It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 151326 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#108171 Jan 19, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>So why is the GOD of the bible the only one you guys ever address? Why is it the only one you ever attack?
Because you "fundaMENTALshit xristian creotards" are the ONLY ones who make a big stink about the Theory of Evolution being wrong and the Earth and Cosmos only being 6000 years old. If you would just keep your LIES to yourselves, no one would give a rip about you or your "god".
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't care about other so-called gods, and evidently, you atheist types don't either.
For the simple reason that the adherents of other gods (who have EXACTLY THE SAME evidence for their existence at your "god" does) aren't so damn stupid or so very willing to share that stupidity with the rest of the world. We don't have to address or attack those other gods because their adherents don't try to force their religion on the rest of us the way you "fundaMENTALshit xristian creotards" do or claim that it has any scientific validity based in reality.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>The GOD of the bible says in Romans 1blah, blah, blah.

You battle the biblical GOD because this verse is true. You know deep inside that he exists. He put that something in you that tells you that. You deny it and it sets up a bitter struggle within your spirit. You know that he exists by what has been made. You won't admit it, but that is why you are in this group day after day. You can't get away from that "something" that GOD placed inside you.
Nice sermon. Too bad it's all lies.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>If that be true, then why can't you emperically prove it? Without a doubt? WHy can't scientists replicate it?....all they can do is interpret evidence as if it supports evolution when the truth is, it supports creation better. And you guys continue to jump the gun by puting the cart ahead of the horses by failing to deal with the origin of life by naturalistic means. If the origin of life can't evolve naturally, there is no need to think that life can, or did, either. <quoted text>I think you misjudge Moses. He met with GOD, had miraculous experiences that even changed his appearence. GOD let Moses see him from behind as he passed by. He lead millions of people, and saw GOD work miracles. Moses saw things you and I could only dream of.<quoted text>No one ever claimed Santa was the originator of life.[/QUOTE

Hate to tell you this (not really) but Moses was just as fictional a character as your precious Adam and Eve. There is NO, repeat, NO evidence (outside of your bronze age, goat herder FAIRY TALE) that Moses ever existed.

[QUOTE who="marksman11"] <quoted text>GOD did. If you want to compare fairy tales, a fairy tale says that a frog became a prince, scientists call it evolution. So see? it isn't fair to compare fairy tales to what most see as a subject of reality. Let's keep it real.
You really are clueless, aren't you? I feel so sorry for the children you come in contact with.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#108172 Jan 19, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Satans bore is not worth replying to, That is why I ignore her when she comes back with 'they said so' style waffle on a debating forum. "I am a big hero" Satans bore claims, then refutes with a quack "Maz doen't doesn't like me, but I am right because they said so. How clever is that?
I have seen no sign of her credentials and I doubt she'll go through anything with you including beak size in birds being a somatic change and most certainly not above species level. I have not got any sense out of her after about three attempts. Good luck! You'll need it!
How tragic.

I was hoping she would be different from "Pat" and "kittencodner" or whatever it is.

But what else can you expect from someone who calls themself "Satan's bore"?
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#108173 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>But the fact is that most of the Bible is written in symbolic language.
Hey "god", you may want to check with malarleyman11. He's says the Bible is "literally and inerrantly true" and you're full of sh!t
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#108174 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>... what else can you expect from someone who calls themself "Satan's bore"?
Someone who KNOWS more and LIES less than the average "fundamentalist xristian creationist".
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#108175 Jan 19, 2013
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
... He's says the Bible is "literally and inerrantly true"...
Try telling a Math professor that 2+3 is not literally equal to 5; yet 2,+, 3, 5 and = are all symbols.

God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#108176 Jan 19, 2013
MIDutch wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone who KNOWS more and LIES less than the average "fundamentalist xristian creationist".
If thats what you truly expect, you are in deep doo-doo.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#108177 Jan 19, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
But, at least Noah's flood is real, right?
Uh...yes...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ight!

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

#108178 Jan 19, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm.
Why is it that creos do NOT publish their findings?
In any reviewed credible journal, I mean?
Evo journals attest to over 150 years of published data much of which has been falsified. Publishing in evo journals does not mean 'right' or better.eg human knuckle walking ancesty, junk dna, pond soup or ocean vent etc etc.

