It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the ...

It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

There are 142809 comments on the Asheville Citizen-Times story from Mar 15, 2009, titled It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate. In it, Asheville Citizen-Times reports that:

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Asheville Citizen-Times.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99121 Oct 3, 2012
forreal wrote:
"The anti-christ according to the book of daniel does not marry or is in anyway a lover of women!"

The anti-Christ is mentioned in the Old Testament?
That's a new one on me, I didn't even know Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament!

Please give us a reference by chapter and verse.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99122 Oct 3, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
"You and I both know he can't disprove the Exodus, or the Tower of Babel, or the resurrection of Jesus."

So we all have to believe everything we can’t disprove?
My, that’s a tall order!

Sun Myung Moon says that God appointed him as Lord of the Second Advent, King of the United States, and Emperor of the Universe.

Disprove that.

According to a self-proclaimed prophet, we were all going to get killed on December 18, 1996. When the date passed without incident, this self-proclaimed prophet said that we all got killed, but we got reincarnated as holograms.

Disprove that.

According to the Black Muslims, the White race was created by a mad scientist named Yakub, who lived on an island off the coast of Africa. His intent was to persecute God’s chosen people.

Disprove that.

According to the Mormons, God lives on a planet called Kolob with a harem of thousands of wives. We are all reincarnations of people who lived on Kolob.

Disprove that.

According to the Scientologists, there was an interplanetary emperor, name Xenu, whose domain was becoming overpopulated. He tricked thousands of his citizens into submitting to a vacinnation which put them to sleep, had them brought to Earth, lined them around craters of volcanoes, and killed with hydrogen bombs dropped into the volcanoes. While their souls were floating away, he had their souls captured and brainwashed with the religious and political doctrines which we hear today. We are all reincarnations of citizens in Xenu’s empire.

Disprove that.

According to the Aetherians, there is an interplanetary parliament of Cosmic Masters which holds regular meetings on Venus. Jesus was a reincarnation of the Cosmic Master from Venus. What we thought was the Star of Bethlehem was really a Venusian spacecraft hovering overhead. In more recent times, the Cosmic Master from Mars rescued us while driving an invisible, radar-proof, two-mile-long spacecraft. We were about to have our ocean basin drained by a group of beings from the other end of the galaxy.

Disprove that.

Either believe all these silly stories, disprove all these silly stories, or explain why we have to believe in the Exodus, the Tower of Babel, and the resurrection of Jesus.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99123 Oct 3, 2012
MikeF wrote:
“’Part of a kind’! Too funny!”

KAB wrote:
“It's only funny to those who are ignorant regarding the definition.”

WHAT definition?
I’ve read everything Duane Gish wrote on the subject, and he never gives a clear definition.
The only definition I can think of is that any common household word is a kind.
If I recall correctly, Gish regards beetles, spiders, and earthworms as kinds, despite the fact that those terms cover oodlums of species.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99124 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
What happened genetically when the human population expanded across the region now known as the Bering straight?
There were three migrations.
At least, that's what we get from a study of Native American languages.
Also, that's what we get from a DNA study.
At the time, neither party knew that the other study was taking place, yet they both arrived at an identical grouping of the Native American tribes.

I don't remember the estimated dates of those migrations, but they sure as heck were earlier than 4500 BC.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99125 Oct 3, 2012
MIDutch wrote:
There is NO research, NO empirical evidence, NO science in support of the following:
The cosmos was magically conjured into existence with a magic "word".

Marksman11 wrote:
“Then please pray tell, how did the cosmos come into being?”

I’m not sure.
I think that a god hatched from a giant egg and broke it in half, thereby creating Heaven and Earth.
At least, that’s the Chinese theory.

Or maybe the Prince of Heaven looked down from the sky and decided to rule the Earth. So he came down from the sky, leaving his father who was the King of Heaven, but bringing an entourage of loyal subjects. A she-bear prayed to become a human woman. The Prince of Heaven honored her prayer, married her, and sired a son who ruled Korea for 1500 years..
At least, that’s the Korean theory.

Or it could be that in a great god got sick and upchucked the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. The god upchucked again, thereby creating the moon, the stars, animals, and people.
At least, that’s the Bantu theory.

Or possibly the Earth was at one time submerged by a giant ocean. A little water beetle came down from the sky to explore, dived below the surface, and brought up a supply of mud which expanded.
At least, that’s the Cherokee theory.

Marksman11 wrote:
“Give us the ‘scientific evidence’.”
That would be nice, but that’s the best I can do, because you can’t give us anything better.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99126 Oct 3, 2012
MIDutch wrote:
"So, go ahead and explain them. Go ahead and give your list of the various 'kinds' and the MILLIONS of species and which 'kinds' they belong in.
Since you know what they are, that shouldn't be too hard.
Why don't you start with the fish 'kinds'... or are fish all just one 'kind'?

KAB wrote:
"I've already explained them. It's in the forum record. Do your homework."

I don't remember that, and neither, apparently, does MIDutch.
Note, however, that your post was on page 4853.
Could you please give us the page number where this brilliant explanation appeared?
Or do MIDutch and I have to read the entire first 4853 pages?

