It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99108 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. And you are looking for a bottleneck of 2 individuals at 4500.
I'm sorry, you lose again. But as a consolation prize you get our home edition of the 'Topix Game'. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, I have 8 at 4500 (Genesis 8:15,16).

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#99109 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I have 8 at 4500 (Genesis 8:15,16).
Funny that there is genetic evidence for a human bottleneck for the Toba Catastrophe (1,000 to 10,000 breeding pairs, 69,000 -77,000 years ago), but they somehow overlooked a MUCH MORE DEVASTATING collapse of humanity a mere 4,500 years ago!

Toba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe...

Incidently, Noah and wife didn't have children post-flood, so the effective genetic bottleneck was only THREE breeding pairs of humans.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99110 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
So a ring species is a kind till it gets to a species it cannot breed with, correct?
So, here is the problem:
A can breed with B, C and sometimes D, but not E or F
B can breed with with C, D, and E but not F.
C can breed with D, E and not F.
D can breed with E, but not F
E can breed with F but not A
How many Kinds are represented here?
Which combinations are kinds and not kinds?
They all belong to one kind.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99111 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
False. We do not have water covering the largest mountains on earth currently and we don't have underground reserves of water enough to raise sea levels hardly at all. We have no magical drain down through which water can pass to another dimension or whatnot.
You apparently missed the article relating that there's an "Arctic Ocean" worth of water contained in the rock down below.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99112 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Part of a kind is classic. Expect this to stick with you.
I certainly hope so.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99113 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Hundreds of year to repopulate the world, to relearn the Egyptian language (which they continued to use throughout thousands of years), and to relearn pyramid building and to pick up where their predecessors left off.....
That is a laugh.
Are you sure about that global flood?
Now that you've done the heavy lifting, all you need to do is provide the data and run the numbers.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#99114 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You apparently missed the article relating that there's an "Arctic Ocean" worth of water contained in the rock down below.
That only means that for a long time water has been part of the lithological cycle. Or the cycle of rock being formed at divergence zones and being consumed at mes, I mean Subduction Zones.

There is a very reasonable way to get the water in the cycle using Uniformitarianism, there is no mechanism to get the water down there with Catastrophorism.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99115 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you looking for?
A population expansion bottleneck.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99116 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
The question was not about being tagged a child molester.... it involved being locked up for said offense.
I am really not sure of your reading comprehension skills.
The lock-up issue is what makes it not analogous to the Bible reliability scenario.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#99117 Oct 3, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Who's problem is that?. You are just being dishonest and trying to hide from the fact that you have not been able to defend ANYTHING you have claimed.
Do you think childish games like this ENHANCES your credibility?
----------
You sure you understood my post?
Apparently better than you.
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#99118 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
A population expansion bottleneck.
You'll never find one because there is no such thing. Of course, if you tell us what you think it is, perhaps we can identify the correct term for you.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#99119 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You apparently missed the article relating that there's an "Arctic Ocean" worth of water contained in the rock down below.
How much water is that, exactly?

I guess it's OK to show us the math in cubic cubits and convert to homers and ephahs at the end. I'm sure you won't cut any corners because data is very important.

If you have any trouble, don't look to us for help. Ask the Holy Spirit.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99120 Oct 3, 2012
forreal, where is there a city built on seven hills except Rome?

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99121 Oct 3, 2012
forreal wrote:
"The anti-christ according to the book of daniel does not marry or is in anyway a lover of women!"

The anti-Christ is mentioned in the Old Testament?
That's a new one on me, I didn't even know Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament!

Please give us a reference by chapter and verse.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99122 Oct 3, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
"You and I both know he can't disprove the Exodus, or the Tower of Babel, or the resurrection of Jesus."

So we all have to believe everything we canít disprove?
My, thatís a tall order!

Sun Myung Moon says that God appointed him as Lord of the Second Advent, King of the United States, and Emperor of the Universe.

Disprove that.

According to a self-proclaimed prophet, we were all going to get killed on December 18, 1996. When the date passed without incident, this self-proclaimed prophet said that we all got killed, but we got reincarnated as holograms.

Disprove that.

According to the Black Muslims, the White race was created by a mad scientist named Yakub, who lived on an island off the coast of Africa. His intent was to persecute Godís chosen people.

Disprove that.

According to the Mormons, God lives on a planet called Kolob with a harem of thousands of wives. We are all reincarnations of people who lived on Kolob.

Disprove that.

