It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
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KAB

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#102386
Nov 19, 2012
 
Tyler in _______ wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps I should have more accurately said most of the /arguments/ against evolution. Information is information but misinterpreting that information leads to flawed arguments. Although there are cases of bad science resulting in wrong information, such as the well-known thirty year old rock radiometric dating experiment. Then again that might more accurately be called blatantly dishonest.
Error acknowledgement duly noted. That leaves us with the question of which of the arguments against evolution are correct?
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#102387
Nov 19, 2012
 
Tyler in _______ wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi this is a pretty common misconception about evolution.
Mutation is a broad term that covers a number of errors that can occur during gene replication. Mutations can be base mutations, where a single base is swapped out for another, up through insertions, deletions, and at the high end the duplication, deletion, or merging of whole chunks of code.
As you can guess from all that, mutation can affect organisms at very small or very significant levels.
The big misconception is that mutations are bad. This is not so. The truth is that the vast majority of mutations have no effect whatsoever on a species' survival rate. This could mean it doesn't do anything, or that it's just an insignificant mutation like changing eye color or something.
On either end of the mutation bell curve are the beneficial and detrimental mutations, in roughly equal parts. However, the mechanisms of evolution--including, but not limited to, natural selection--tend to suppress those mutations that are "detrimental," while encouraging those mutations that are "beneficial," leading to a relatively quick gene fixation.
The conclusion, then, is that mutations only rarely have an effect on survivability, which is why evolution takes so long to do anything significant. You yourself, in fact, were born with anywhere between 60 and 200 mutations alone, along with every other human on Earth. The fact that we only rarely hear about babies born with detrimental mutations, e.g. certain kinds of giantism, or beneficial mutations, e.g. the "German superboy," should put this misconception to rest.
I beg to defer; as a matter of fact, I have company:

Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#102388
Nov 19, 2012
 
Tyler in _______ wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is that most information that disproves evolution is... well, wrong. You saw how common the mutation misconception is and how easy it is to fall into it. The case is similar for things like the sad strawman of information theory that creationists like to trot out, the global flood hypothesis, and more: all based on flawed understandings or outright denial of facts, motivated by non-scientific goals.
In addition, while popular consensus is not an indication of truth /per se/, scientific consensus is a special case. Scientific consensus is the agreement between the vast majority of experts in the field. While consensus does not mean incontestable, in general, if 99.99% of people that study a subject for years say a particular thing about that subject, then it is probably safe to say that it is as close to true as we are going to get at this moment in time.
Last of all, it should be noted that creationists and evolution proponents are not even close to being on even footing in terms of intellectual integrity. Ted Hovind, famous for holding a degree from patriot bible college and having penned the single worst graduate thesis in the history of ever, and Ray "Banana Man" "I Have Scientific Proof of God" Comfort are both counted among the ranks of creationists, which wouldn't be such a terrible thing if creationists would quit quoting them as if they actually had any authority. The nearest example I can think of on the other side is Richard Dawkins, and his only real flaw is that he's just not a particularly nice person, not anything with his scientific education or research. Further, creationist sources have a very bad habit of misrepresenting information, be it by misquotes, bad research, or worse. AiG and CRM are both examples: look up the "great secret of paleontology" quote by Stephen Gould and see how many of their articles take it as proof that paleontologists are enacting some great conspiracy against God. It's almost painful to look at. While some evolution supporters are surely guilty of the same, they're not nearly as frequent, nor do you tend to see it in popular sources such as TalkOrigins.
So yeah.
Its amazing how you can talk so much and say absolutely nothing; its a real paradox I tell you.

I will post this link for your review at your convenience:



And I will repeat:

Both creationists and evolutionists are full of shit.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#102389
Nov 19, 2012
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
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You have to either make something up that violates your own rules or admit that energy is potentially eternal. Do the former and regress is a problem. Do the latter and it is not (and your creator god ceases to be necessary). Logic is not your friend.
If I remember correctly I asked you some questions and up to now you have not responded.

I mentioned a few phenomena and asked how they were detectable/measurable outside of logical agreement, since the human senses cannot perceive them.

How is it that you found it convenient to evade those questions and run into something that was not directed at you?

How is it that you dont believe in philosophy yet you use philosophical terms to state your scientific understanding?

