It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 152179 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#103333 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
It is profound in light of the fact that natural selection would naturally select traits which are more indestructible... while it supports the continuation of the "fittest" attributes.
I'm not so sure 'indestructible' applies.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
And dont dare tell me that "fitness" is not the criteria for "selection", unless you can provide or suggest a more effective alternative.
That would depend to some extent on how you're defining 'fitness'. In this context, I would define it as success in surviving and reproducing.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#103334 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Me? Are you sure? You seem to be the ones who rather like long hard things...
Oh really? Sorry, fruitloop. You'll have to look somewhere else for a date.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#103335 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Your justification? Pending.
This is an argument... and no not in the sense of "sassing".
It is not enough to say no and be negative; you must justify your stance or we will have no choice but to write you off as a... not very... intelligent.... being.
Psst! Hey, Einstein. YOU were that one making the claim not I. It is your burden of proof not mine.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103336 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
It is my heartfelt conviction that, no one who has any knowledge of how the human brain works and facilitates perception, will ever assert that he knows anything.
I mean, how do we know that leaves are green? Green is the effect and/or interpretation produced when light reflects off leaves. We cant ever really know what colour leaves are.
All our measurements and interpretations of the world are measurements and expressions of our bodily and mental processes. We are not examining the world, we are examining our selves, essentially.

Nice philosophy. Okay, not really so much.

If our perceptions do not (with reasonable consistency and accuracy) reflect what is real how are we able to build nuclear bombs and fun stuff like that? Did we just imagine dropping two bombs on a figment that we labeled Japan? And who is this "we" anyway? After all, I am just imagining YOU.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103337 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
I shall frame this post and I shall refer to it unceasingly. It is perhaps the truest response you have given, and will ever give on this post.
I smell you repenting; you are repenting arent you? I can feel it in my bones (or maybe its just the weed... LOL)

No repent here. I have said this before though probably not to you.
But accepting that we do have a similar reality is necessary for society to even function.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text> But I must correct you on one point:
NOT EVERYONE ACCEPTS THE SAME REALITY; THATS WHY THERE ARE SUCH THINGS AS DEBATES AND ARGUMENTS AND WARS AND NUCLEAR MISSILES.

That is not about "reality" that is about "opinion". The "reality" (say data?) is the same for both sides. But one side fixates on the aspects of that reality that are important to them and the other side fixates on the opposite.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
So far, I have learned that:
1. science doesnt accept "truth";

Science is not interested in "truth". Science is interested in data and making sense of that data in a way that makes the most sense (best explanation, and predictions).

"FACT.
INDY
"[science]...the search for fact. Not truth.
If it’s truth you’re interested in,
Doctor Tyree’s Philosophy class is
right down the hall." - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>2. evidence proves nothing;

But supports everything.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>3. there is no literal proof IN SCIENCE;

Nope. But there are facts in science (relative facts given the disclaimer above)
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text> Now pray tell me; what gives you any authority to claim that your ideas are more valid than those of a three month old baby?

Facts. And from them the ability to explain and make accurate predictions.

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#103338 Nov 27, 2012
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
It is profound in light of the fact that natural selection would naturally select traits which are more indestructible... while it supports the continuation of the "fittest" attributes.
And dont dare tell me that "fitness" is not the criteria for "selection", unless you can provide or suggest a more effective alternative.
Natural selection is about survival. What survives breeds. What doesn't doesn't.

It's the harsh reality of life in the wild that kills of those least adapted to that environment, leaving the best adapted to breed and pass on their genes.

It's not just the big and strong that survive. Worms and slugs thrive by being hard to find or distasteful to eat. There's a vast number of different strategies for survival hence the vast range of life on earth.

