It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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MIDutch

Waterford, MI

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#108074
Jan 18, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Angels are often symbolized and referenced in scripture as stars.
Revelation 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Revelation 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
your welcome. Stick with me and you'll learn things:-)
So, if the stars were angels, what were the sun, the moon, the Earthquake, the mountains, the islands and the rocks that were part of that Rev 6:9-16 sequence?

Can you give scripture that says that the Sun was, what, a satyr, or the moon a unicorn?

And how about the Earthquake? Any scripture that demonstrates that it was actually "god" having an orgasm?

Why is the ONE WORD in that entire sequence takes as metaphor and EVERYTHING ELSE "literally and in errantly"?(other than you NEED it to be taken as metaphor)

Anything? Anything at all, other than you putting your own words into the BIble and changing it's meaning to suit your own bronze age, goat herder FAIRY TALE agenda?

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Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

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#108075
Jan 18, 2013
 
I quoted MIDutch as writing:
Heck, you guys can't even demonstrate that your "god" exists, let alone that the Bible has any insight into "it's" nature or humanities relationship with "it".

I quoted marksman11 as writing:
Hummm, ya reckin that is why it is a faith based belief? Duh!!!

I wrote:
Yes, I reckon that is why it is a faith-based belief.
Would you please explain what that DOESN'T imply that it is a faith-based belief?

marksman11 wrote:
You need to word that where it is a little more understandable please.

Okay, Ill try again:
Would you please explain what your faith is based on if it is not based on faith?
In other words, what makes you say that angels, witches, and talking animals are real?

“See how you are?”

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Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#108076
Jan 18, 2013
 
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Timing is superfluous to the discussion.
The question is the source/origin of the potential or influences which made life and things emerge.
Time is not a cause in nor of itself; so there is no need to involve time when discussing cause(s) of the world as such.
Chenicals did not form themselves; there were influences that caused chemicals to interact in particular ways to produce different chemicals.
As such, even if chemicals did form "self replicating complex structures", they would have done so under the influence of that which is influencing them (the chemicals).
So we are still looking for a original cause... and that infinite regress crap is crappy, so dont come with it.
Science informs us that the universe had a beginning, so there was a "First Cause".
You aren't seriously trying to march out the tired old "Newton's Second Law! Newton's Second Law!" misconception, are you? 1) Time does matter. 2) The Earth is not a closed system. 3) Molecules commonly combine, split and recombine to form chemicals. 4) Nothing prohibits chemicals from creating replicating forms or creating more complex molecules. Pasteur's "Law of Biogenesis" has no relevance to simple organics. 5)Your paraphrasing apologetic nonsense is a waste of server space.

Beginnings require a "first cause" ONLY because it is within the framework of the universe as we comprehend it. "Prior" to that there was no time, so there was/is/will be/ever/never/always/not/eleph ant/rutabaga/... effect or cause/cause or effect. There are no numbers, words or descriptors in a null set. Got it?

“See how you are?”

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Since: Jul 12

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#108077
Jan 18, 2013
 
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>All you have to do is accept my challenges or refute me. You never do. I've noticed you atheist types in this forum are getting testy and frustrated. I understand why, but if it were me I'd just change my world view to the more superior one that exposed the flaws in the original!!
What a typical response from expect from a CINO. I say it again, mind your 9th commandment! LOOK IT UP THIS TIME.
You stated the oceans have not risen in the last 50 years. I posted a link to ACTUAL DATA that says they have, and you dismissed it by pointing at parts of the article that addressed ice melt over 10,000 years ago.
Testy and frustrated with you? LOL! Aside from another CINO ID WHACKNUT, who wouldn't be?

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

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#108078
Jan 18, 2013
 

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Lililth_Satans_Bore wrote:
<quoted text>wow... it's gotta be tough being so ignorant as you
Actually the ignorant part is easy, the hard part is all markie's rationalizations! It takes real work to keep tap dancing around reality the way he does. Think about all the lies, evasions, and denials he's racked up. That's hard work!

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#108079
Jan 18, 2013
 
Update on an earlier (local) story I related:

"Atheists, others want equal access to schools after Bible distribution"

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/educa...

“I Am No One Else”

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Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#108080
Jan 18, 2013
 
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
It was written "...they hated me without a cause..." [Jesu(s): John 15:25]
These atheists here are only attempting to use science to justify their hatred for God, calling it "scepticism".
But the thing about scepticism is that it has no boundaries nor rules; you can be sceptical about anything for any reason. You can be sceptical about the reality of the very ground you walk on. After all, who knows what is really real, so that we know what is not?
So even if God came to earth with all the Havenly Hosts, brilliant with Glory; they could deny Him. They dont have to say "GOD IS HERE???!!!"; they could say "LOOK, EXTRATERRESTRIALS; ARE THEY ATTACKING US???!"
Tragic, I tell you .
I guess you are not a christian, since you are mocking your own god.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

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#108081
Jan 18, 2013
 
Kong_ wrote:
Update on an earlier (local) story I related:
"Atheists, others want equal access to schools after Bible distribution"
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/educa...