Infinite regress is related to philosophy, not scientific method as you would have me believe.

But I am willing to admit that logic is not my friend; logic is no one's friend. But I can see that it is becoming your enemy.

You are a bitch like Mark Twain; go shove your ideas where the sun dont shine.

You have nothing to teach me.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

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#102390
Nov 19, 2012
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
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And where did you learn that from? Be honest.
Most mutations are neutral. You have over 100 mutations. By your logic, you should be dead.
Come on...tell us where you heard most mutations are fatal. It wasn't in a science class. A Hovind lecture? Some creationist website? Some random fundamentalist Christian blathering on the innertubes? You can tell us.
By your description of genetic mutations we should never have existed fool.



You would have us beleive that you have this evolution thing down to a fine science but you dont:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

You may argue that non of these video means anything significant; but the fact is that there are people who are just as educated as you (though I may not be) who dont agree with you.

So all you began and will end with is what you and your little buddies desire to keep like a little teddy bear to lull themselves to sleep at night.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#102391
Nov 19, 2012
 

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LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you challenge something you are admittedly and demonstrably ignorant of? Learn first, and only after that should you attempt to challenge (with evidence). You're just another blithering idiot until you fix that gaping hole in your brain. Fill it with legitimate education.
If I was seeking legitimate information, I am certainly not going to find it in here.

We are all masters of our own devices; so the fact that you made up your theories automatically suggests that you know it better than anyone else. So there is no shame in not understanding or knowing your little manufactured knowledge.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

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#102392
Nov 19, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>... We make our way, we make our own purpose...
Duh!

You forgot to mention that you make up your own information too.

But thats ok, just dont try to convince us that you are intelligent for doing so.

“I Am No One Else”

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#102393
Nov 19, 2012
 
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
What kind of a miserable creature would take the liberty to suggest that being vital or not, denotes vestigiality eg finger. This must be another great line of knowledge from some cartoon strip called 'poofing definitions'.
It is the evo moron scientific community that initially suggested vestigial refers to no function at all.
These evo loosers then had to scurry off and scratch around some more because that was yet another failed evolutionary prediction.
So off they all scurry and redefine the definition of vestigial to mean a 'different' function, because what these loosers call vestigial organs actually do have function eg appendix, coccyx.
These are the very same story tellers you are defending.
It is surely true that evolutionists have little clue about the theory they are defending and and have no clue about the warty facts that underlie TOE.
It's left over from the tail, that makes it vestigial. Your lack of understanding biology is akin to people who are too lazy to learn anything more than one book.

Again, what purpose does the gallbladder serve?

“I Am No One Else”

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#102394
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Duh!
You forgot to mention that you make up your own information too.
But thats ok, just dont try to convince us that you are intelligent for doing so.
No, christians are the ones who interpret their books based on what they want it to say, not me.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

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#102395
Nov 19, 2012
 

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Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure what you did not understand.
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't know there is infinite regress and scientific searching always leads to greater understanding and application.
What is the alternative? Live in caves?
As we search for more details we find useful information. Were we wrong to look for atoms? Were we wrong to break them apart and find out what was inside? Were we wrong to hypothesize subatomic particles?...... etc. Science consistently uncovers new information and much of this useful information is useful in technology in our lives. Do you want to run away from the benefits science provides.
"We don't know there is infinite regress..."

Could you explain what that expression means?

If you are saying that reality of infinite regress is not confirmed; then you should really phuque off and shut up when you hear people speaking of a possible "cause of causes".

No one can run away from the benefits science provides; the average human uses science without even thinking about it. You make it sound as if you have the copyright for all science and scientific processes. But even if you did, we still wouldnt give a phuque.

Both you evolutionists and creationists are full of shit, like crabs.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

Kingston, Jamaica

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#102396
Nov 19, 2012
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Mutation is one of the main mechanisms of evolution:
Mutation (and biased mutation)
Selection
Genetic Drift
Gene Flow
Genetic Hitchhiking
Outcomes of these are:
Adaptation
Co-evolution
Co-operation
Mutation is discussed at length here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation
Mutation is also discussed here:

&fe ature=related

“Darwin was right..of course.”

