It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

Full story: Asheville Citizen-Times

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...
Comments
97,181 - 97,200 of 136,281 Comments Last updated 6 min ago

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#99148 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The lock-up issue is what makes it not analogous to the Bible reliability scenario.
By the way, you are now realizing what marksman11 realized: if you answer questions, you will have to justify the answers, and you will be held to them, no matter how logically absurd it forces you to be. If it means forcing you into contradicting yourself or your faith, that is what will be done. Your words, your problem. I'm just enforcing the rules of logic. Logic is NEVER the ally of the creationist.

So, is your faith a non-factor in your life, or should you be forced to prove your innocence? Your distinction, your logical consequences. If you want to avoid such quandaries in the future, either think before you speak or stop answering questions (again).

By the way, don't think I don't realize that you're trying to avoid answering this question. But, as this was your final issue with the question, I'm sure you'll tell us whether the Bible's factual accuracy means nothing as it regards your actions in life or whether you should be locked up and forced to prove your innocence.

Pick your pony and ride it.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99149 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text>Nero isnt the anti-christ! Nero never brought fire from heaven REV 13:13 Nero didnt decieve the whole world!Rev 13:14 Nero didnt built an image to be worship or otherwise they would be killed.Rev 13:15 Nero never cause his own people to be mark with 666 on their right hand or foreheads.

You have apparently never heard of metaphor. Nero actually did all these things (in the eyes of the early Christians, at least).

Do some reading:

Nero as the Antichrist
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopa...

http://www.equip.org/articles/who-is-the-anti...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#99150 Oct 4, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, he wants you to show him an expansion bottleneck. You know, when the breeding population constricts to a critically low number because the population is growing so much. DUH. If you can't understand "population decreasing as a result of population increasing," maybe you're too stupid for this conversation.
Hah.

I was wondering about that myself - now it all makes sense!

*helpless laughter*

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99151 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text> Havent you met Isaiah yet?LOL Isaiah chapter 53,
He (christ) shall grow as a tender plant! There was no beauty that we should desire him! A Man od sorrows! He was wounded for our transgressions! He was Bruised! Dont you see him yet!LOL Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in our image! US who is US! Luke 10:17 And he said to them I saw satan fall like lighting from heaven!He not only in the old test but before the old test was written!!!!

More fundy nonsense.

Isaiah 53 is about the nation of Israel. It is not a prophecy.

Look for a Jewish translation direct from Hebrew to English and it will become clearer.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99152 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text>Those who dont believe in the Exodus needs to tell the Jews why they even today still celebrate the PASSOVER!!!They have done this for more than 3,500 yrs, even Mary the mother of Jesus did it also!

Do you have a point for this? Actually we only know of this being celebrated for about 2,500 (max) years with any certainty.

The Torah, which contains the story of the exodus, was formed in the period of the Babylonian exile (5th century BCE) or shortly after.[3] The traditions behind the exodus narrative are older, and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century prophets.[4] How far beyond that the tradition might stretch cannot be told:

" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus" ;

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99153 Oct 4, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, he wants you to show him an expansion bottleneck. You know, when the breeding population constricts to a critically low number because the population is growing so much. DUH. If you can't understand "population decreasing as a result of population increasing," maybe you're too stupid for this conversation.

My dumb. I am sorry for existing.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99154 Oct 4, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, you are now realizing what marksman11 realized: if you answer questions, you will have to justify the answers, and you will be held to them, no matter how logically absurd it forces you to be. If it means forcing you into contradicting yourself or your faith, that is what will be done. Your words, your problem. I'm just enforcing the rules of logic. Logic is NEVER the ally of the creationist.
So, is your faith a non-factor in your life, or should you be forced to prove your innocence? Your distinction, your logical consequences. If you want to avoid such quandaries in the future, either think before you speak or stop answering questions (again).
By the way, don't think I don't realize that you're trying to avoid answering this question. But, as this was your final issue with the question, I'm sure you'll tell us whether the Bible's factual accuracy means nothing as it regards your actions in life or whether you should be locked up and forced to prove your innocence.
Pick your pony and ride it.