Ah! Must be time once again for a school district to piss away money on lawsuits.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

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#108082
Jan 18, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah! Must be time once again for a school district to piss away money on lawsuits.
Yup. The story provides context. Two days ago a Christian group handed out Bibles on Orange County public school campuses, because this same group won a court case in another county allowing them same (Orange County was scared they too would lose a similar case).

NOW, atheists -- and others -- want equal opportunity.

Reminds me of an old adage:

"Once you open a can of worms, the only way to re-can them is to use a bigger can."

“I Am No One Else”

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Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#108083
Jan 18, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah! Must be time once again for a school district to piss away money on lawsuits.
Let the games begin!

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

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#108084
Jan 18, 2013
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
HI guys. Just touching base. Haven't been on Topix in quite a while.
Welcome back DS! Good to see you.

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Since: Jul 12

Australia

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#108085
Jan 18, 2013
 

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Lililth_Satans_Bore wrote:
<quoted text>aaaaaaaaaaaaawwwh what a shame.... you don't like me.... well take a seat with the other biatches who don't.... and when i give a fluck.... i'll call your number
truth is no real microbiologist really cares one way or the other if you believe that the world was designed by a sky fairy, me being one of those. Nothing i could ever present to you would ever bring you out of your godbot dilussions so i don't waste my time. Your posts continue to prove you have no understanding of CURRENT evolutionary biology which is all driven by genomics you dolt ... you know the abandonment of the linnaen classification system to the DNA driven cladisstics... so debate your stupid foot print that represents hundred plus year old methods all you like you stupid novice
My posts show you have no knowledge because so far I have not really seen you say anything more knowledgeable that a high school student would have to say.

Your 150 plus years of evolutionary science is unstable, ever changing and riddled with falsifications. You are pretending to be one of this so called biologists that are consistently wrong.

So what does 'Satans bore' have to say? Oh yeah! "They said so". Any goose here can come up with that, biologist! Quack!

So I have modern bird footprints clearly demonstrating a reversed hallux dated to 212mya, birds flying around when the land was still Pangea and not separated yet, I have some fossil evidence in protoavis that evos don't want to know about. You have what? Oh Yeah! Convergent evolution the GOOFF card and mythical theropods, not one of which has ever been found with a reveresed hallux.

A variety of tetrapods have been dated to 397mya. There is evidence of a foot pad, which is a mammal trait. I expect these to appear right on the heels of the time of fishes, if we are fortunate to find any evidence at all. Well we have and they do. What do evos have? Oh Yeah! Nothing now as Tiktaalik has been defamed!!!!!!!!!!

Would you like to have a go at giving us some facts a little more scientific that evos can demonstrate over a century of falsifications that evos call heading toward the light. eg human knucklewalking ancestry,'pond & soup' theory, single celled LUCA,'junk' dna, brain size tied to bipedalism, 2 domains of life, etc etc.

If you seriously want to demo that you are more than all talk then you will appropraitely articulate what is erroneous information I have presented and delineate data from the interpretation of it.

I suggest you can no more falsify my using the bird footprints as what they appear to be, birds thriving 212mya on Pangea, than I can falsify your mythical theropods of you claim this myth exists.

What are your facts? My facts are footprints that have fossilized well and do not need a reconstruction based on a either paradigm.

Let's see if you can come up with better than 'they said so', ridicule and the hubris you have offered so far.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Australia

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#108086
Jan 18, 2013
 

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Thomas Robertson wrote:
I quoted MIDutch as writing:
Heck, you guys can't even demonstrate that your "god" exists, let alone that the Bible has any insight into "it's" nature or humanities relationship with "it".
I quoted marksman11 as writing:
Hummm, ya reckin that is why it is a faith based belief? Duh!!!
I wrote:
Yes, I reckon that is why it is a faith-based belief.
Would you please explain what that DOESN'T imply that it is a faith-based belief?
marksman11 wrote:
You need to word that where it is a little more understandable please.
Okay, Ill try again:
Would you please explain what your faith is based on if it is not based on faith?
In other words, what makes you say that angels, witches, and talking animals are real?
My faith is based on the empirical evidence that energy, the form God is described as, can create matter and faith that HE can create organic matter because God is meant to be smarter than we.

I have faith in the only spiritual text where the composers do not take glory for themselves and did not live in shameless luxury on the back of it, in both OT and NT.

I have faith that the bible, although not a science book, has so many valdiated scientific claims that I see no reason to not believe the few that are difficult to explain with modern science.

I have faith that energy forms can manipulate their body shape as they did when angels came to earth.

I believe in intelligent alien life forms, just like evos hope to find, but these are non organic.

