So...how realistic is X-men?
wondering

Morris, OK

#241 Jun 6, 2014
someones opinion is just that "their opinion". it does not mean truth or fact. to censure them for there opinion is as much as a violation of the first amendment(freedom of speech) as atheists see religion in public schools a violation of the first amendment(establishment clause)

in our past homosexuals had to "stay in the closet" for fear of being censured or worse.now they are coming out of the closet and atheists seem to be trying to put the religious people in the closet.

if you do or don't believe in god that is a personal thing. to try force someone to change their self personally, their personal beliefs, or censure them for how they are personally either to accept or reject god is wrong on all accounts. now do i think religion should be pushed on anyone, not at all and i also think no one should be forced not to be able give thanks to god if that is what they believe

there is a difference from not believing in god to despising a god. many atheists will tell their kids there is no god but will entertain the existence of santa clause, easter bunny, tooth fairy etc. knowing the children will figure that all out as they grow up. entertaining the existence of those mythical figures seems "ok" but why would they want to entertain the existence of any mythical figure?

people look for hope in their daily lives in many ways. whether it is god or a lucky charm, they are simply looking for hope.

it doesn't matter if you believe god does exist or does not exist. it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, it doesn't matter if you are smart or dumb. when life leaves the body we will all end up just as dead as the next person. it is all about living life while you are alive and living it the way you feel best living it.

if you believe in god or do not believe in god, i will treat you the same.
if you are heterosexual or homosexual, i will treat you the same.
try to get me to live life like you or when the way you choose to live your life interferes with my life, that is when the problems will arise.

a hopeless world is a cold world. live and let live

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#242 Jun 6, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
What is there to refute about your link? You're delusional. You're striking at invisible dragons.
Do you think these invisible dragons should have come about through evolution? Talk about delusional, you running well up in the finals.
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#243 Jun 6, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Do you think these invisible dragons should have come about through evolution? Talk about delusional, you running well up in the finals.
Who knows. You can't really predict eventualities. Why wouldn't a series of mutations grant invisibility or fire breathing ability? If blind chance has made all we see today, it could pretty much do anything as far as we know.

When I accept my award I will thank evolution for making me predisposed to delusions, as well as not giving me the free will required to shed them.
wondering

Morris, OK

#244 Jun 6, 2014
no matter what you believe, how you live, what you follow, what you do or what you think in our world there is and will always be someone on the other side of the fence opposing it. this can be seen in every aspect of life. political, wealth, religion, morals, stature, laws, education, etc. it seems it is becoming human nature to oppose everything. anything new or old you can be sure it will be opposed sooner or later.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#245 Jun 6, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You don't get your science from the X-men? I don't think you realize they aren't real. No, you can say they are unbelievable because what we know of biology and physics makes that so. Good god man, do you want to discuss science or meander down the little used back roads of your tortured psyche? Get your head out the comic books and dig into some real science. I know at first you will be daunted by the lack of cartoon characters, word balloons and the increased presence of multisyllabic words, but in 10 or 15 years you may learn something.
X-men! That is freakin hilarious. What you got next for us dumbo? Dr. Seuss characters?
Well, what about these:
- Numbers 23:22: "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn"
- isaiah 14:29: "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent."
- Job 40: "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."
- Isaiah 13:21-22: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and SATYRS shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and DRAGONS in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged."
- Isiah 13:21: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there
- Isaiah 27:1: "In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."
- Numbers 23:22: "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn"
- Revelation 17:3: "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
- Matthew 27:52-53: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (yes....zombies!)
- numbers 21:6: "And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died."
- and then we have golems, giants, men ageing 500 years or older, a man surviving in a fish belly for 3 days, talking snakes and donkeys, nephilims .... one more extravaganza than the other, you name it, the bible mentions.