People do not say what they believe so much as they believe what they say.
Tonya

Pell City, AL

#99155 Oct 4, 2012
andy wrote:
What a load of pre-1930's ignorant garbage.
The writer obviously has no education in anything remotely scientific, and is simply offering a simple minded opinion based on fundamentalist religious bias.
Okay, I am a very well educated Christian with a scientific mind. I want a Real discussion with both parties being open minded and anyone that has differing opinions to stop being called ignorant. A lot of people called Darwin ignorant in the beginning because his views differed from their own. He did do a lot in the scientific field on adaptation, etc. I want to get information and understanding. One of my problems with the whole theory is in science. Some animals have less than a 2% difference in DNA from our own yet we can Not cross breed. In evolution, two of the species would have to evolve at Exactly the same rate (male and female) with DNA compatibility to be able to mate and continue the species. Different types of birds can mate to make a new species of birds. Plants and flowers can be cross pollinated to make a new species of plant or flower. In the scientific realm of things, we would not be evolved from apes but be apes ourselves. So with millions of years having one small evolutionary change doesn't prove sensible that so many did this at exactly the same time and had the ability to mate because of DNA compatibility then could not mate. I look at science, such as splitting the atom and creating something as powerful and dynamic as an atomic bomb. Something that powerful that we can not see with the naked eye lets me know their are some things a LOT more powerful that we can even fathom or see. Our human bodies are a miraculous gift in how they work down to the smallest enzymes. Studying the body, their was a woman that was on her death bed from one small seemingly insignificant enzyme that malfunctioned and how so many things in our body working together to make each persons individual make up. I don't see as God created good and evil. God created man with freewill and man chooses good and evil. He created life..we choose what to do with it.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#99156 Oct 4, 2012
Tonya wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I am a very well educated Christian with a scientific mind.... God created man with freewill and man chooses good and evil. He created life..we choose what to do with it.
So, being that you're so scientific, you know that you can't just make assertions without evidence to support them. And, as you are so scientific, you know what constitutes evidence and what doesn't.

We don't accept gullibility as a valid reason to accept a claim as true.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#99157 Oct 4, 2012
Tonya wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I am a very well educated Christian with a scientific mind. I want a Real discussion with both parties being open minded and anyone that has differing opinions to stop being called ignorant. <<snipped for Topix character limit>>
Welcome, Tonya. Not sure what your position is on the debate, but assuming you have NOT seen the following site, please check out "The Clergy Letter Project". Science, INCLUDING THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, does not require you to disavow a Supreme Being.

http://www.theclergyletterproject.org/Christi...
12,822 Christian Clergy signatures as of 9/30/12

"Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts.

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth."

<<end cut/paste>>

It's a WONDERFUL resource to begin your research.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#99158 Oct 4, 2012
Tonya wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I am a very well educated Christian with a scientific mind. I want a Real discussion with both parties being open minded and anyone that has differing opinions to stop being called ignorant. A lot of people called Darwin ignorant in the beginning because his views differed from their own. He did do a lot in the scientific field on adaptation, etc. I want to get information and understanding. One of my problems with the whole theory is in science. Some animals have less than a 2% difference in DNA from our own yet we can Not cross breed. In evolution, two of the species would have to evolve at Exactly the same rate (male and female) with DNA compatibility to be able to mate and continue the species. Different types of birds can mate to make a new species of birds. Plants and flowers can be cross pollinated to make a new species of plant or flower. In the scientific realm of things, we would not be evolved from apes but be apes ourselves. So with millions of years having one small evolutionary change doesn't prove sensible that so many did this at exactly the same time and had the ability to mate because of DNA compatibility then could not mate. I look at science, such as splitting the atom and creating something as powerful and dynamic as an atomic bomb. Something that powerful that we can not see with the naked eye lets me know their are some things a LOT more powerful that we can even fathom or see. Our human bodies are a miraculous gift in how they work down to the smallest enzymes. Studying the body, their was a woman that was on her death bed from one small seemingly insignificant enzyme that malfunctioned and how so many things in our body working together to make each persons individual make up. I don't see as God created good and evil. God created man with freewill and man chooses good and evil. He created life..we choose what to do with it.
Thank you ever so much, Tonya. We haven't played 'Silly Fundie Game #133 in quite some time.

#133 I find the arguments for evolution quite interesting but I have a few questions.
KAB

United States

#99159 Oct 4, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really saying your belief in the Bible's factual accuracy in no way affects any actions you take? If this is what you're saying, then you have drawn a distinction. However, if you do act upon your acceptance of the Bible as a factually accurate account of reality, then your distinction is nonsense. You just said this was the REMAINING non-parallel, so if you end up giving up on this distinction, you're still left with the question: should you be locked up or not?
No, I'm not saying the Bible's info doesn't affect actions. My point is that human actions harmful to another against his will are not required no matter what the Bible states about him.

BTW, I purposely categorized this concern as "a" not "the" remaining non-parallel since I knew you would seek to use the other for entrapment which, in your eagerness to do so, you did incorrectly anyway. Such behavior probably brings words such as miserable, pitiful, little, and (loosely) man to your mind.
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99160 Oct 4, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You have apparently never heard of metaphor. Nero actually did all these things (in the eyes of the early Christians, at least).
Do some reading:
Nero as the Antichrist
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopa...
http://www.equip.org/articles/who-is-the-anti...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero
Nero did not do this things! How can Nero insert a chip IN their forehead or In their right hand?LOL Nero and so many other can be anti- christs but only one will have all this features,The real anti-christ needs to be smart, know many languages,political genius,make a 7 yr covenant with Isreal ,He will attempt to destroy all of Israel, He will not regard the god of his fathesr,He will not have the dirsire of women.
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99161 Oct 4, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have a point for this? Actually we only know of this being celebrated for about 2,500 (max) years with any certainty.
The Torah, which contains the story of the exodus, was formed in the period of the Babylonian exile (5th century BCE) or shortly after.[3] The traditions behind the exodus narrative are older, and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century prophets.[4] How far beyond that the tradition might stretch cannot be told:
" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus" ;
Dont you know what a Passover is?and where it oringinate?LOL

