It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 151311 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#103734 Dec 6, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
But, you don't believe they DO exist, right? Or, do you? There's a difference between saying you don't believe they exist and you believe they don't exist. I'm not asking you to say you believe they don't exist; I'm merely asking if you believe they DO exist. Do you?
Lets see:

I don't believe they exist VS I believe they don't exist...

You seem to be on to something there....

But look, I am of the beleife that a thing is knowable only through the demonstration or observation of its attributes.

Hence I cant know that LowellGay exists unless I a observe some attributes that are said to belong to LowellGay.

Hence, its not about what I dont believe or what I believe dont; its about whether or not I am able to see the influences or attributes of those things manifested or demonstrated at any time.

So if I hear that fairies go "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeee" then whenever I hear "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eee", I will naturally and logically attribute that sound to a fairies.

If the "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee " I hear happens to be a..... mouse screaming; that doesn't mean that there is no fairy... it could mean that a mouse is a part of the concept of what a "fairy" is.

A THING IS THE SUM OF IT ATTRIBUTES (to me anyway), as the whole is the sum of its parts.

So as long as the attribute of a thing that is described exists, then I cannot say that that thing in itself does not exist.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103735 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>The god mentioned in it, lives in the sky, and hell is under the Earth, we've been both places and found no gods, therefore, the god mentioned in that book is not real. End of story. Make up a new god or give up the delusion.
Saying "because we have been to space and found no God and we know the core of the earth holds no hell it just can't be real" while understandable doesn't show any evidence that he isn't real. 3 of the worlds largest religions follows the same God while this doesn't prove the existence of God it does show some credibility to the story. What took place to make so many believe in this God? Islam, Jews , Christians all hold Abraham as being the man God chose. Maybe it all goes back to something that took place there? My point is writing it off as nothing but myth would be ignoring something in history God being real or not.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103736 Dec 6, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. BTW, neither does Webster!
So many Princess Bride quotes today!

Okay, I have to watch that again, tomorrow.
God Himself

Kingston, Jamaica

#103737 Dec 6, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. BTW, neither does Webster!
I am in neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee d; of your ageless wisdom and enlightenment!

Teach me what Omnipotence means; give me the true definition of Almighty and Omnipotent, I beseech thee oh high and lofty one; full of light and... all those high and lofty things.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#103738 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
One digit? That is impossible as pi has no last digit to round.
I see you're not familiar with mathematical terminology. That makes it even more difficult. Hope is fading for that correct answer and a shot at the bonus question.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103739 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Saying "because we have been to space and found no God and we know the core of the earth holds no hell it just can't be real" while understandable doesn't show any evidence that he isn't real. 3 of the worlds largest religions follows the same God while this doesn't prove the existence of God it does show some credibility to the story. What took place to make so many believe in this God? Islam, Jews , Christians all hold Abraham as being the man God chose. Maybe it all goes back to something that took place there? My point is writing it off as nothing but myth would be ignoring something in history God being real or not.
Wow, way to pass the burden of proof again. No, but it means you have no evidence that your god is real, none, zero. We've examined all the claims, found no evidence to support them, therefore the only logical conclusion is that it's all mythology, made up, a scam probably. Until something has demonstrable evidence, believing, let alone asserting, that it's real is delusion, plain and simple, it is the very definition of delusion.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103740 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, way to pass the burden of proof again. No, but it means you have no evidence that your god is real, none, zero. We've examined all the claims, found no evidence to support them, therefore the only logical conclusion is that it's all mythology, made up, a scam probably. Until something has demonstrable evidence, believing, let alone asserting, that it's real is delusion, plain and simple, it is the very definition of delusion.
Forget it you are so dead set against god you can't even see that the bible does hold some history while it might not be world history it is a good starting point. No different than the finding of Troy for a long time people thought the Trojan war was just a story. While the war maybe they did find Troy.
KAB

Wilson, NC

#103741 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
KAB, here's a math quiz, pi is a complete circle, so how many degrees are lost when you drop all the significant digits and keep only the one?
I'll answer that for you, since everyone has a calculator:
8.11 degrees, approximately, even that's not precise. That means a circle in the bible is equal to 343.78 .... not a very round circle, and it certainly would not work in architecture or any form of engineering for that matter, if you presented that as your circle to the pharaohs even they'd banish you from working on pyramids, and those were not much more precise in their measurements. But even they knew what 360 degrees was, your "all knowing" deity either wanted the believers to kill themselves, or he simply isn't real.
Your ignorance is showing even more, mathematically speaking. Better recheck your calculations (HINT: How many degrees around a circle's center is swept out in one complete traverse of its circumference?)

