acids have to be left handed, and chemistry says their is no reaction to cause only left handed amino acids to congregate. That in a pre-biotic soup, the mixure of left and right handed amino acids could never randomly accumulate so only the left handed ones could bond to form proteins. The DNA has to form in such a way as to supply information. How does random chemical processes do this with out intelligence? And if the "magic" of evolution is found to be impossible to cause the origin of life, how in the heck to do think it would work biologically? It has never been observed, we can't force it to happen by experiment, the science of life's origin is against you and shows that an intelligent designer is not only needed, but demanded........etc. Your philosophy is based on an unseen fantasy that you can only accept in faith, and yet not honest enough to even admit that!!!
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#109985 Feb 8, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Hoaxes to start with? Do the words sheep herder and Creator of the Universe ring any bells?
Yes, it reminds me of how ignorant you guys are of christianity?
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#109986 Feb 8, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Such a doofus. Look at the FIRST POST. Clearly the author was referring to the Scopes trial.
I don't give a rat's patoot what you BELIEVE about the Gospel of John. You can "BELIEVE" that the moon is made of green cheese - and that would also be completely irrelevant to the topic. It is claimed that "It's the Darwinist crowd that lacks the facts in the evolution debate" - so provide those FACTS, and stop wasting time with fallacies, fantasies, falsehoods, folderol and FAITH.
(shakes head) I have for over a 100,000 post thread. Where have you been for the last 3 years?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109987 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I ALWAYS give ration replies, often with 2 or 3 points to confirm it. My political comparison was perfect for the point I was making. And if anyone draws on politics for their servival, it's Darwinists. "Oh please MR ACLU lawyer, please make a church/state issue out of this case because we don't have the science to win without it!!!"

The science is never the issue. If it was it would never even get into the courts. Creationism/ID has zero supporting evidence. Creation/IDism has NO scientific theory. Creation/IDism makes no predictions. Creation/IDism is not falsifiable. Creation/IDism has no research. No research cannot be replicated. Creation/IDism fails the principle of parsimony. Creation/IDism fails the Law of Biogenesis.

Creation/IDism is religion and is only supported by adherents of a limited number of Christian and Muslim denominations.

Period.

I still own you.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#109988 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>That is all just BS word games. A platypus has 4 legs, 2 eyes....etc. But we are totally different.


This is just BS word games. We are much more similar than different. Genetically, morphologically,....
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> Why can't you just face it...EVOLUTION JUST DOESN'T WORK!!!


Evolution is an observed fact, so obviously it works. Period.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> Look at the origin of life. TO have life all the amino acids have to be left handed, and chemistry says their is no reaction to cause only left handed amino acids to congregate. That in a pre-biotic soup, the mixure of left and right handed amino acids could never randomly accumulate so only the left handed ones could bond to form proteins. The DNA has to form in such a way as to supply information. How does random chemical processes do this with out intelligence? And if the "magic" of evolution is found to be impossible to cause the origin of life, how in the heck to do think it would work biologically?


You can add a thousand things to this nonsense and it is still nonsense. Evolution is an established fact and the ToE is the ONLY scientific explanation for evolution as it is actually observed.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> It has never been observed, we can't force it to happen by experiment, the science of life's origin is against you and shows that an intelligent designer is not only needed, but demanded........etc.


ID is just creationism in creationism clothing but with a different name tag on its lapel. There is no evidence (zero) for active intervention in the formation of life. Such intervention appears completely unnecessary and there is no evidence for such.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> Your philosophy is based on an unseen fantasy that you can only accept in faith, and yet not honest enough to even admit that!!!

Your philosophy is based on an unseen fantasy that you can only accept in faith, and yet not honest enough to even admit that!!!

Refutation by Dogen.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109989 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, it reminds me of how ignorant you guys are of christianity?

I have hardly been impressed by your "knowledge" of Christianity. You know NOTHING of early Christianity to include, but not limited to, early Christian culture, beliefs, politics, customs and divisions.

Name, compare and contrast the four primary Christian groups from around 200 a.d.

Use no references other than your memory.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109990 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>(shakes head) I have for over a 100,000 post thread. Where have you been for the last 3 years?

You mean you have FAILED to do that successfully EVEN ONCE in the last 100,000 posts.

You have FAILED to prove "It's the Darwinist crowd that lacks the facts in the evolution debate"

You have FAILED to provide those FACTS

You have FAILED to stop wasting time with fallacies, fantasies, falsehoods, folderol and FAITH!

Simply put, you have failed.

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

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#109991 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Red herring. I don't even read discovery, the quotes I presented came from Eugenie Scootts own book. So sorry for quote mining the original source. Also, it was ridiculous to post that site to start with. It was sickenly biased. THe closing words were...
"And so, class, what have we learned from this?[Hands go up.] Okay, altogether now: Creationism is a bottomless pit of slime."
Quote mine that!
The article/work you quoted from, was actually bases on a television interview she gave.
The it was twisted and interpretations added..but as usually in such a way that it looked as if Eugenie Scott had stated them
The link i gave analyses and dissects, how your dishonest brethren did it.

Jesus (nametitle) as yhwh is not the normal vigorating idea among believers.
Psalm 82 is usally invoked to mitigate the later confusion, since none could actualy work out how the writers of early theology like John had reasoned.(After also getting rid of 15th century insertions of jesus being god.)

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#109992 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, it reminds me of how ignorant you guys are of christianity?
Oddly, polls have shown the opposite. But knowledge of the Bible is neither here nor there, since you have accepted the onus of providing ADDITIONAL FACTS of evolution (not scripture) for "the Darwin crowd.".

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

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#109993 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>They may need that in France. We don't need that here. It is not a problem.<quoted text>Fine, I'll be glad for the church to pay taxes, but lets get prayer back in school, and evolution out, then we'll meet you at the tax office. Don't forget to check out our new Nativity Scene as you come in.
You don't want seperation! But you do need it.

I do not see how at east paying for a clean environment and raods to get people to your church, should only be payed by everybody else.
But in your argument you set yourself apart, so again your argument is about your selfish wants, and not what kids should actually have knowledge of.

All church/state seperated states have kids that learn their religion at home or a bibleclass.
Call it extra-ccurricular activity.
And in schools they would learn about religion, theology and in general how people deal with society and from what points of view and how that effects the total picture.

Simplistic bible-thumping is frankly never ever going to happen.
Unless people have their own school, and then people in general wonder why others should pay for that, since it does not benefit society in general. If you want to be apart from society then society should not pay for your excess.
Whether you are a fundie-christian or a soccer-vandal.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#109994 Feb 8, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>(shakes head) I have for over a 100,000 post thread. Where have you been for the last 3 years?
Yes, you must be so proud - and one can only guess how many times have you been asked to stop wasting everyone's time with faith-based prattle.

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