It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

“Pay it forward!”

Level 4

Since: Oct 09

Harrisburg

#72340 Jan 5, 2012
MichiganGEL wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, so how *should* it read? Remember that decimal system was not yet in use. Nor do I recall fractional numbers being used in scripture.
How long is a cubit? Specifically.
KAB

United States

#72341 Jan 5, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Cud is cud. I notice you've given up lying about it and now ignore it altogether.
I'm wait for your definition from a recognized reference. If the definition(s) you've given meet this qualification, you failed to identify the reference.

Since: Dec 06

Urbana, Illinois

#72342 Jan 5, 2012
SsixtytwoS wrote:
<quoted text>
How long is a cubit? Specifically.
Ask Bill Cosby! He might know by now:)

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#72343 Jan 5, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> Ummmm....don't you remember that they placed guards there? How are the disciples going to steal the body when they have placed guards there the whole time?

You would not make a very good criminal if you cannot think around minor details than this. Where were the guards and what were they doing in the morning.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> The guards even admitted to the resurrection and they were told to keep it quiet and to say that they had fallen asleep,...

CYA. Thought this story is likely made up as filler.

marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> and we've already seen that these men show chracter just the opposite of liers.

Actually,.... hummm..... maybe. If they were men of character why did they write under names assumed from the disciples of Jesus and Paul? Is that a man of character. Okay, there were no laws against such things and this was done all the time to give a book credibility. So lets say they were being as honest as possible ,... but still their narratives were hand down in oral tridition for years before being put into writing. AND there were many conflicting sources which they had to reconcile (imperfectly) in their books. They did the best they could, but it was not good enough for history to be certain about most things.
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text> I've already made it clear. He was buried in a known tomb. It was owned by Joseph of Aramathia, the women saw him placed there, they placed guards there, they placed a stone in front of it, and Joseph himself claimed the body and took it there.

Sorry, these are the sort of details that get confabulated out of a few blurbs. First Roman's did not give crucified bodies back, second they would not allow for the "proper" burial of a crucified person, UNLESS, you bribed the right person. Bribery could explain a LOT of what went on post crucifixion!

[QUOTE who="marksman11"] <quoted text> Morrisons book, "Who Moved the Stone", in which he, an atheist, when to the Holy land to write a book disproving the resurrection, and came home converted to Christianity and wrote a book convincing others of it's validity!!!

Only the gullible are moved by such tomes. Morrison had no facts and did not even identify historic places properly.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#72344 Jan 5, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Like I said, a person who denies the resurrection is forced to steer the debate away from the topic, than to deal with it. It is much easier to prove that Jesus lived than it is he rose from the dead. Not many informed people deny his existence anymore, and they are so deluted that it is a waste of time to debate them.

I am waiting for you......
KAB

United States

#72345 Jan 5, 2012
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, it does. You need to reread Genesis 1.
I'm the one quoting from Genesis 1 based on the original Hebrew and in the very post to which you are responding! If you have some data to offer otherwise then present it, and when I see it I'll respond.
KAB

United States

#72346 Jan 5, 2012
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
What facts are those? An incredibly vague definition from dictionary.com ? I already provided you with a link to the wiki articles for rabbits and ruminants, which include far more authoritative definitions for cud than your dictionary definition. You cling to the dictionary version because it offers you wiggle room. That is intellectual dishonesty. If you think that's what it takes to get into heaven, what does that say about the standards of your God?
I'm sorry I apparently missed that link. I will go back and try to find it, or if you want to speed the process you could provide it again.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#72347 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm the one quoting from Genesis 1 based on the original Hebrew and in the very post to which you are responding! If you have some data to offer otherwise then present it, and when I see it I'll respond.
OK, what parts of this is incorrect?

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#72348 Jan 5, 2012
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

You're up.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#72349 Jan 5, 2012
SsixtytwoS wrote:
<quoted text>
How long is a cubit? Specifically.
A standard cubit is determined thusly.

With a hadful of small stones, stand four cubits from a circle of two cubits diameter. Toss the stones toward the circle. A standard cubit is the number of stones that land within the circle multiplied by one pyramid inch. If the barley is not ripe, add one.

Since: Dec 06

Urbana, Illinois

#72350 Jan 5, 2012
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
<quoted text>
A standard cubit is determined thusly.
With a hadful of small stones, stand four cubits from a circle of two cubits diameter. Toss the stones toward the circle. A standard cubit is the number of stones that land within the circle multiplied by one pyramid inch. If the barley is not ripe, add one.
Well, if it's THAT easy to figure, why doesn't EVERYONE know that?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#72351 Jan 5, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>yOU are wrong. There is a difference between faith and blind faith. I don't incorporate blind faith in my religious beliefs. I have valid reasons of why I believe what I do.
Are those "valid reasons" related to 1.10 > 1.9? Or birds manipulating gravity? Or proximity having no effect on gravitational pull? Or aliens building the pyramids? Or planetary ice shields? Hm?