We live in the 21st century and still have to hear out to this caboodle.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#247 Jun 7, 2014
wondering wrote:
someones opinion is just that "their opinion". it does not mean truth or fact. to censure them for there opinion is as much as a violation of the first amendment(freedom of speech) as atheists see religion in public schools a violation of the first amendment(establishment clause)
in our past homosexuals had to "stay in the closet" for fear of being censured or worse.now they are coming out of the closet and atheists seem to be trying to put the religious people in the closet.
if you do or don't believe in god that is a personal thing. to try force someone to change their self personally, their personal beliefs, or censure them for how they are personally either to accept or reject god is wrong on all accounts. now do i think religion should be pushed on anyone, not at all and i also think no one should be forced not to be able give thanks to god if that is what they believe
there is a difference from not believing in god to despising a god. many atheists will tell their kids there is no god but will entertain the existence of santa clause, easter bunny, tooth fairy etc. knowing the children will figure that all out as they grow up. entertaining the existence of those mythical figures seems "ok" but why would they want to entertain the existence of any mythical figure?
people look for hope in their daily lives in many ways. whether it is god or a lucky charm, they are simply looking for hope.
it doesn't matter if you believe god does exist or does not exist. it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, it doesn't matter if you are smart or dumb. when life leaves the body we will all end up just as dead as the next person. it is all about living life while you are alive and living it the way you feel best living it.
if you believe in god or do not believe in god, i will treat you the same.
if you are heterosexual or homosexual, i will treat you the same.
try to get me to live life like you or when the way you choose to live your life interferes with my life, that is when the problems will arise.
a hopeless world is a cold world. live and let live
What if I am a killer? Will you still treat me as the same? What if I killed per orders but not reasons or is orders a reason to kill? Does that make a difference? You have good points but then again you have no points. You are preaching to a choir that does not care to hear your song. You are looking for/wanting the perfect world which does not exist..

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#248 Jun 7, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
Who knows. You can't really predict eventualities. Why wouldn't a series of mutations grant invisibility or fire breathing ability? If blind chance has made all we see today, it could pretty much do anything as far as we know.
When I accept my award I will thank evolution for making me predisposed to delusions, as well as not giving me the free will required to shed them.
Bu tit is a lie that evolution is based upon "blind chance". Only people who do not understand evolution make that claim. The first time you claimed evolution was based upon "blind chance" I am sure that you were corrected. And you have been corrected many times since then.

So I have one question for you: What religion do you follow? Clearly you are not a Christian or Jew since one of the Ten Commandments is a law against bearing false witness or lying. You have lied quite often on this forum so clearly you are not a follower of God or Yahweh or whatever other name you want to use for him.
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#249 Jun 7, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Bu tit is a lie that evolution is based upon "blind chance". Only people who do not understand evolution make that claim. The first time you claimed evolution was based upon "blind chance" I am sure that you were corrected. And you have been corrected many times since then.
So I have one question for you: What religion do you follow? Clearly you are not a Christian or Jew since one of the Ten Commandments is a law against bearing false witness or lying. You have lied quite often on this forum so clearly you are not a follower of God or Yahweh or whatever other name you want to use for him.
I already told you I was done with you, idiot. You have a comparable reasoning ability to that of a drunken fool. Nearly everything you say is laced with ignorance and misrepresentation.
For the record, and for the I've lost count of how many times, chance is the main engine of evolution. The rest just is what it is. Just because you think something's been "corrected" doesn't mean it required it in the first place.
I do wonder, when have I lied on this forum? I ask out of curiosity, not because I actually care whether I did or not. I do not owe any of you the truth.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#250 Jun 7, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
I already told you I was done with you, idiot. You have a comparable reasoning ability to that of a drunken fool. Nearly everything you say is laced with ignorance and misrepresentation.
For the record, and for the I've lost count of how many times, chance is the main engine of evolution. The rest just is what it is. Just because you think something's been "corrected" doesn't mean it required it in the first place.
I do wonder, when have I lied on this forum? I ask out of curiosity, not because I actually care whether I did or not. I do not owe any of you the truth.
The poor braindead creatard can't debate his point.

And no, you claiming that chance is the "main engine of evolution" does not make it so. Your have been proven wrong experimentally.

And perhaps you have not lied. Perhaps you are as big of an idiot as you seem to be. Seriously those are your only two choices. So liar or idiot? Which one are you?
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#251 Jun 7, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The poor braindead creatard can't debate his point.
And no, you claiming that chance is the "main engine of evolution" does not make it so. Your have been proven wrong experimentally.
And perhaps you have not lied. Perhaps you are as big of an idiot as you seem to be. Seriously those are your only two choices. So liar or idiot? Which one are you?
Debate what point? You're just a freaking moron who wants me to argue against things you say that are completely off the wall stupid. I don't have the patience for your stupidity. You've already proven that you can't even retract misunderstandings properly.

