It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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107,561 - 107,580 of 136,274 Comments Last updated 33 min ago

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109607 Feb 1, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>So you are agreeing with me that we don't know who built the Great Pyramid?

We don't actually know the names of the laborers, but we know who commissioned it. It was designed by Imhotep and Hemiunu (actually by Hemiunu based on Imhotep's earlier designs).

While you will refuse to read factual historical material, here is the link if anyone else is interested.

http://www.hitchins.net/Books&samplers/HD...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109608 Feb 1, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Then PLEASSSSSSE TELL ME why you dummys changed your story from we evolved from apes, to "we didn't evolve from apes, but humans and apes have a common ancester"??? NOWWWWWW.....we're desended from apes....AAAGGGAAAIIInnn!!!Why do you expect people to take you seriously when you can't even be consistent and continue to change your story???<quoted text>Perhaps you should reconsider your inconsistent world view.

It is your understanding that is inconstant, not the science.

I explained this to you as recently as yesterday.

You are just too stupid.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109609 Feb 1, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
From the KAB Bullshit Dictionary:
in·con·clu·sive (nkn-klsv)
adj.
Not conclusive
Example: A global flood that destroyed all life (except for Noah & Co) which would have taken the environment hundreds if not thousands of years to recover from can not be detected unless the data has a one year resolution.
Would you expect to find a unique sediment layer of loose material washed down from the inside slopes of the hundreds of feet high walls of a meteor crater sitting on relatively flat surrounding terrain? Is that the kind of data you had in mind?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109610 Feb 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Genetic bottlenecks can be directly observed and directly confirmed. Chemical reactions are binary. They either occur or they don't, and they can be confirmed by independent agents anywhere at any time. The shape of the Earth, ultimately, is only directly observed by the scant few people who venture into space. The rest is trust in our instruments. Chemistry is direct observation of the facts. For the direct confirmation of the Earth's shape, we must rely on the scant few's say-so and pictures which we cannot ensure are accurate to the same degree we can ensure chemical reactions are accurate. In other words, chemistry trumps say-so and pictures every time.
There's more to genetic bottlenecks than chemistry.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#109611 Feb 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you expect to find a unique sediment layer of loose material washed down from the inside slopes of the hundreds of feet high walls of a meteor crater sitting on relatively flat surrounding terrain? Is that the kind of data you had in mind?

Yes, that would be proof of normal errosion and if the crater was 50,000 year old it would be proof that no massive flood occurred during the last 50,000 years.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109612 Feb 1, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I understood what you said. Makes little difference.
It makes a significant difference if I cite a specific phrase which, as far as I know, is not in the Bible, and you attempt to relate that to documentary sources which don't make any mention of an event.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109613 Feb 1, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you now accepting that Noah's flood never happened or are you just resorting to your usually language hair-splitting.
Language hair-splitting for accuracy, most definitely. When you're good with language, you appreciate it being used effectively.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109614 Feb 1, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So then it was not a miracle, just a local flood, same as many others. Good, you're slowly returning to reality.
So now you add outright stupidity to lack of reasoning, comprehension, and linguistic aptitude.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109615 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
"I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”
"all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered"
" The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[g][h] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark."
How many times does your side think it needs to prove that the expression "global flood" is not used?
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#109616 Feb 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
There's more to genetic bottlenecks than chemistry.
Actually, no. Every genetic bottleneck that has been identified is nothing more than a series of chemical reactions. You have no idea how DNA tests are done or genomes are cataloged, do you?
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#109617 Feb 1, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>You are weakened to the point of redefintions.
Fin
Manipulate
Theory
Scientific method
Hypothesis
Observe
Mathematics

Who's redefining what now?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109618 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
It is really quite simple and the error in your logic is easy to expose.
Take evolution for example: lets say there are 29 evidences for evolution and each has a 5% chance of being completely wrong. Using meta analysis we can figure the chance of evolution being wrong.
The chances are 1 in 182,645,149,230,957,031,250,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00 that evolution is wrong. And you are banking on the 1.
Your choice. But you cannot seriously blame the person who takes the 182,645,149,230,957,031,250,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00.
Seriously.
Let's say there are not 29 evidences for evolution and that, however many there are, have greater than 5% chance of being wrong. What is the number then?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109619 Feb 1, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
You provided the Bible. I did not invent it.
So you respond by inventing even more?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109620 Feb 1, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
"or it's equivalent" you said
Equivalent in another language. In other words, translation of the phrase.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109621 Feb 1, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
What you asked for:
<quoted text>
The operative phrase is: "OR ITS EQUIVALENT IN ANY LANGUAGE."
You are welcome. Now you may continue your Chubby Checker routine and we'll all applaud your rendering of the Twist.
That's a reference to translation of the phrase (i.e., "in any language").
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109622 Feb 1, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>By that criterion, the word "god" isn't used, either.
Except that the word "god" is used.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109623 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that would be proof of normal errosion and if the crater was 50,000 year old it would be proof that no massive flood occurred during the last 50,000 years.
Even if the sediment was 4500 years old rather than a steady accumulation over 50,000 years?
KAB

Oxford, NC

#109624 Feb 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, no. Every genetic bottleneck that has been identified is nothing more than a series of chemical reactions. You have no idea how DNA tests are done or genomes are cataloged, do you?
Perhaps I have a better idea than you, and you can only prove otherwise by providing some confirming data which you know I am eager to see anyway. Why do I provide and want to see data, and your side tends not to do so?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#109625 Feb 2, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
"I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”
"all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered"
" The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.[g][h] 21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark."
So gen.1 till 2:4 is a priestly text to keep believers to their temple duties.
Then we get Adam and Eve made by god, a serpent turned into a smake, a tree of life and one of wisdom.(garden near a river is more a locality the a fabrication.)
So the clayfigures get wiped out.
But Adam made figurines and named them, and together with Eve they themselves produced, and thus not YHVH. And that happened because they got the same power and were thenput in their place.
Well, i can't see head nor tails, but following along the line i set out, Adam and Eve perished but not their proginy.

I had KAB's reposte in mind whether their wasn't a way to reconcile the book in whatever translation with science.
As far as i understood,that what some translate as giants,are a local people from the mountains. Bigger built, different customs.
And the thing is that NOah, came upon them again under a slightly different name! After the flood.
A hebrew story goes that Gog held on to the ark as it sailed.
The term used for those Noah beheld giants would in arab be: people in chaines.
In the second WW Germans and Japanese were named monsters. You could compare it with that.

I always keep in mind that the book is about redemption, and what get's in the way. So these kind of parables and the wrath of god a.s.o. are just learning-stories, of the colourfull kind.
There are historic parallels. But finding some of those really depends on how we get on with translating old languages and proper dating and interpretation of archeological finds.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#109626 Feb 2, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a reference to translation of the phrase (i.e., "in any language").
English:
"...ALL THE HIGH MOUNTAINS UNDER THE ENTIRE HEAVENS WERE COVERED."
Esperanto:
"...Cxiuj altaj montoj SUB la tutan cxielon estis kovritaj."
Latvian:
"...VISI augstu kalnos, past&#257;vot piln&#299;gai debesis segtas."

KABian:
"...Come on baby let's do the twist
Come on baby let's do the twist
Take me by my little hand and go like this
Ee-oh twist baby baby twist
Oooh-yeah just like this..."

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