Can you imagine those evohounds reading a paper suggesting bird footprints 212myo on Pangea support Aves thriving more than half way back to the Devonian? No, because we have to demonstrate exactly how God creates while evos do not have to demonstrate how an irreduceably complex cell organized itself, which appears to be impossible. Your claim is only a matter of scale different to mine. A living cell is not a heap less complex than a living species.

What's up? Can't find any support for a complex factory of reproduction, lipids, proteins, rna/dna complete with a fully functioning cell membrane, organizing itself?

Of course you can't. That is one reason why I am a theist.

Well I have some to support energy/light creating particles of matter.

Why do you rather have faith in an impossible scenario instead of having faith that a non organic life form that already exists has the power and knowledge to especially make organic life on earth?

Can't answer?

“I Believe in Fairy Tales”

Level 1

Since: Sep 10

Scrotum, Australia

#108179 Jan 19, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Evo journals attest to over 150 years of published data all of which has been supported by the evidence. Publishing in evo journals means it isn't safe from being challenged by morons like me.
Can you imagine me reading a paper suggesting bird footprints 212myo on Pangea that in no way supports Aves thriving more than half way back to the Devonian? I have spent months telling a lie based on a simple discovery. Because I can't demonstrate exactly how God creates or even ixists While evos demonstrate how an irreduceable complexity has never been demonstrated. Reality makes my views appears to be impossible. Your claim is only a matter of reality and are different to my lies and fantasy. I don't understand science so I will just talk a heap of cow flop with some sciency words like lipids, cell membranes, and DNA to make me look like I know what I am talking about.

Of course I can't find a man. That is one reason why I am old and lonely and post on here. Well I have some to support from the battery powered device. I like to think he is my one and only. I am just a loser and old and ugly and I fart all the time. I come on here to take my anger out on others. God hates me.

Why do you rather have faith in an impossible scenario like creation instead of having faith in facts and repeatable experiments and demonstrated results of experiments?

I can't answer because I am lonely and afraid and live a lie. Don't you think I know that?
Golly Gee Maz. You Are A Freakshow.

“I Believe in Fairy Tales”

Level 1

Since: Sep 10

Scrotum, Australia

#108180 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
If thats what you truly expect, you are in deep doo-doo.
God It Is Me Again, Maz's Friend. Why Do You Hate Her? Why Won't You Give Her A Man?
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#108181 Jan 19, 2013
Hey Hugh Dumas wrote:
<quoted text>God It Is Me Again, Maz's Friend. Why Do You Hate Her? Why Won't You Give Her A Man?
hate who, maz? I dont hate maz. Are you sure youre reading into things accurately?

If your talkin about satan's bore; I would not allow any man to suffer the ordeal of having a relationship with the devil's "bore".
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#108182 Jan 19, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Evo journals attest to over 150 years of published data much of which has been falsified. Publishing in evo journals does not mean 'right' or better.eg human knuckle walking ancesty, junk dna, pond soup or ocean vent etc etc.
Can you imagine those evohounds reading a paper suggesting bird footprints 212myo on Pangea support Aves thriving more than half way back to the Devonian? No, because we have to demonstrate exactly how God creates while evos do not have to demonstrate how an irreduceably complex cell organized itself, which appears to be impossible. Your claim is only a matter of scale different to mine. A living cell is not a heap less complex than a living species.
What's up? Can't find any support for a complex factory of reproduction, lipids, proteins, rna/dna complete with a fully functioning cell membrane, organizing itself?
Of course you can't. That is one reason why I am a theist.
Well I have some to support energy/light creating particles of matter.
Why do you rather have faith in an impossible scenario instead of having faith that a non organic life form that already exists has the power and knowledge to especially make organic life on earth?
Can't answer?
O.o

And I thought I was sarcastic.