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#102397
Nov 19, 2012
 
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Error acknowledgement duly noted. That leaves us with the question of which of the arguments against evolution are correct?
Well, since the TOE has stood the test of time and science for over a hundred and fifty years and gets stronger everyday, and is supported by every scientific organization on earth, I predict that it will be found that no arguments against it will stand.

And, since today's science has repeatedly found that many of the stories in the Bible are mythical; I predict that before this century is out that religion in the US will degrade to the point that we find in Scandinavia today i.e. not much happenin' jack.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

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#102398
Nov 19, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
No, christians are the ones who interpret their books based on what they want it to say, not me.
Christians interpret their books based on what they want; but how does that justify you interpreting real life the way you want?

Everything was going fine until you began to redicule other people's beliefs.

But "the measure that you measure will be measured back unto you"; so the standard you use to discriminate will be effective against you... by the Law Of Equality (L.O.E.)

“I Am No One Else”

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#102399
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians interpret their books based on what they want; but how does that justify you interpreting real life the way you want?
Everything was going fine until you began to redicule other people's beliefs.
But "the measure that you measure will be measured back unto you"; so the standard you use to discriminate will be effective against you... by the Law Of Equality (L.O.E.)
I don't ridicule their beliefs, I want the theists to get the mental help they need for their delusion.

Also, I don't interpret anything that is not art, and that is all that does need interpreting.

Finally, learn to spell.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish

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#102400
Nov 19, 2012
 
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, since the TOE has stood the test of time and science for over a hundred and fifty years and gets stronger everyday, and is supported by every scientific organization on earth, I predict that it will be found that no arguments against it will stand.
And, since today's science has repeatedly found that many of the stories in the Bible are mythical; I predict that before this century is out that religion in the US will degrade to the point that we find in Scandinavia today i.e. not much happenin' jack.
Quit beating around the bushes like a pussy.

Let me tell you straight up:

Archeology has found no proof that any of the patriarch existed.

There is no archaeological proof that David nor Solomon nor their successes nor wealth nor assets ever existed.

There is no proof that the flood regarding Noah not the exodus from Egypt ever happened.

But you know what? We dont give a phoque!!!!!

None of it matters eventually; whether they were real or not. Even if they were real, we would still be obligated to find our own meaning and purpose in/from God. And just because David or Moses (if they are real) and God were pals, doesnt mean that I have to be or will be. Their experiences and fortune with God is their own; I would have to seek mine.

Both evolutionists and creationists shit talkers.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#102401
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
Both you evolutionists and creationists are full of shit, like crabs.
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
Everything was going fine until you began to redicule other people's beliefs.
Interesting.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#102402
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
Both evolutionists and creationists shit talkers.
And again.

BTW, we already know that shit.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#102403
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
Mutation is also discussed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Z4ylfLqiyRoXX&feature=rel ated

Ignoring the fact that it looks like it was done in the 60's, it was just one lie after another. Pablum for the masses who they know won't bother to check out their claims.

ďBut I donít want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you canít help that," said the Cat: "weíre all mad here. Iím mad. Youíre mad."
"How do you know Iím mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, or you wouldnít have come here.Ē
&#8213; Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

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Everett, WA

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#102404
Nov 19, 2012
 
And regardless of what the creationist nuts say research goes on:

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-featu...
Tyler in _______

Drexel Hill, PA

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#102405
Nov 19, 2012
 
Evil-lotion is Rub-ish wrote:
<quoted text>
I beg to defer; as a matter of fact, I have company:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =db_do4ECvZAXX
The really sad thing is that this professor has a habilitation degree in forest genetics and yet apparently has no knowledge of the famous e coli long term evolution experiment. Or the lactose tolerance mutation. Or basically any of the beneficial mutations observed in the human population alone.

Do you see what I mean about creationists tending to be dishonest :/ even from a logical standpoint it makes no sense to say that no beneficial mutations ever take place. There is absolutely nothing to prevent a beneficial mutation from occuring.

Heck, even in his own field of dendrology, the continued existence of the non-poisonous almond should lay this kind of misunderstanding to rest.

Even AiG admits that beneficial mutations can and do happen. I've said before that their Arguments Creationists Should Avoid article is the single useful resource on that site, and I'll say it again.

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