That chance is the main engine of evolution is not something you can dispute, unless you're willing to say that mutations are not random, or that random is not chance.

So, now I haven't lied after all? Which is it? I guess I should have known better than to challenge you to produce some evidence. We both know you're miserable at that, along with being a miserable thing in general. As far as being an idiot is concerned, you certainly are an authority on the matter, so your diagnosis gives me pause.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#252 Jun 7, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
Debate what point? You're just a freaking moron who wants me to argue against things you say that are completely off the wall stupid. I don't have the patience for your stupidity. You've already proven that you can't even retract misunderstandings properly.
That chance is the main engine of evolution is not something you can dispute, unless you're willing to say that mutations are not random, or that random is not chance.
So, now I haven't lied after all? Which is it? I guess I should have known better than to challenge you to produce some evidence. We both know you're miserable at that, along with being a miserable thing in general. As far as being an idiot is concerned, you certainly are an authority on the matter, so your diagnosis gives me pause.
Hoo hoo! ROFLMAO!!

Come on moron, I am sure that I already mentioned the long term E. coli experiment that showed you were wrong. Here let me link it for you again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-ter...

Obviously you did not understand it the first time or you did not read it. Get back to me when you have some questions on it.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#253 Jun 7, 2014
And I guess that isstupid's answer to my question was that he is amazingly braindead. It is a wonder that he can tie his shoes. Perhaps he doesn't. He is the sort that they invented velcro shoes for.
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#254 Jun 7, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Hoo hoo! ROFLMAO!!
Come on moron, I am sure that I already mentioned the long term E. coli experiment that showed you were wrong. Here let me link it for you again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-ter...
Obviously you did not understand it the first time or you did not read it. Get back to me when you have some questions on it.
What is this even pertaining to? Did you forget what it was we were talking about or something? I kind of did. I'm speaking to a moron after all. The contents are bound to be empty. Regardless, I'm quite sure E coli has nothing to do with it.

I do not need to be informed of your laughter, clown. My estimation of you is low enough as it is.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#255 Jun 7, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
What is this even pertaining to? Did you forget what it was we were talking about or something? I kind of did. I'm speaking to a moron after all. The contents are bound to be empty. Regardless, I'm quite sure E coli has nothing to do with it.
I do not need to be informed of your laughter, clown. My estimation of you is low enough as it is.
Amazing, the moron cannot even remember what his claims were.

Okay idiot, just to remind you, you tried to claim that evolution was random. I pointed out that you were wrong and found a reference that supported my claim.

My god it is like debating a 4 year old.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#256 Jun 7, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
Who knows. You can't really predict eventualities. Why wouldn't a series of mutations grant invisibility or fire breathing ability? If blind chance has made all we see today, it could pretty much do anything as far as we know.
When I accept my award I will thank evolution for making me predisposed to delusions, as well as not giving me the free will required to shed them.
Evolution can't defy the laws of physics.

“Help religion science wander”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#257 Jun 7, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, what about these:
- Numbers 23:22: "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn"
- isaiah 14:29: "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent."
- Job 40: "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares."
- Isaiah 13:21-22: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and SATYRS shall dance there. And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and DRAGONS in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged."
- Isiah 13:21: "But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there
- Isaiah 27:1: "In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea."
- Numbers 23:22: "God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn"
- Revelation 17:3: "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."
- Matthew 27:52-53: "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." (yes....zombies!)
- numbers 21:6: "And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died."
- and then we have golems, giants, men ageing 500 years or older, a man surviving in a fish belly for 3 days, talking snakes and donkeys, nephilims .... one more extravaganza than the other, you name it, the bible mentions.
We live in the 21st century and still have to hear out to this caboodle.
Most of your examples are what lead me away from a literal view of the Bible held by the churches I attended while growing up. That and my parents not really taking a literal view either. Much of it is just silly when considered as real. You don't have to believe the Bible is immutably truth or that science is against God in order to believe in God. And those that don't in God or are not sure, I am OK with them too. Their views are their own concern and require neither my support nor disdain. From these threads, I prefer the intelligence, knowledge and view of the proclaimed agnostics and atheists over the lies and hatred of fundamentalist creationists.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#258 Jun 8, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way? Visually? The things you mentioned don't strike me at all as irreducibly complex. The things I mentioned don't just go poof because you say they'd look just as irreducibly complex. They're just not the same degree of functional complexity. This is not even a matter that should be in dispute. It's clear to me that we don't know half as much as we should to make any declaration regarding the efficacy of random mutations as far as large changes are concerned. If we did, you'd have a much better example than a relatively superficial change of body structure.
I'm still waiting for confirmation as to whether we know that the changes occurred by natural mutations or not.
Yawn. The ear assembly is as complex as the heart assembly.