“I Believe in Fairy Tales”

Level 1

Since: Sep 10

Scrotum, Australia

#108183 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
hate who, maz? I dont hate maz. Are you sure youre reading into things accurately?
If your talkin about satan's bore; I would not allow any man to suffer the ordeal of having a relationship with the devil's "bore".
Jamaica? You Live In Jamaica God? Can I Get Some Kine Bud From You O Lord?

I Think Maz Is Ready For Satan's Bore. I Think Maz Has A Large Enough Arena For Satan To Perform His Whole Show.

Can You Guess What I Am Doing?

“I Believe in Fairy Tales”

Level 1

Since: Sep 10

Scrotum, Australia

#108184 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
O.o
And I thought I was sarcastic.
Say It Isn't So O Lord. Thou Art Not Sarcastic For Thou Art The Way And The Truth And The Light.

Can You Keep My Man Thong From Riding Up O Lord. It Is Chafing My Taint.

“I Believe in Fairy Tales”

Level 1

Since: Sep 10

Scrotum, Australia

#108185 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
hate who, maz? I dont hate maz. Are you sure youre reading into things accurately?
If your talkin about satan's bore; I would not allow any man to suffer the ordeal of having a relationship with the devil's "bore".
God Please Put In A Good Word For Me With Maz. I Would Like Her To Cume Hang Out With Me In Scrotum? I Would Luv To Talk About You With Her. We Can Figure Out How To Spread The Truth Of Your Words With Lies And Fits Of Rage. Maybe You Could Show Up With Some Fine Jamaican Herb And We Can Do It Up Family Style.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#108186 Jan 19, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
I don't care about other so-called gods, and evidently, you atheist types don't either.

I was once in a thread in which we argued not with a Biblical fundamentalist, but with a Hare Krishna.

He believed that Krishna has a miraculous birth.
He believed that Krishna at one time cloned himself and simultaneously danced with all the cowmaidens in the countryside.
He believed that Krishna went to war driving an flying vehicle which could turn invisible and render its driver invisible.
He showed us a picture of a Hindu deity with the head of an elephant and the body of a human.
He also showed us a picture of a Hindu deity with the head of a tiger and the body of a human, ripping a sinner's guts out.
He warned us that if we didn't stop making fun of him, this deity might come and do the same to us.
You could imagine how terrified we all were.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#108187 Jan 19, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Watch to program. It provides many.
I'll start you on one...there is NO archeological evidence of the Israelites ever being in Egypt. The archeological evidence shows them to have originally been a small Canaanite hill tribe with a handful of villages.
Another...the archeological evidence of the destruction of the Canaanite cities...no Joshua. The cities were destroyed for the most part by internal rioting. And not in one generation, but over a period of several hundred years.
No Moses. No Joshua. Probably no King David. The ONLY archeological evidence of David is a later Hebrew king titled as being "of the House of David".
I reviewed the program. Typical made-for-TV format. Some pieces of data or references to such, and a lot of speculation.
Do you realize that lack of evidence doesn't prove something didn't happen? People like you used to think that Sargon never existed, based on lack of evidence outside the Bible.
LowellGuy

United States

#108188 Jan 19, 2013
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok then. Say that I am wrong about the saddam thingy.
I am a fool and a lying swine. There. You happy now?
That still doesnt change the fact that we all employ measures that we consider to be in our best interest.
So Moses was justified in saying kill witches; just like Bush is justified in saying attack those people over there. ALL OF THAT IS DONE IN THE INTEREST OF THE GROUP/NATION.
Its a human thing.
<quoted text>
"Sounds like".
<quoted text>
I sure hope that incident with abraham is not the basis of your claims that the ancient hebrews had human sacrifices.
The fact that abraham thought God would approve of a human sacrifice suggests that abraham did not comprehend the nature of the entity He identified as God.
Jephtha promised that he would sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house. That it was his daughter that first came out of his house was tragic.
I bet Jephtha would have preferred if it was a dog that came out of his house first.
God didnt demand it; it was Jephtha who swore to it.
You are quite a propagandist. LOL!
<quoted text>
???
Well, at least you were honest somewhere in there.
LowellGuy