According to the Scientologists, there was an interplanetary emperor, name Xenu, whose domain was becoming overpopulated. He tricked thousands of his citizens into submitting to a vacinnation which put them to sleep, had them brought to Earth, lined them around craters of volcanoes, and killed with hydrogen bombs dropped into the volcanoes. While their souls were floating away, he had their souls captured and brainwashed with the religious and political doctrines which we hear today. We are all reincarnations of citizens in Xenuís empire.

Disprove that.

According to the Aetherians, there is an interplanetary parliament of Cosmic Masters which holds regular meetings on Venus. Jesus was a reincarnation of the Cosmic Master from Venus. What we thought was the Star of Bethlehem was really a Venusian spacecraft hovering overhead. In more recent times, the Cosmic Master from Mars rescued us while driving an invisible, radar-proof, two-mile-long spacecraft. We were about to have our ocean basin drained by a group of beings from the other end of the galaxy.

Disprove that.

Either believe all these silly stories, disprove all these silly stories, or explain why we have to believe in the Exodus, the Tower of Babel, and the resurrection of Jesus.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99123 Oct 3, 2012
MikeF wrote:
ďíPart of a kindí! Too funny!Ē

KAB wrote:
ďIt's only funny to those who are ignorant regarding the definition.Ē

WHAT definition?
Iíve read everything Duane Gish wrote on the subject, and he never gives a clear definition.
The only definition I can think of is that any common household word is a kind.
If I recall correctly, Gish regards beetles, spiders, and earthworms as kinds, despite the fact that those terms cover oodlums of species.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99124 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
What happened genetically when the human population expanded across the region now known as the Bering straight?
There were three migrations.
At least, that's what we get from a study of Native American languages.
Also, that's what we get from a DNA study.
At the time, neither party knew that the other study was taking place, yet they both arrived at an identical grouping of the Native American tribes.

I don't remember the estimated dates of those migrations, but they sure as heck were earlier than 4500 BC.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99125 Oct 3, 2012
MIDutch wrote:
There is NO research, NO empirical evidence, NO science in support of the following:
The cosmos was magically conjured into existence with a magic "word".

Marksman11 wrote:
ďThen please pray tell, how did the cosmos come into being?Ē

Iím not sure.
I think that a god hatched from a giant egg and broke it in half, thereby creating Heaven and Earth.
At least, thatís the Chinese theory.

Or maybe the Prince of Heaven looked down from the sky and decided to rule the Earth. So he came down from the sky, leaving his father who was the King of Heaven, but bringing an entourage of loyal subjects. A she-bear prayed to become a human woman. The Prince of Heaven honored her prayer, married her, and sired a son who ruled Korea for 1500 years..
At least, thatís the Korean theory.

Or it could be that in a great god got sick and upchucked the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. The god upchucked again, thereby creating the moon, the stars, animals, and people.
At least, thatís the Bantu theory.

Or possibly the Earth was at one time submerged by a giant ocean. A little water beetle came down from the sky to explore, dived below the surface, and brought up a supply of mud which expanded.
At least, thatís the Cherokee theory.

Marksman11 wrote:
ďGive us the Ďscientific evidenceí.Ē
That would be nice, but thatís the best I can do, because you canít give us anything better.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99126 Oct 3, 2012
MIDutch wrote:
"So, go ahead and explain them. Go ahead and give your list of the various 'kinds' and the MILLIONS of species and which 'kinds' they belong in.
Since you know what they are, that shouldn't be too hard.
Why don't you start with the fish 'kinds'... or are fish all just one 'kind'?

KAB wrote:
"I've already explained them. It's in the forum record. Do your homework."

I don't remember that, and neither, apparently, does MIDutch.
Note, however, that your post was on page 4853.
Could you please give us the page number where this brilliant explanation appeared?
Or do MIDutch and I have to read the entire first 4853 pages?

You probably learned this nifty little trck from Tyll Eulenspiegel.
Eulenspiegel was in an unfamiliar village, posing as a learned scholar.
To test his learning, a panel of local scholars was formed.
A member of the panel asked him for the dimensions of the Heavens.
Eulenspiegel answered with a numerical figure, and then said, "If you climb up, bring down all the pieces, and measure all the pieces, you will see that I am right."

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Qufu, China

#99127 Oct 3, 2012
KAB wrote:
"If you were halfway attentive you would know that the bottleneck was 8."

Okay, so your opponent was wrong.
He forgot that Noah took 7 trusty crewmen on board.

While we're at it, we must remember that Noah took 7 of every clean animal and 2 of every unclean animal.

But all you have is a case for an ad hom.
The ball is still in your court.
Where is there evidence for a bottleneck of 8 in the human species, 2 of every unclean kind, and 7 of every unclean kind, all happening at 2500 BC?

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