It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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““You must not lose faith ”

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#108092
Jan 18, 2013
 
Mazhere wrote:
My faith is based on the empirical evidence that energy, the form God is described as, can create matter and faith that HE can create organic matter because God is meant to be smarter than we.

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What empirical evidence that energy is ever described as being god? Where?
How does energy create matter?
And if smarts can create organic matter, then any creature giving birth or replicating would be god too.

just some thoughts. On what are basicly your definitions and not necessarily the way other believers define.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108093
Jan 18, 2013
 
What Mazhere is basicly saying is that god is matter and matter is smart but essentially male.

Just analysing that sentence.
And for some reason that god did not want to materialise unless everywhere around us as matter.
marksman11

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#108094
Jan 18, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say they were unrelated, numbnuts. I said evolution does depend on how life started. It could have been magic poofing, black smokers, lightning or an alien turd. It doesn't matter.
Yes it does, because if the biblical GOD is the creator, and he did it the way the bible claims, then the rest of the story is correct and evolution never happened. He created man and man never evolved from something that was non-human. So yes, the truth about the origin of man is related to human from non-human evolution. Either evolution works or it doesn't, and evolution concerning the origin of life at this moment in time appears as if it is impossible.
marksman11

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#108095
Jan 18, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Gibberish.
So if you lock a door, you have to go back and check it 6 more times before you leave? You are a strange bird, or did you just reply "gibberish" because you know I am right, hate it, and had to post "something"????
marksman11

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#108096
Jan 18, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>

Was the Miller Urey experiment successful?
No
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it was, incredibly so. Have many of the experiments run since then been successful? Again the answer is yes. Any experiment that allows us to get closer to the answer was successful.
You are not getting closer to the answer, but farther away. The more the origins of life is studied, the more extreme complexity is uncovered and the more extreme complexity, the less likely it occurred due to natural processes, making it an increasing fact that science is less qualified to ever find the answer.
marksman11

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#108097
Jan 18, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
And more gibberish.
Gibberish can be refuted, but for some reason you didn't do that. I know why. You can't.
marksman11

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#108098
Jan 18, 2013
 

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MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure you do. That's why you are so afraid to actually confront arguments that threaten your beliefs. "I take it on faith!" Blah, blah, blah.
GOD forbid that honesty be allowed into debate. Maybe you should try it, it works great for me. It has left you laying in the corner in a fetal position mumbling "gibberish".
Elohim

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#108099
Jan 18, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>GOD forbid that honesty be allowed into debate. Maybe you should try it, it works great for me. It has left you laying in the corner in a fetal position mumbling "gibberish".
LMAO!!! Quoting a bronze age book of mythology as a scientific source.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
marksman11

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#108100
Jan 18, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. There is no observable science of abiogenesis that you understand. Abiogenesis does not have to be observed in the lab for it to be a reality. We know that it happened.
Then show me. YOU CAN"T!!! You have no leg to stand on. If GOD created life, life came from a previous life and the LAw of Biogenesis has been satisfied and no spontainious generation event has ever been documented in a lab nor nature. For your "scientific views" on abiogenesis to be valid, they DEMAND A VIOLATION OF A KNOWN SCIENTIFIC LAW!!!! How inconsistent can you be????????
marksman11

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#108101
Jan 18, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It depends what you mean by "observed".
We have observed large scale differences in the fossils of many creatures, and the changes follow trend easily recognisable as fitting the pattern predicted by evolution. To avoid your abhorrence of human evolution, lets look at something less controversial, like cats.
There are no modern cat bones found in five million year old strata. However, there are creatures very similar to modern cats.
The further we go back, the less like modern cats they are.
There is nothing 5 million years ago like modern dogs either, or even wolves. But there are bones quite similar to them, and the further back we go the more different they are.
But here is the interesting part! As we go back, the cat and dog bones we find are less and less like today's cats and dogs....but more and more like each other! Until we reach a point, in strata 20-25 million years old, where those progressions MEET and we cannot say that the creature at the intersection is either a cat or a dog or BOTH.
This is the pattern repeated whether you are talking about cats and dogs or just about any other creature we have found fossils for.
The evidence is OBSERVED. Its catalogued, its carefully measured, its matched, its dated. And no explanation other than common ancestry makes a lot of sense.
That is meaningless because if you dig up the remains of a modern cat and dog of the same size, their is not that big a difference today. That does not mean they are related or have a common ancester.
marksman11