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103742 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Forget it you are so dead set against god you can't even see that the bible does hold some history while it might not be world history it is a good starting point. No different than the finding of Troy for a long time people thought the Trojan war was just a story. While the war maybe they did find Troy.
What history that was accurately portrayed in that book? Note the word accurately in there. But that's not even the important part, supernatural claims require supernatural evidence, so, even if all the book is good for is history, that doesn't support it's claims about the supernatural, of which there is zero evidence for. So you are back to being delusional because you are believing, and asserting, something to be real that you have no evidence to suggest it is.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103743 Dec 6, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ignorance is showing even more, mathematically speaking. Better recheck your calculations (HINT: How many degrees around a circle's center is swept out in one complete traverse of its circumference?)
Hmm, I wonder if you did catch my actual mistake ... so tell us, without Google, what does pi represent?

Hint: It's easily converted to another number, very easily.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103744 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>What history that was accurately portrayed in that book? Note the word accurately in there. But that's not even the important part, supernatural claims require supernatural evidence, so, even if all the book is good for is history, that doesn't support it's claims about the supernatural, of which there is zero evidence for. So you are back to being delusional because you are believing, and asserting, something to be real that you have no evidence to suggest it is.
Try to follow me here. The story of the Trojan war as written by Homer may have been false. However using the story they found Troy. So a touch of FACT in a story that may have been just a story.
Islam, Jews, and Christianity see Abraham as the "father" of Islam, and Jews. Now why would 3 religions that have never really seen eye to eye on anything see that one man as being so important. I'm not trying to prove a God exists just that MAYBE there is something in the story that would be worth looking at from a historical point.

Like the ark story if they found the remains of the ark somewhere even if a world flood didn't happen finding it would be a huge find.
LowellGuy

Salem, MA

#103745 Dec 6, 2012
God Himself wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets see:
I don't believe they exist VS I believe they don't exist...
You seem to be on to something there....
But look, I am of the beleife that a thing is knowable only through the demonstration or observation of its attributes.
Hence I cant know that LowellGay exists unless I a observe some attributes that are said to belong to LowellGay.
Hence, its not about what I dont believe or what I believe dont; its about whether or not I am able to see the influences or attributes of those things manifested or demonstrated at any time.
So if I hear that fairies go "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeee" then whenever I hear "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eee", I will naturally and logically attribute that sound to a fairies.
If the "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee " I hear happens to be a..... mouse screaming; that doesn't mean that there is no fairy... it could mean that a mouse is a part of the concept of what a "fairy" is.
A THING IS THE SUM OF IT ATTRIBUTES (to me anyway), as the whole is the sum of its parts.
So as long as the attribute of a thing that is described exists, then I cannot say that that thing in itself does not exist.
Do you believe they exist? You either do or you don't. You know the answer. Just say it. No need to beat around the bush.
LowellGuy

Salem, MA

#103746 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Saying "because we have been to space and found no God and we know the core of the earth holds no hell it just can't be real" while understandable doesn't show any evidence that he isn't real. 3 of the worlds largest religions follows the same God while this doesn't prove the existence of God it does show some credibility to the story. What took place to make so many believe in this God? Islam, Jews , Christians all hold Abraham as being the man God chose. Maybe it all goes back to something that took place there? My point is writing it off as nothing but myth would be ignoring something in history God being real or not.
Only empirical evidence lends credibility to a story. Everyone at Jonestown thought they were going to heaven, as did the people in the Hale-Bopp cult. Credibility isn't determined by popularity. That's putting the logical cart before the horse.
LowellGuy

