It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#106001 Jan 2, 2013
dammit

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#106002 Jan 2, 2013
KAB wrote:
Provide data from a single piece of wood with a continuous set of rings spanning the time of the flood and we'll have something to consider.
No problem. Give a date for the Flood.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#106003 Jan 2, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>1....if it proved that no designer was necessary, then no scientist would be necessary.
No, not if the scientist was merely replicating conditions that might have existed naturally on Earth billions of years ago.
2....abiogenesis and human from non-human evolution are absolutely related. Chemicals, or the building blocks of life, had to somehow mix, with what ever other ingredients are necessary, to change into...or EVOLVE into life. You guys try to keep it seperated because you have no observable evidence at all for abiogenesis, which then sheds a bad light on the validity of human from non-human evolution.
On the contrary. YOU are trying to entwine two different things because you know that we have a huge amount of evidence for evolution but little understanding of aboigenesis by comparison. So you try to claim that one depends upon the other, which is false.
If it is found that a divine designer is absolutely necessary for the origin of life, then there is no need for evolution.
In order to create a testing ground for human souls, which is what you seem to think this universe is for, was there any need for 10^23 stars, or galaxies so distant their light took 13 billion years to get here? Any need for the Red Spot? Any need for billions of generations of extinct cnidarians?

Saying evolution was not NECESSARY is just silly, given the superabundance of practically everything else in this universe!

Either it pleased God to create a universe with evolution and Quasars, or these things just happened. Either way, they happened. Just because primitive men writing the Bible were not aware of them and do not mention distant galaxies, bacteria, or radio waves, does not mean they don't exist. Just because any Genesis account of creation is at best an inaccurate potted summary of the last 13.6 billion years, or at worst merely another pre-scientific human myth...

...evolution is too well supported to ignore.

I would suggest that like other Christians who have actually learned science, even going back to Thomas Aquinas, but today including the likes of Glen Morton, Craig Ventor, and Michael Denton, you look at the facts and accommodate them into your Christianity instead of banging your head against the wall.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106004 Jan 3, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Ape is a group of species, not a specific species. Our species is part of that group. It's not rocket science here.
I am a human being, they are apes. Apes are not human beings.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#106005 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I am a human being, they are apes. Apes are not human beings.
Do you have evidence of your assertion that apes are a specific species and not a collection of species that includes homosapien?
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106006 Jan 3, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not if the scientist was merely replicating conditions that might have existed naturally on Earth billions of years ago.
Well guess what? That is easy to do, and they ain't done it yet!!! THey can use any conditions they want to, AND IT STILL AIN'T HAPPENING!!!!!and I'm telling you that life is far to complex to randomly occur through natural processes. HECK.... SCIENTISTS CAN'T EVEN FORCE IT TO OCCUR!!!!!
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary. YOU are trying to entwine two different things because you know that we have a huge amount of evidence for evolution but little understanding of aboigenesis by comparison. So you try to claim that one depends upon the other, which is false.
1....they are entwined because both must, according to your world view, happen without the aid of a designer. At present time science can't even force life to spontainiously generate, let alone nature randomly produce it. 2....You have evidence for micro evolution. You have zero observable evidence for human from non-human evolution. You can't even force it to occur just like abiogenesis. THey are perfectly entwined because these chemicals and building blocks must "change" or "evolve" into life. And then these primitive life forms much eventually "change" and "evolve" into humans. All in your world view, without a divine designer. It ain't happening for you. THey are entwined, ESPECIALLY for an atheist!!!!
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
...evolution is too well supported to ignore.
I would suggest that like other Christians who have actually learned science, even going back to Thomas Aquinas, but today including the likes of Glen Morton, Craig Ventor, and Michael Denton, you look at the facts and accommodate them into your Christianity instead of banging your head against the wall.
Funny, this was my message to the children of our church tonight.Psalms 118:8