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#103339 Nov 27, 2012
God creates man with a full range of emotion and conscience. Evolution says man is nothing more than an advanced ape. Yet do apes feel self pity jealousy, pride, devotion does any animal? Isn't it nothing more than instinct that drives the animal word? They do not plant or build homes or seek to better themselves in any manor. Mankind has a drive to seek out where we came from to make the world around us better. Where does that come from 200 million years of evolution no other species on earth developed that just man. So what are the odds that out of billions of species only man has the ability to feel guilt?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103340 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
God creates man with a full range of emotion and conscience. Evolution says man is nothing more than an advanced ape. Yet do apes feel self pity jealousy, pride, devotion does any animal? Isn't it nothing more than instinct that drives the animal word? They do not plant or build homes or seek to better themselves in any manor. Mankind has a drive to seek out where we came from to make the world around us better. Where does that come from 200 million years of evolution no other species on earth developed that just man. So what are the odds that out of billions of species only man has the ability to feel guilt?
Yes, apes feel all of that.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#103341 Nov 27, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, apes feel all of that.
Even this:
http://www.nature.com/news/great-apes-go-thro...

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#103342 Nov 27, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, apes feel all of that.
They feel a need to improve themselves? That's freakin creepy how you would know that.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#103343 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
They feel a need to improve themselves? That's freakin creepy how you would know that.
Because they do behavioral tests, and all demonstrate that we are more alike than even geneticists thought.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#103344 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
God creates man with a full range of emotion and conscience. Evolution says man is nothing more than an advanced ape.
That's not what evolution says.
Bat Foy wrote:
Yet do apes feel self pity jealousy, pride, devotion does any animal? Isn't it nothing more than instinct that drives the animal word?
Yes, apes feel them (and humans ARE apes). As do other animals.

The ONLY thing that makes us different is:

1 - speech capable vocal chords

2 - opposable thumbs

3 - less hair
Bat Foy wrote:
They do not plant or build homes or seek to better themselves in any manor.
They build communities, just like humans. They don't have the hands to build homes. Nor the speech to communicate complex concepts.
Bat Foy wrote:
Mankind has a drive to seek out where we came from to make the world around us better.
Unless one happens to be a fundie, as they not only seek to go back to where they came from - non-life - but also want everyone else to go back to that too.
Bat Foy wrote:
Where does that come from 200 million years of evolution no other species on earth developed that just man.
Hey, SOMEONE had to be first.(shrug)
Bat Foy wrote:
So what are the odds that out of billions of species only man has the ability to feel guilt?
Not high, as such higher reasoning has been observed in the great apes for example. It's quite likely just as prevalent in other animals, it's just that we can't speak cat. Or dolphin.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#103345 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
They feel a need to improve themselves? That's freakin creepy how you would know that.
Is it anywhere NEAR as creepy than an invisible magic dude who you just so happen to KNOW is watching every single thing you're doing?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103346 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
God creates man with a full range of emotion and conscience. Evolution says man is nothing more than an advanced ape. Yet do apes feel self pity jealousy, pride, devotion does any animal?

Actually, YES. Apes display all of those emotions.
http://earthsky.org/human-world/barbara-king-...

[QUOTE who="Bat Foy"] Isn't it nothing more than instinct that drives the animal word? They do not plant or build homes or seek to better themselves in any manor. Mankind has a drive to seek out where we came from to make the world around us better. Where does that come from 200 million years of evolution no other species on earth developed that just man. So what are the odds that out of billions of species only man has the ability to feel guilt?

As your first premise is wrong the rest falls apart as well.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103347 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
They feel a need to improve themselves? That's freakin creepy how you would know that.

They work at establishing themselves and moving up in the social hierarchy.

You might want to read some research on apes.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103348 Nov 27, 2012
For some strange reason Psychology does not seem to be receiving my posts:

Lets try again and see if it GETS THROUGH this time.

You have not yet responded to post 109647. Are you still working through it?

Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Y'all don't think before you speak.
Funny, either you or chimney were saying that gravity is stronger at the center of earth.
The following comes from Physicists at Cambridge.
So when you burrow down into the Earth, the gravitational forces are cancelling out and that means there must be a weaker gravitational field down inside the Earth than there is on the surface.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/conten ...

If you WANT to understand you will not blow this post off.