Salem, MA

#103747 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Forget it you are so dead set against god you can't even see that the bible does hold some history while it might not be world history it is a good starting point. No different than the finding of Troy for a long time people thought the Trojan war was just a story. While the war maybe they did find Troy.
Evidence, not popularity, lent credibility to the story. And, the existence of Troy and the reality of the Trojan War in no way validate stories about Zeus.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103748 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Try to follow me here. The story of the Trojan war as written by Homer may have been false. However using the story they found Troy. So a touch of FACT in a story that may have been just a story.
Islam, Jews, and Christianity see Abraham as the "father" of Islam, and Jews. Now why would 3 religions that have never really seen eye to eye on anything see that one man as being so important. I'm not trying to prove a God exists just that MAYBE there is something in the story that would be worth looking at from a historical point.
Like the ark story if they found the remains of the ark somewhere even if a world flood didn't happen finding it would be a huge find.
Jewish people were never in Egypt, we know this conclusively now as there is zero evidence of them being there.

No evidence found of them traveling the desert either.

World wide flood never happened, that was an easy one to realize actually, because such an event would have left a layer of catastrophic evidence so easy to spot, so uniform across the globe, it would be impossible to miss. There is no layer of sediment that spans one single era, and no mix up of fossils found. The only "arks" found were almost all hoaxes, the only possible boats found were not large enough to carry two of everything in that region, let alone the entire globe. The flood story has been addressed with a lot of detail by a lot of people, even mathematicians have demonstrated it's impossible. Ironically most were hoping to find evidence to support the story but were not ignorant enough to allow confirmation bias to cloud their perception.

There are two points that are not supported by reality at all. But even then, it's not the historical stories that anyone is discarding, it's the supernatural claims, if you make a supernatural claim you have to support it, or it is dismissed as myth.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103749 Dec 6, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>Evidence, not popularity, lent credibility to the story. And, the existence of Troy and the reality of the Trojan War in no way validate stories about Zeus.
Are you really blind to the FACT that fictional stories hold elements of fact.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#103750 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really blind to the FACT that fictional stories hold elements of fact.
Actually they MAY hold elements of fact. Sometimes you really have to stretch to get that fact.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103751 Dec 6, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really blind to the FACT that fictional stories hold elements of fact.
Elements of fact, not the whole story being fact, and even then we had to discover those facts through other means before we could know they were facts. That's what you're missing.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103752 Dec 6, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Jewish people were never in Egypt, we know this conclusively now as there is zero evidence of them being there.

No evidence found of them traveling the desert either.

World wide flood never happened, that was an easy one to realize actually, because such an event would have left a layer of catastrophic evidence so easy to spot, so uniform across the globe, it would be impossible to miss. There is no layer of sediment that spans one single era, and no mix up of fossils found. The only "arks" found were almost all hoaxes, the only possible boats found were not large enough to carry two of everything in that region, let alone the entire globe. The flood story has been addressed with a lot of detail by a lot of people, even mathematicians have demonstrated it's impossible. Ironically most were hoping to find evidence to support the story but were not ignorant enough to allow confirmation bias to cloud their perception.

There are two points that are not supported by reality at all. But even then, it's not the historical stories that anyone is discarding, it's the supernatural claims, if you make a supernatural claim you have to support it, or it is dismissed as myth.
When the Jews would have left Egypt they wouldn't have been called Israel. Not only that but Moses didn't even know he was a Jew until he was grown which implies he looked like an Egyptian. The Egyptians didn't write much about any slaves ever. As far as a mass exodus no evidence found yet they find things in the desert there all the time. Even if they do ind evidence of such an event taking place it still won't prove God exists.

Since: Sep 12

United States

#103753 Dec 6, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Actually they MAY hold elements of fact. Sometimes you really have to stretch to get that fact.
I get it you guys are atheist and I'm not trying to convert anyone here. All I am saying is that 3 of the worlds largest and most popular religions see Abraham as the father of the religion I would say supernatural or not finding out more about him where he lived how he lived might be important. Did Abraham "invent" God and pass the story down as a bed time story for his son? Was God and alien visitor who watched over him? Who ever he was he is the only man in the bible God called friend. The big religion race started there.

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