My faith is also based on not being so arrogant as to believe that the ability of non organic life forms can be explained by our current sciences.

I think belief in God is not the same support as for creation, although creative events would support the existence of a God. eg theist evos.

What is your faith based on? I suggest evos faith is that dead elements can organize themselves into complex factories of reproduction without intelligent assistance and have faith in what researchers that are consistently wrong have to say as flavour of the month.

What do you have faith in? Do you reserarch and understand or just listen and accept what grant seekers have to say.

“I Am No One Else”

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Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#108087
Jan 18, 2013
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
My faith is based on the empirical evidence that energy, the form God is described as, can create matter and faith that HE can create organic matter because God is meant to be smarter than we.
...
That is an assertion, where is the evidence of all this?

““You must not lose faith ”

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Since: Jun 11

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#108088
Jan 18, 2013
 

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KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course yowm can mean 24 hrs, 7 of which constitute a week. That doesn't mean yowm can't also mean time periods of other duration. It seems you have now acknowledged it can.
I think I'm getting your drift. You are among those who seem to think that if you provide some info, that is the end of the matter, when in fact, that just begins the scrutiny (peer review). Any data you have provided which I have seen, I have demonstrated how it doesn't make your intended point. If you know otherwise then provide the example. Admittedly, it is often difficult to determine what your point is, due to your stream-of-consciousness communication style.
I think you are not catching my drift in any sort of way (let's not even speak of snowdrifts accumulating or the Atacama) since you do not retain information that has allready been given.

We have called that intellectual dishonesty, or plain mental laziness, and frankly do not see the point in repeating.
We find ourselves repeating however but that would be just a mention of what has allready been discussed extensively before.

So it would be up to you to scroll back to the peer-reviewed scientific articles and to except what hebrew language experts had to say about the matter, as well as historians.

It is however not your place to change the rules and data under discussion. We would simply not talk about the same matter/data facts under scrutiny.
If you state you do not accept yom being just a day, because it does not fit your way of dealing with data, then that would be your decision, and yours alone.

But to show how i wrote it i my post (thanks Mike F for pointing it out again):

KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
So what's the "day" in Genesis 2? BTW, now we're considering data, although per usual not from your side.

MAAT
Have you allready learned how to open excell?
Read the snow amassing figures yet?
And what have you concluded?

24 hours , we've discussed this, with the hebrew grammar and explanations, months ago.
Besides you will find the explanation in exodus!
As mentioned some 30 pages back also.

No KAB, we know how you do not deal with information, regardless the side. Even your own.
---

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108089
Jan 18, 2013
 
I will grant you that in some poetic passages in the books of prophets, is can be a longer duration. But that was not the issue, now was it!
You can't keep on shifting the goal-posts.
Without making your statements meaningless.
But still if we read:'the day will come'.
Most people expect that to be a moment in a 24 hours day cycle, and not an event stretching eaons.

-The creationist premiss is that god did the entire process within 6 actual days. A god-power magic process. Canging that changes the text of the Bible.
-The next claim would be that intelligent design proofs the changes interpretation of the bible that would thus enable creation by god, to be a fact because they can replicated up to a certain point, i.e. redesign it. Their statement relies on some complexities have come forward that they believe to have hitherto not been explained by science.
But have been replicated by design processes.
(Usually we read then quoting websides 30 years old)
-Evolution says both can't be done, without falsifying both the biblecal account and the scietific method.
And that evolution describes a proces as happened in nature.
If god is nature we could even reason that evolution sticks closer to leaving god it's intrinsic value.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108090
Jan 18, 2013
 
Hmm it could do with some redaction and removal of typos, but the gist is clear.

Short:
- Creation happended in six days.
- ID claims it can redesign it but would take more time then six days, and it can't explain everything.
- Evolution does not bother with changing the bible nor is it redesigning. It only reports what it sees in nature and tries to understand it.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108091
Jan 18, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That is an assertion, where is the evidence of all this?
messengers (proper translation) feature in the hebrew bible but are frankly just a writers tool to make clear someone had a vision.

But Mazhere is entitled to her? stated believes, just as KAB as Jehova user is, but it simply means we are discussing entirely different ideas.

Indeed not even facts.
As in even have a base for a discussion.
We might as well also discuss the hindu's ideas.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108092
Jan 18, 2013
 
Mazhere wrote:
My faith is based on the empirical evidence that energy, the form God is described as, can create matter and faith that HE can create organic matter because God is meant to be smarter than we.

---
What empirical evidence that energy is ever described as being god? Where?
How does energy create matter?
And if smarts can create organic matter, then any creature giving birth or replicating would be god too.

just some thoughts. On what are basicly your definitions and not necessarily the way other believers define.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#108093
Jan 18, 2013
 
What Mazhere is basicly saying is that god is matter and matter is smart but essentially male.

Just analysing that sentence.
And for some reason that god did not want to materialise unless everywhere around us as matter.

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