I believe this has been explained to you more than once. I will try again. All matter has mass, correct? Now imagine you are looking at a transparent beech ball and imagine it is the earth (with mass) and you are a dot on the surface. Now, which direction are you going to be pulled? It will be (on average) toward the center of the ball, correct?

Now imagine you are at the center of the beech ball globe; which way will gravity pull you? Well, it will pull you in all directions equally, correct? So the net effect is no gravity. Are you with me so far?

You can do the same thought experiment and imagine you are 2/3's of the way from the surface to the middle of the beech ball. What is the net effect of gravity there? Well, gravity will be pulling in all directions but the gravity in the direction of the center is going to still be greater and you will be pulled in that direction, BUT with less force than if you are standing on the surface.

Now, one more mental experiment to try. Imaging that you are a million miles away from the earth out in space (over 4 times the distance to the moon). Is the gravitational force affecting you going to be less, more or the same as if you were standing on earth. Of course it will be less, correct? Gravity (just like electromagnetic energy) decreases as a function of the square of the distance (e.g. if you double the distance the force is 1/4 as strong).

So..... the gravitational field is the same strength at the center of the earth, it is simply acting in all directions and not unidirectionally as on the surface.

Now, do you understand all of this? If not where do you get lost or disagree with it?

If you want to understand you will not blow this post off.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#103349 Nov 27, 2012
Dogen wrote:
For some strange reason Psychology does not seem to be receiving my posts:
Lets try again and see if it GETS THROUGH this time.
You have not yet responded to post 109647. Are you still working through it?
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Y'all don't think before you speak.
Funny, either you or chimney were saying that gravity is stronger at the center of earth.
The following comes from Physicists at Cambridge.
So when you burrow down into the Earth, the gravitational forces are cancelling out and that means there must be a weaker gravitational field down inside the Earth than there is on the surface.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/conten ...
If you WANT to understand you will not blow this post off.
I believe this has been explained to you more than once. I will try again. All matter has mass, correct? Now imagine you are looking at a transparent beech ball and imagine it is the earth (with mass) and you are a dot on the surface. Now, which direction are you going to be pulled? It will be (on average) toward the center of the ball, correct?
Now imagine you are at the center of the beech ball globe; which way will gravity pull you? Well, it will pull you in all directions equally, correct? So the net effect is no gravity. Are you with me so far?
You can do the same thought experiment and imagine you are 2/3's of the way from the surface to the middle of the beech ball. What is the net effect of gravity there? Well, gravity will be pulling in all directions but the gravity in the direction of the center is going to still be greater and you will be pulled in that direction, BUT with less force than if you are standing on the surface.
Now, one more mental experiment to try. Imaging that you are a million miles away from the earth out in space (over 4 times the distance to the moon). Is the gravitational force affecting you going to be less, more or the same as if you were standing on earth. Of course it will be less, correct? Gravity (just like electromagnetic energy) decreases as a function of the square of the distance (e.g. if you double the distance the force is 1/4 as strong).
So..... the gravitational field is the same strength at the center of the earth, it is simply acting in all directions and not unidirectionally as on the surface.
Now, do you understand all of this? If not where do you get lost or disagree with it?
If you want to understand you will not blow this post off.
Wrong thread.:)

Since: Sep 12

Fort Worth, TX

#103350 Nov 27, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Because they do behavioral tests, and all demonstrate that we are more alike than even geneticists thought.
How do they measure things like guilt vs sadness and the wanting to understand the world they live in? That I would be interested to read about? I know a cat is not an ape but my cat plays fetch and she sits in a chair when she eats her dinner. I've just always thought it more human see cat do.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103351 Nov 27, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
How do they measure things like guilt vs sadness and the wanting to understand the world they live in? That I would be interested to read about? I know a cat is not an ape but my cat plays fetch and she sits in a chair when she eats her dinner. I've just always thought it more human see cat do.

I did post a link for you.

http://earthsky.org/human-world/barbara-king-...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103352 Nov 27, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong thread.:)

Serves me right for having two forums open at once.

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