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#99162 Oct 4, 2012
Tonya wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I am a very well educated Christian with a scientific mind. I want a Real discussion with both parties being open minded and anyone that has differing opinions to stop being called ignorant. A lot of people called Darwin ignorant in the beginning because his views differed from their own. He did do a lot in the scientific field on adaptation, etc. I want to get information and understanding. One of my problems with the whole theory is in science. Some animals have less than a 2% difference in DNA from our own yet we can Not cross breed. In evolution, two of the species would have to evolve at Exactly the same rate (male and female) with DNA compatibility to be able to mate and continue the species. Different types of birds can mate to make a new species of birds. Plants and flowers can be cross pollinated to make a new species of plant or flower. In the scientific realm of things, we would not be evolved from apes but be apes ourselves. So with millions of years having one small evolutionary change doesn't prove sensible that so many did this at exactly the same time and had the ability to mate because of DNA compatibility then could not mate. I look at science, such as splitting the atom and creating something as powerful and dynamic as an atomic bomb. Something that powerful that we can not see with the naked eye lets me know their are some things a LOT more powerful that we can even fathom or see. Our human bodies are a miraculous gift in how they work down to the smallest enzymes. Studying the body, their was a woman that was on her death bed from one small seemingly insignificant enzyme that malfunctioned and how so many things in our body working together to make each persons individual make up. I don't see as God created good and evil. God created man with freewill and man chooses good and evil. He created life..we choose what to do with it.
Sounds as though your mind is already made up.

God created that one small seemingly insignificant malfunctioning enzyme, did he not?
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99163 Oct 4, 2012
Count the number A=7 B=14 C=21 and so on adding 7 till you reach Z than look up every number by the letters kissinger and it totals to 666. Look up every number that behind FOX and it totals666! That why Fox News is all Nazis!!!LOLOLOLOL

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99164 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text>Nero did not do this things! How can Nero insert a chip IN their forehead or In their right hand?LOL Nero and so many other can be anti- christs but only one will have all this features,The real anti-christ needs to be smart, know many languages,political genius,make a 7 yr covenant with Isreal ,He will attempt to destroy all of Israel, He will not regard the god of his fathesr,He will not have the dirsire of women.

LOL.

You have read too many Christian fiction novels. WAY too many!

And you are merging two different stories. The OT story does not talk about the same historic events as the NT story. They use similar imagery, but not the same.

Again, the reference I gave you (especially the first one) clarify all of this and put it in proper biblical/historical context.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99165 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text>Dont you know what a Passover is?and where it oringinate?LOL

You are not reading.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have a point for this? Actually we only know of this being celebrated for about 2,500 (max) years with any certainty.
The Torah, which contains the story of the exodus, was formed in the period of the Babylonian exile (5th century BCE) or shortly after.[3] The traditions behind the exodus narrative are older, and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century prophets.[4] How far beyond that the tradition might stretch cannot be told:
" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus" ; ;


these were oral traditions which, by their nature, changed from generation to generation. Have you ever played the game of "Telephone"? Did you see how screwed up a story became in just a few minuets with just 10 or so people?

2 pre-Israelites could have left Egypt in a huff and a thousand years later it became "The Exodus". We don't know what we don't know. Our earliest records are 1,000 years AFTER the alleged "Exodus".

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99166 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
Count the number A=7 B=14 C=21 and so on adding 7 till you reach Z than look up every number by the letters kissinger and it totals to 666. Look up every number that behind FOX and it totals666! That why Fox News is all Nazis!!!LOLOLOLOL

You really live in your own little world. You are clearly not familiar with how the Hebrews did numerology.

Why don't you check out this stuff before posting?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#99167 Oct 4, 2012
forreal wrote:
<quoted text>Nero did not do this things! How can Nero insert a chip IN their forehead or In their right hand?LOL Nero and so many other can be anti- christs but only one will have all this features,The real anti-christ needs to be smart, know many languages,political genius,make a 7 yr covenant with Isreal ,He will attempt to destroy all of Israel, He will not regard the god of his fathesr,He will not have the dirsire of women.
Now you're just being strange.

(The Bible talks about chips? Computer, or fish-and-?)

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Evolution Theory Facing Crisis 1 hr Chimney1 210
Should evolution be taught in high school? (Feb '08) 1 hr Chimney1 172,539
Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 2 hr macumazahn 115,252
Genetic 'Adam' and 'Eve' Uncovered - live science (Sep '13) 7 hr susanblange 321
Science News (Sep '13) Aug 28 positronium 2,848
The Satanic Character of Social Darwinism Aug 27 Zog Has-fallen 343
Natural Selection Not The Only Process That Dri... (Jan '14) Aug 25 reMAAT 20
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Evolution Debate People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••