You probably learned this nifty little trck from Tyll Eulenspiegel.
Eulenspiegel was in an unfamiliar village, posing as a learned scholar.
To test his learning, a panel of local scholars was formed.
A member of the panel asked him for the dimensions of the Heavens.
Eulenspiegel answered with a numerical figure, and then said, "If you climb up, bring down all the pieces, and measure all the pieces, you will see that I am right."

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99127 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
"If you were halfway attentive you would know that the bottleneck was 8."

Okay, so your opponent was wrong.
He forgot that Noah took 7 trusty crewmen on board.

While we're at it, we must remember that Noah took 7 of every clean animal and 2 of every unclean animal.

But all you have is a case for an ad hom.
The ball is still in your court.
Where is there evidence for a bottleneck of 8 in the human species, 2 of every unclean kind, and 7 of every unclean kind, all happening at 2500 BC?

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99128 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
You love pseudoscience.
I do too.
I think it's hilarious.
So does Martin Gardner, and probably for the same reason.
If you share my passion for the bizarre, read some of Martin Gardner's books.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99129 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
Hundreds of year to repopulate the world, to relearn the Egyptian language (which they continued to use throughout thousands of years), and to relearn pyramid building and to pick up where their predecessors left off.....
That is a laugh.
Are you sure about that global flood?
Actually, the nation of Egypt was named after Egyptus, who was Ham's wife.
Egyptus was a descendent of Cain, and through her, all of the Back people of Africa became descendents of Cain.
Dark skin was the mark of Cain, which is why they all have dark skin.

Furthermore, they are all reincarnations of people who lived sinful lives on Kolob.

Don't believe this?
Don't argue with me, argue with the Mormons.

No, I just remembered:
The Mormons had to sweep all this under the rug.
Because the Federal court told them to grant equality to Blacks or lose their tax-exempt status.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99130 Oct 3, 2012
forreal wrote:
“if you think money can get you a better education why dont you ask the Bushes and Diane Sawer many others in the media who took their clothes off at colleges for a mug shot?LOLOLOL”

I’m not sure what you mean here, FR.
Do you mean that the institution of higher education is overestimated for its educational value?
Or do you mean that universities brainwash students into believing in Evolution?

Just to be on the safe side, I shall address both statements:

<<<that the institution of higher education is overestimated for its educational value>>>

No problem here.
On a forum for teachers of English as a foreign language, I have seen frequent messages asking how valuable a certification program is.
I always answer that I have gone through the certification program, but that I could remember very little which I am applying in my work today—except for two term papers on topic which I was interested in.

I can name many topics which I have studied outside of school. I had to learn the Korean language on my own when I was in Korea, and I am having to learn the Chinese language on my own now that I am in China. I learned to play Korean folk instruments then, and I am learning to play Chinese folk instruments now.

If you want to be a thorn in the flesh for all the Evolutionists on this thread, then I invite you to order a boxload of books, both pro and con, from Amazon.

<<<that universities brainwash students into believing in Evolution>>>

I cannot speak for others, but this was certainly not true in my case.
During my undergraduate years, I only heard Evolution mentioned briefly once in geology class.
I became interested in Evolution when I was doing independent research on psychology.
At the time I began that research, Evolution was the farthest thing from my mind.
However, I came to the conclusion that much could be explained by Evolutionary psychology.
You may have seen my message addressed to marksman11, in which I recount this experience.
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99131 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
forreal, where is there a city built on seven hills except Rome?
Nero isnt the anti-christ! Nero never brought fire from heaven REV 13:13 Nero didnt decieve the whole world!Rev 13:14 Nero didnt built an image to be worship or otherwise they would be killed.Rev 13:15 Nero never cause his own people to be mark with 666 on their right hand or foreheads.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99132 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I have 8 at 4500 (Genesis 8:15,16).

I am starting to appreciate your senseless humor.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99133 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
They all belong to one kind.

Then your definition of "Kind" as "yielding/bearing" is sort of refuted....

Okay, that isn't true... It is completely and totally refuted.

Now we have kinds that that can't breed. Isn't that a problem... a bit,.... a tad???

----------


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
So a ring species is a kind till it gets to a species it cannot breed with, correct?
So, here is the problem:
A can breed with B, C and sometimes D, but not E or F
B can breed with with C, D, and E but not F.
C can breed with D, E and not F.
D can breed with E, but not F
E can breed with F but not A
How many Kinds are represented here?
Which combinations are kinds and not kinds?
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99134 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
forreal wrote:
"The anti-christ according to the book of daniel does not marry or is in anyway a lover of women!"
The anti-Christ is mentioned in the Old Testament?
That's a new one on me, I didn't even know Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament!
Please give us a reference by chapter and verse.
Havent you met Isaiah yet?LOL Isaiah chapter 53,
He (christ) shall grow as a tender plant! There was no beauty that we should desire him! A Man od sorrows! He was wounded for our transgressions! He was Bruised! Dont you see him yet!LOL Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in our image! US who is US! Luke 10:17 And he said to them I saw satan fall like lighting from heaven!He not only in the old test but before the old test was written!!!!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99135 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You apparently missed the article relating that there's an "Arctic Ocean" worth of water contained in the rock down below.