But complexity is not an issue for evolution anyway. The heart is observably both functional and less complex as you go to simpler creatures. Fewer chambers etc. By the time you get to a simple worm, its just a thickening of a blood vessel with some muscle around it that contracts to create flow.

Simple neural nets coordinate the muscular contractions in jelly fish, and its not hard to see how they can become more elaborate and centralised either.

cellular specialisation itself is something we see the first glimmerings of in simple sponges.

Complexity in evolution is always by extension and elaboration...and evolution is a great complexity generator.

So you keep arguing complexity as the basis of your personal incredulity all you like, and scientists will keep ignoring you.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#259 Jun 8, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you mean that no adaptations of incipient flight could be identified because no matter what it won't fly with it, or do you mean that such adaptations can be ruled out a priori?
No, I mean the evolutionary distance between a horse and any descendent of a horse that might ever fly is so vast that much more general changes would be necessary before the horse descendent was even close to something that might one day fly. One example I gave was the need to dramatically reduce size. Another was the reversal of an advanced feeding specialisation which is unlikely.

Now, if a horse shrank to 30cm at the shoulder and changed its diet to fruits and seeds (a more concentrated food source), nobody would say it was now adapted to flying but the evolutionary distance to possible flying descendants would be far shorter.

As I said also, radical new radiations of evolutionary change tend to originate from generalists, not specialists. If you put a population of horses, anteaters, and rats on an continent devoid of all other vertebrates, and came back in 20 million years, it would be far more likely that the rats would have given rise to most of the species you would find there.

So its not impossible, if enough changes for other reasons moved the descendents towards a more "flight ready" profile such as we see in sugar gliders. But its very unlikely that a horse descendent will ever fly, because horses have moved in a very different specialist direction already. Consider the points I have already made and add to that the advanced state of a horse at birth and its weight, the loss of digits (essential in both bats and birds as the foundation for wing structures), and so on.
Could not a horse simply develop all the necessary systems for flight yet be incapable of flight due to its size? We already know of winged creatures incapable of flight.

What we know is that natural selection will act against the wasteful commitment of resources to structures that do not help, and probably hinder, the creature's survival in the meantime. Half a wing WOULD be a burden on a horse unless it had some other useful purpose. That is not the case for mall, light boned, semi arboreal dinosaurs, who had feathers already (probably for display and insulation).

The winged creatures we know incapable of flight such as the ostrich had flighted ancestors. Ostrich wing structure is already too complex for its current uses and we can expect that to decline over time...as it has in some flightless species like the kiwi.

Similarly there are cave rates that are blind but still have useless eyes permanently covered over with skin. We would expect these to further degenerate by 2 processes. Passively, further deleterious mutations to eye construction will not be penalised. Actively, the useless eye still represents a waste of resources so the cave rat with even less "eye" will have a slight economic advantage.
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#260 Jun 8, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Amazing, the moron cannot even remember what his claims were.
Okay idiot, just to remind you, you tried to claim that evolution was random. I pointed out that you were wrong and found a reference that supported my claim.
My god it is like debating a 4 year old.
Evolution IS random. How does your reference support your claim? Because it provides an experimental example of natural selection? Well, no kidding. Who claimed natural selection didn't work? Try to pay attention.
Evolutionisstupi d

Israel

#261 Jun 8, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Evolution can't defy the laws of physics.
Would fire breathing or invisibility defy the laws of physics? Which laws, exactly?

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