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#108102
Jan 18, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary. The more they learn, the more the natural processes required for the complex precursors to life are discovered. It used to be a mystery how amino acids, polypeptide chains, RNA, ADP, and lipid micro-spheres could form spontaneously. Now its not.
I readily admit nobody knows how or if these ingredients could combine naturally into the first proto-cell. But the more we study, the MORE likely its looking to be possible.
Sorry to disagree my friend, but the extreme complexity of life is not even close to be replicated. But here's the deal. The big debate is does GOD exist or not. Do you not ever wonder how all these things needed for life to exist, how they got here? Can you imagine the math needed to figure out the possibilities, that somehow the building blocks of life exist, "somehow" assembled themselves in such a way that they spontainiously generated into life violating the Law of Biogenesis which has never been observed violated in a lab nor nature, that eventually evolved into the most complex thing in the known universe known as the human brain with billions of interconnected electrical circuts and has the ability of self consciousness and self awareness. Do you see how really hard that is to believe that could even be a possibilty? I don't have that much faith. Fairy tails say that a frog became a prince. Scientists call it evolution.
marksman11

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#108103
Jan 18, 2013
 
Thomas Robertson wrote:
I wrote:
I didn't know there was any other kind [of stars other than cosmic stars].
What kind are they, then?
marksman11 wrote:
Angels are often symbolized and referenced in scripture as stars.
Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
your welcome. Stick with me and you'll learn things:-)
Could that explain why we see stars that are millions of lightyears away,
even though the world is only 6000 years old?
Why did you just change the subject as if my reply to you didn't clearly answer your question?
marksman11

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#108104
Jan 18, 2013
 
Thomas Robertson wrote:
I quoted MIDutch as writing:
Heck, you guys can't even demonstrate that your "god" exists, let alone that the Bible has any insight into "it's" nature or humanities relationship with "it".
I quoted marksman11 as writing:
Hummm, ya reckin that is why it is a faith based belief? Duh!!!
I wrote:
Yes, I reckon that is why it is a faith-based belief.
Would you please explain what that DOESN'T imply that it is a faith-based belief?
marksman11 wrote:
You need to word that where it is a little more understandable please.
Okay, Ill try again:
Would you please explain what your faith is based on if it is not based on faith?
In other words, what makes you say that angels, witches, and talking animals are real?
Because I don't think nature allows to know near everything that happens around us. I think due to the extreme complexity of life that nature couldn't possibly be the cause, I believe the origin of life is a supernatural event. I believe angels are messengers from GOD, I believe witches exist because they label themselves that today. I don't think they have any powers or anything, I just believe they are mixed up people with issues. I believe that animals can talk because I have heard a parrot talk and a hienna (sp?) laugh. So i have no problem taking the next step and GOD using this in a supernatural way to bring about his will or to convey a message.
marksman11

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#108105
Jan 18, 2013
 
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>LMAO!!! Quoting a bronze age book of mythology as a scientific source.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Who did that?

“Turning coffee into theorems”

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#108106
Jan 18, 2013
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Give us one specific example, kid.
Go to the PBS site and look up the NOVA episode "The Bible's Buried Secrets". Plenty of examples there.

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#108107
Jan 18, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That is an assertion, where is the evidence of all this?
This is not new science, Kitten..

A team of 20 physicists from four institutions has literally made something from nothing, creating particles of matter from ordinary light for the first time. The experiment was carried out at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) by scientists and students from the University of Rochester, Princeton University, the University of Tennessee, and Stanford.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/...

Indeed if one is to believe that all the matter in the universe was contained within a singularity, then similarly a source of energy has formed into the matter of the universe.

Energy, has been observed to produce matter. Organic matter, blood, organs and cerebral engrams are only elements in precise locations, mixed with water, and electric spark.

Now I responded with many reasons as to why I have faith and you have chosen to address one of them.

Why do you and others have faith that there is no God and life can arise out of elements or rock into complex factories of reproduction all by themselves hanging around those deep vents or organic soup pond or any other speculation?

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#108108
Jan 18, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, DS! How ya been?
Oh, doing well. Just got burned out arguing with the Markys of the world. SSDD. Over and over.

And, from what I can tell, it hasn't changed a bit.

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#108109
Jan 18, 2013
 
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
Welcome back DS! Good to see you.
'Allo,'allo.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108110
Jan 18, 2013
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not new science, Kitten..
A team of 20 physicists from four institutions has literally made something from nothing, creating particles of matter from ordinary light for the first time. The experiment was carried out at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) by scientists and students from the University of Rochester, Princeton University, the University of Tennessee, and Stanford.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/...
Indeed if one is to believe that all the matter in the universe was contained within a singularity, then similarly a source of energy has formed into the matter of the universe.
Energy, has been observed to produce matter. Organic matter, blood, organs and cerebral engrams are only elements in precise locations, mixed with water, and electric spark.
Now I responded with many reasons as to why I have faith and you have chosen to address one of them.
Why do you and others have faith that there is no God and life can arise out of elements or rock into complex factories of reproduction all by themselves hanging around those deep vents or organic soup pond or any other speculation?
Your premiss hinges on the idea made popular ie. popular misconception, that photons have no mass nor weight.
Which is not true.

But more sailliant is that you have not proven that electro-magnetic energy (recall that you say god is) all by itself, as in not working on mass can simply change into matter.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108111
Jan 18, 2013
 
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Particl...
Photons being massless is a figure of speech.

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