Nope, I did not miss that. That raises the ocean level maybe a few hundred FEET. You need MILES of water.
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99136 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
marksman11 wrote:
"You and I both know he can't disprove the Exodus, or the Tower of Babel, or the resurrection of Jesus."
So we all have to believe everything we can’t disprove?
My, that’s a tall order!
Sun Myung Moon says that God appointed him as Lord of the Second Advent, King of the United States, and Emperor of the Universe.
Disprove that.
According to a self-proclaimed prophet, we were all going to get killed on December 18, 1996. When the date passed without incident, this self-proclaimed prophet said that we all got killed, but we got reincarnated as holograms.
Disprove that.
According to the Black Muslims, the White race was created by a mad scientist named Yakub, who lived on an island off the coast of Africa. His intent was to persecute God’s chosen people.
Disprove that.
According to the Mormons, God lives on a planet called Kolob with a harem of thousands of wives. We are all reincarnations of people who lived on Kolob.
Disprove that.
According to the Scientologists, there was an interplanetary emperor, name Xenu, whose domain was becoming overpopulated. He tricked thousands of his citizens into submitting to a vacinnation which put them to sleep, had them brought to Earth, lined them around craters of volcanoes, and killed with hydrogen bombs dropped into the volcanoes. While their souls were floating away, he had their souls captured and brainwashed with the religious and political doctrines which we hear today. We are all reincarnations of citizens in Xenu’s empire.
Disprove that.
According to the Aetherians, there is an interplanetary parliament of Cosmic Masters which holds regular meetings on Venus. Jesus was a reincarnation of the Cosmic Master from Venus. What we thought was the Star of Bethlehem was really a Venusian spacecraft hovering overhead. In more recent times, the Cosmic Master from Mars rescued us while driving an invisible, radar-proof, two-mile-long spacecraft. We were about to have our ocean basin drained by a group of beings from the other end of the galaxy.
Disprove that.
Either believe all these silly stories, disprove all these silly stories, or explain why we have to believe in the Exodus, the Tower of Babel, and the resurrection of Jesus.
Those who dont believe in the Exodus needs to tell the Jews why they even today still celebrate the PASSOVER!!!They have done this for more than 3,500 yrs, even Mary the mother of Jesus did it also!
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#99137 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
They all belong to one kind.
Then we are the same kind as the other hominids. The DNA sword cuts both ways. If you can have cousins, then so can humanity.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99138 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Now that you've done the heavy lifting, all you need to do is provide the data and run the numbers.

I will leave that to you. My position is that it did not happen and writing fiction is not my strong suit.
forreal

Sinton, TX

#99139 Oct 4, 2012
Thomas Robertson wrote:
forreal wrote:
“if you think money can get you a better education why dont you ask the Bushes and Diane Sawer many others in the media who took their clothes off at colleges for a mug shot?LOLOLOL”
I’m not sure what you mean here, FR.
Do you mean that the institution of higher education is overestimated for its educational value?
Or do you mean that universities brainwash students into believing in Evolution?
Just to be on the safe side, I shall address both statements:
<<<that the institution of higher education is overestimated for its educational value>>>
No problem here.
On a forum for teachers of English as a foreign language, I have seen frequent messages asking how valuable a certification program is.
I always answer that I have gone through the certification program, but that I could remember very little which I am applying in my work today—except for two term papers on topic which I was interested in.
I can name many topics which I have studied outside of school. I had to learn the Korean language on my own when I was in Korea, and I am having to learn the Chinese language on my own now that I am in China. I learned to play Korean folk instruments then, and I am learning to play Chinese folk instruments now.
If you want to be a thorn in the flesh for all the Evolutionists on this thread, then I invite you to order a boxload of books, both pro and con, from Amazon.
<<<that universities brainwash students into believing in Evolution>>>
I cannot speak for others, but this was certainly not true in my case.
During my undergraduate years, I only heard Evolution mentioned briefly once in geology class.
I became interested in Evolution when I was doing independent research on psychology.
At the time I began that research, Evolution was the farthest thing from my mind.
However, I came to the conclusion that much could be explained by Evolutionary psychology.
You may have seen my message addressed to marksman11, in which I recount this experience.
U dont know that that Diane sawyer and so many other were told to take their clothes off when they enter college?LOL look it up!!!I am not doing your homework!LOL For many yrs Colleges were meant only for the whites ask Bruce Lee, did you watch the movie how they treated him in college!LOL Only in America is were fools were born back in the 1845 till now. I have never heard no other nation embracing animals and they parents like in America!!!LOL

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#99140 Oct 4, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
A population expansion bottleneck.

When searching for those terms I find articles about population expansions AFTER a bottleneck

http://scholar.google.com/scholar...

I find the expression "population expansion, bottleneck" and "population expansion/bottleneck" but no "population expansion bottleneck".

https://www.google.com/search...

What is the reason I cannot find any reference to "population expansion bottleneck", do you think?

So I ask again, what is it you are trying to find?

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