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

so true!! Albert Einstines teacher told his father that Albert would never accomplish anything. The man over the US Pantend Office said in 1899 that there was nothing left to invent. Western Union said after the telephone was invented that there would never be a demand for it. And Charles Darwin said humans are a product of evolution. GOD said he created man. I'll go with GOD. It fits what i observe. Evolution does not.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106007 Jan 3, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have evidence of your assertion that apes are a specific species and not a collection of species that includes homosapien?
Mrs. Ape, that is just world games and labels. Humanly assigned labels has no effect on the validity of evolution. I am a human being. Apes are not human beings. Nice try but not even close, although I do love your atheist word games.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106008 Jan 3, 2013
Usuallyunique wrote:
<quoted text>
Without proof, there is nothing demonstrating your beliefs to be more correct than others. You couldn't even tell a Norse Mythologist that he was is wrong.
I won't try to tell a Norse mythologist that he is wrong. He is allowed his beliefs without attack. I would debate him if he attacked my beliefs, just like the ones in this group have.
Usuallyunique wrote:
<quoted text>
Secondly, if this is the case, then why do you even care to fight evolution? If your right, then we are gonna get ours in the afterlife. God should be fighting us, not you.
That is true and GOD will handle it in the afterlife. I'm not trying to save you. I'm trying to save those that you try to drag with you. I could say the same for you, why battle creationist? In the end, it doesn't matter. More so in your case than mine. I like to keep up with atheististic views so if I run across someone who is truly searching, Hopefully I'll have an answer for them. I know what's coming next.....all evolutionists aren't atheists. I know, but I'd say all atheists are evolutionists. They have to be.
Usuallyunique wrote:
<quoted text>
Most importantly, without proof we will descend back into the bronze age. When your car breaks down, you don't take it to you village elder and have him dance around it. You take it to someone that can prove they can fix it.
I fix it myself.
Usuallyunique wrote:
<quoted text>
The core of this is:
Your beliefs are comforting and feel incredibly good. I know the feeling. Going outside that feeling is scary and has no real attraction to you. That's why someone as smart as Mazhere can reject anything that comes between him/her and those feelings. Doesn't really matter what it is. Its strong, I remember.
THen you were ignorant for leaving it. The bible says without faith it's impossible to please GOD. Faith is awesome...you ought to admit it sometime.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106009 Jan 3, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
God doesn't exist. How do I know this??
There are no pictures of God.
There are no eyewitnesses to God.
Prayers to God are never answered.
No one throughout history has ever been able to prove the existence of God.
There is nothing but people of faith testifying to his existence.
God is not needed for anything...Billions of people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years without any thought or need of the Christian God.
People who follow other Gods are no better off, or worse off, than those who follow the Christian God.
You have to believe in magic to accept God.
You also have to believe in supernatural creatures if you believe in God.
People have killed others and used God as an excuse...even in modern times.
There is enough evidence against God that if you want me or any other atheist to believe this phantom of yours...Prove Him to be real.
Another ignorant atheist requesting scientific proof for GOD when science is unqualified to deal with the supernatural.

As in Romans one, it is obvious by your remarks that GOD has turned you over to a reprobate mind. You say ignorant things like...."There are no eyewitnesses to God."

How about James, John, Thomas, Peter, Andrew, Barthlomew, Pilot, Simeon, Mary, Joeseph, Anna,......etc and the list goes on and on. You see, you are ignorant of what christianity is. You don't even know that Jesus was GOD. Then you make other ignorant statements like....."People have killed others and used God as an excuse...even in modern times."