United States

#108189 Jan 19, 2013
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
And creationists also speak to what supports their paradigm after life already happened. The reason I am talking is philosophy is because some brain dead evos can't talk science and want to try to score some delusional cheap points.
I see you are now going for babble seeing as you have nothing intelligent or scienticis to say, which has been the case for a while.
If the beginning is not important and you want to hide behind this, then you must never ask 'how God created? or 'prove God' which evos persistently do? When you do I go to abiogenesis and your faith, and then you hide behind TOE being after abiogenesis and so the circle goes around with evos chasing their tails....
As ChromiuMan states "Beginnings require a 'first cause'..."
I am done with having to support my interpretation of the data re fossil evidence as it is as unfalsifiable as mythical theropods that you seem to think is science. If they redate the entire strata to suit the bird footprints let me know so I can laugh!.
I'd say varied tetropod footprints showing up 397mya AND displaying a foot pad is fairly destabilizing for TOE and even more uncomfortable than a reversed hallux showing up 212mya or cetacean traits in a reptile.
Now it seems some are asking about my faith, others abiogenesis and clearly you aren't making any points at all. You're just quacking for the heck of it.
A living cell is irreduceably complex. Amino acids disolve in water. Hence the latest flavour of the month is the RNA world.
If cells had really formed spontaneously, we would expect their important parts to be made of materials that form easily under natural conditions. However, not one of the four: lipids, proteins, RNA, or DNA, can be made that way at all! Amazing! Not one is formed in nature except by a living cell, yet for a cell to live, all must be there at the same time, each one doing its job..not to mention the cell membrane.
If God had wanted to shout to you that He is here, and show you proof that He created, could you find a more convincing proof for Him to use?
Let's also not forget that evos continue to chase creos because they are not prepared to discuss what facts they have because evos do not have any.
At least there is some data that light/energy can produce matter! It is easier for evos to scarper around from topic to topic, diving to philosophy to hide for a while, hoping no one notices.
What facts and observed data do you have that support your philosophy that a complex factory can arise by itself? None.
At least two DNA bases have been demonstrated to be able to form naturally outside the cell. Amino acids form outside cells. Have you ever read any legitimate science (not filtered through the "Bible is true and here's why science is bullshit" lens apologists use)?

““You must not lose faith ”

Level 5

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#108190 Jan 19, 2013
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to clarify something...
Photons do NOT have mass, though they do have momentum. They are massless. One indication of this is that only massless particles can travel AT the speed of light (as photons do).
In popular science (relativity and special relativity) you're right, and in as much as we want to rain on Mazhere's parade, nevertheless:

Is there any experimental evidence that the photon has zero rest mass?
Alternative theories of the photon include a term that behaves like a mass, and this gives rise to the very advanced idea of a "massive photon". If the rest mass of the photon were non-zero, the theory of quantum electrodynamics would be "in trouble" primarily through loss of gauge invariance, which would make it non-renormalisable; also, charge conservation would no longer be absolutely guaranteed, as it is if photons have zero rest mass. But regardless of what any theory might predict, it is still necessary to check this prediction by doing an experiment.

It is almost certainly impossible to do any experiment that would establish the photon rest mass to be exactly zero. The best we can hope to do is place limits on it. A non-zero rest mass would introduce a small damping factor in the inverse square Coulomb law of electrostatic forces. That means the electrostatic force would be weaker over very large distances.

Likewise, the behavior of static magnetic fields would be modified. An upper limit to the photon mass can be inferred through satellite measurements of planetary magnetic fields. The Charge Composition Explorer spacecraft was used to derive an upper limit of 6 × 10&#8722;16 eV with high certainty. This was slightly improved in 1998 by Roderic Lakes in a laboratory experiment that looked for anomalous forces on a Cavendish balance. The new limit is 7 × 10&#8722;17 eV. Studies of galactic magnetic fields suggest a much better limit of less than 3 × 10&#8722;27 eV, but there is some doubt about the validity of this method.

References:
E. Fischbach et al., Physical Review Letters 73, 514—517 25 July 1994.

Chibisov et al., Sov. Ph. Usp. 19, 624 (1976).

See also the Review of Particle Properties at http://pdg.lbl.gov

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