Level 2

Since: Jun 08

Franklin, NC

#72352 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
Here's at least some of the Black Sea "static changes" info,
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TFA ...

The fact that sea level, measured geologically (i.e., doesn't have one year resolution), has been "more or less as today in the last 6000 years" reconciles easily with not finding evidence of a one year impulse in sea level 4500 years ago. Reflecting this, I didn't see any indication that their data had one year resolution. Certainly, such is not what they were seeking.
You need to provide evidence that a one year "global" flood sediment load would have been so small that it would not have left an "imprint" in the sedimentary stratigraphy. Short of that - your speculations are moot.

No data = No global flood

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#72353 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry I apparently missed that link. I will go back and try to find it, or if you want to speed the process you could provide it again.
Look it up yourself. I already did the real work. Maybe if you didn't put so much effort into defending an intentionally dishonest argument, you wouldn't need to go back. Of course, you won't, because why should you do work to prove that you were being dishonest and disingenuous, and to prove that your argument is invalid? Nah, just let me do it, and then you can sit back and say "nuh uh!" It takes intellectual honesty to seek out reasons your own argument could be wrong. I doubt you've got the balls to do that, as you haven't done so once thus far. Liar.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#72354 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm wait for your definition from a recognized reference. If the definition(s) you've given meet this qualification, you failed to identify the reference.
I already provided it. You ignored it and went for a much more ambiguous and vague definition because it suited your argument's needs better. In other words, you were dishonest with me and everyone and yourself. Pathetic. I'm not doing any more of your work for you. Do it yourself. Honest people try to disprove their own arguments before throwing them out to the world. You just make shit up and then demand that everyone else disprove it, and when they do, you just continue saying they can't conclusively disprove anything, therefore your argument is valid. It's not. You're a liar, and when you're done lying to everyone including yourself, you just go ahead and let us know, liar.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#72355 Jan 5, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>But wasn't it you who said it boils down to 2 things. Either the disciples lied and knew it, or they are telling the truth? I even agreed with you, right? So now, you want to steer the discussion away from the honesty of the disciples to "Jesus never existed" and "the gospels aren't true".
Listen bluenose, it is clear you've never studied the resurrection. I've made my point over and over. You make foolish statements like you did about the resurrection and it is clear that it isn't to hard to prove you don't know what you are talking about. THat is evidenced by your reply to my 5 questions. I could ask 50 more, but you couldn't answer them either.
So let me suggest that you give christians just a little more respect, because I for one have very good reasons for believing the way I do.
You have a nice day.
How can someone study an event for which there is no evidence, and which openly defies the laws of physics and every other field of science related to life on Earth? All you've got is a few claims. Claims don't mean jack-squat.

You hump sheep. A couple of people have made this claim. How many people need to claim it for it to be true? Don't forget the 500 people who saw you do it. Now you've got 500 witnesses and two people making the claim. Why do you hump sheep?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#72356 Jan 5, 2012
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>I believe you had hit a tight bowl before you posted this my friend.
Good morning,

Nope. Between that post and the air one. Then I moved to the Fundie forum. That way I can respond to abuse with levity rather than reply in kind. It's the Christian thing to do.
(15thDL hits bowl)
Hey, if I confess my sins and pray for peace, does it really make any difference if anybody's listening?

Level 2

Since: Jun 08

Franklin, NC

#72357 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
Lack of evidence is just that, lack of evidence for or against the propostion.
I've already provided an anlysis of what could be expected after 4500 years of a population generated from 8 individuals just as I provided you the genetic diversity and bottlenecks analysis.
Finally, your reference doesn't address "old" bottlenecks. I quote, "This distortion is transient and likely to be detectable for only a few dozen generations. Consequently only recent bottlenecks are likely to be detected by tests for distortions In distributions of allele frequencies."
And yet you used similar evidence as support for your 4500 year old Middle East bottleneck claim thinking it supported your claim - when in fact - it didn't.

Evidence has been presented which has found human population bottlenecks at 50kya and 20kya only.

No data = No human pop. bottleneck 4500 years ago.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#72358 Jan 5, 2012
FossilBob wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if it's THAT easy to figure, why doesn't EVERYONE know that?
The Hebrew calandar has an irregular number of months because Passover cannot occur if the barley is not ripe, there's nothing to sacrifice but The Lamb. If the barley is not ripe, add one.
-- Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:28

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#72359 Jan 5, 2012
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
What 4500 year old unprotected man-made wooden object does exist today?
Also, feel free to provide at least some supporting data for any of the other assertions in your post. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time relative to me and any other objective onlookers.
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/behavior/...

There's a spear that's about 100x older. If a spear can survive (three, actually), why couldn't millions of tons of wood?

Also, in my research, I found information about yew spear heads that were 450k years old, and that led to information about the yew and its seeds, which are eaten by birds including...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Tit

Come on. How many times a day do you wish you could say "great tits" and explain it away? Now you can. "There were two birds! I thought they were a pair of great tits!"

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