People have also killed people with automobiles, and they exist! People have killed people with guns....and guns exist. You should be embarassed because of what you posted.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#106010 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Mrs. Ape, that is just world games and labels. Humanly assigned labels has no effect on the validity of evolution. I am a human being. Apes are not human beings. Nice try but not even close, although I do love your atheist word games.
If it was just "word games and labels," as you say, not that you were wrong on that point, why would it matter so much to you? Humans are one of the ape species. Would you rather be related to dirt or to something living?
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106011 Jan 3, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
This has recently become one of Duane Gish’s hits and I try to keep up with Duane Gish.
So it is important that I tackle this one.
As for your question, we don’t have the fossils to say where and when, but I’ll take on how and why. We can answer this question the same way we answer the what-good-is-half-an-eye question, because in both cases, we have species in each stage living today.
The first stage, as you may guess, is the asexual stage. We all seem to agree that there are asexual species living today, so we shall proceed to the next stage.
For the second stage, we have three options. We can have each member take on both functions. To put this in college dormitory slang, each member will be a “morphodyte.” Or, we can enable each member to change back and forth at will. Both models are represented by plant and animal species living today. Or, we can reproduce both sexually and asexually. This method is practiced by the slime mold amoeba. They tend to go the sexual route when resources get scarce.
At this point, the gametes, or the germ cells which unite with other germ cells, are not clearly identifiable as eggs and sperms. During the third stage, this identification gradually takes place.
At this stage, the gender of the individual could be determined not genetically, but environmentally. The gender of an insect could depend on its diet during the larval stage. The gender of an amphibian or reptile could depend on the temperature during incubation.
The fourth stage, of course, is the stage which we live in now.“It’s a boy!”“It’s a girl!” If we went the morphodyte route, everyone lost one function or the other. If we went the click-on-click-off route, everyone clicked one way and stay there. If we went the double-threat route, everyone dropped one method and kept the other.
Lest we pat ourselves on the back for reaching the finish line, let us remember that we still carry male boobies as vestigial organs.
That makes a nice story, biut there ain't a word of science in it. Science is not built of "could be's" and "might have beens". It is qualified by the scientific method of which observation, testing, and replication is demanded. You presented a nice fantasy, but I'm interested in the scientific observations of the when, where, how, and why? Currently, there is no answers...accept of course, GOD designed them that way!!! You might want to employ Lord Occam on this one.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106012 Jan 3, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
If it was just "word games and labels," as you say, not that you were wrong on that point, why would it matter so much to you? Humans are one of the ape species. Would you rather be related to dirt or to something living?
I don't care. All I want is what ever is true. Dirt makes more sense. When I die, that is what my body will return to, not an ape.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#106013 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't care. All I want is what ever is true. Dirt makes more sense. When I die, that is what my body will return to, not an ape.
Why would you turn into what you are? That's just utter nonsense.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#106014 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
That makes a nice story, biut there ain't a word of science in it. Science is not built of "could be's" and "might have beens". It is qualified by the scientific method of which observation, testing, and replication is demanded. You presented a nice fantasy, but I'm interested in the scientific observations of the when, where, how, and why? Currently, there is no answers...accept of course, GOD designed them that way!!! You might want to employ Lord Occam on this one.
Either you forgot that the scientific method starts with a hypothesis or you hoped that I did.

Show me a study which includes observation, testing, and replication and concluded that God created Adam and Eve and I will repent of my past sins and declare Jewsus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

Oh, one more thing: see if the study says whether or not Adam had boobies.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#106015 Jan 3, 2013
MazHere wrote:
I doubt evolutionists care.

Naw, I don't care.
I never bother to do any reading or studying,
I just make stuff up as I go along.

Deep down inside, I really know that God created Adam and Eve, that the kangaroos hopped all the way back to Australia, and that Solomon had a funny-looking wash tub, but I like to pretend that all that isn't true.

For that matter, I don't even know why I'm following the Evolution crowd.
One of these days, I'll get tired of saying we're related to a chimpanzee and say we're related to a cocker spaniel.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106016 Jan 3, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you turn into what you are? That's just utter nonsense.
NO, You are Mrs. Ape...remember? I'm a human being.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#106017 Jan 3, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Either you forgot that the scientific method starts with a hypothesis or you hoped that I did.
I'm fine with the hypothesis of human from non-human evolution if you are willing to admit that that is all it is. It is not a scientific theory.
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me a study which includes observation, testing, and replication and concluded that God created Adam and Eve and I will repent of my past sins and declare Jewsus Christ as my Lord and Savior.
How many times do I have to yell that science is unqualified to deal with the supernatural? Huh? How many times?
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, one more thing: see if the study says whether or not Adam had boobies.
You can ask him on judgement day.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#106018 Jan 3, 2013
So a book says that 2000 years ago, James, John, Thomas, Peter, Andrew, Barthlomew, Pilot, Simeon, Mary, Joeseph, and Anna saw a person which marksman says was God, and therefore, wordofme was ignorant for saying "There are no eyewitnesses to God"!

Thank you, marksman, you people devise the most interesting syllogisms!

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#106019 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>NO, You are Mrs. Ape...remember? I'm a human being.
You said you were dirt, therefore you cannot become dirt.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#106020 Jan 3, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> I'm fine with the hypothesis of human from non-human evolution if you are willing to admit that that is all it is. It is not a scientific theory.<quoted text>How many times do I have to yell that science is unqualified to deal with the supernatural? Huh? How many times?<quoted text>You can ask him on judgement day.
Then come up with a better theory that explains the fossils and DNA than the theory of evolution.

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