Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179706 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#175589 Jun 20, 2014
Ima Bach wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I know there is evidence galore. And, even though I don't understand all the science, I believe it is there just as you say. Why would I not want to believe the evidence you say is there. Scientific research has worked miracles because intelligent men and women have used their intelligence to find answers and improve the way we live (and die).
We cannot "cheat" death as someone put it, but we can relieve suffering and prolong life in many cases. All thanks to intelligent, capable, and willing men and women with a passion for knowledge and a purpose in life.
And, the modern technology that has changed the way we live! Who does not appreciate science and scientists and genius?
OK.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#175590 Jun 20, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, really not getting the whole wanting to read/hear what others have to say vibe here. More like actively avoiding honest discussion.
Thanks for your analysis. What is your profile of me that you have worked up?(you know you have one)
Ima Bach

Knoxville, TN

#175591 Jun 20, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
By "... discern good from evil." I believe you mean "... pass arbitrary moral judgement on other people for no good reason". I think that is why they chop the noses off of young girls in some countries.
Wow! That was a stretch! One can and should be able to discern good and evil without judging another persons motives.
We have all known or known of some really loving, kind, and generous people. I would call those good people whether or not they believe in a Creator.
We have all also known or known of some hateful, unkind, selfish people. I would call those evil people whether or not they believe in a Creator.
We have a right and a responsibility to judge evil actions, and a right and responsibility to appreciate loving kindness exhibited toward us and others. Not because a genuinely kind person needs to be appreciated or expects something in return (that is manipulation and self-serving).
We do not have the right to judge people because we are not perfect ourselves. We should teach our children not to judge people, but to avoid associating with those whose actions do not respect the rights and feelings of others.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#175592 Jun 20, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for your analysis. What is your profile of me that you have worked up?(you know you have one)
$85/hour, just like everyone else.

I could be arguing in my spare time.
Ima Bach

Knoxville, TN

#175593 Jun 20, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have any verifiable evidence any supernatural world exists??
I have evidence there are people with unbridled imaginations to the point of being psychotic. This is also a plausible explanation for this "spiritual world" you claim.
It would not bother me for you to think me psychotic or having an unbridled imagination.
I don't believe myself to be either.
I also don't know why human beings think so differently. Do you have any verifiable evidence that I am wrong in believing that a Supernatural " realm" exists? You cannot see the air you breathe, but science has decoded and named the elements that make up the air we breathe. How do you know that something you can't see exists? Without oxygen, your body will stop functioning and you will die.
Without God (Whom we cannot see), I would feel spiritually dead. I can't explain why, I can only tell you that is how I would have to view myself and my life. I would feel hopeless and empty without Faith.
Faith in God does not make us want to judge others. Faith in God makes us want to love others. I've always believed in God, but I have not always had the love of God living in me.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#175594 Jun 20, 2014
Ima Bach wrote:
<quoted text>
It would not bother me for you to think me psychotic or having an unbridled imagination.
I don't believe myself to be either.
I also don't know why human beings think so differently. Do you have any verifiable evidence that I am wrong in believing that a Supernatural " realm" exists? You cannot see the air you breathe, but science has decoded and named the elements that make up the air we breathe. How do you know that something you can't see exists? Without oxygen, your body will stop functioning and you will die.
Without God (Whom we cannot see), I would feel spiritually dead. I can't explain why, I can only tell you that is how I would have to view myself and my life. I would feel hopeless and empty without Faith.
Faith in God does not make us want to judge others. Faith in God makes us want to love others. I've always believed in God, but I have not always had the love of God living in me.
Air can be measured. Your God and his spiritual realm ... not so much.

The problem with religion of all kinds appears to be a natural human progression;

First you belive there is a God
Then you believe you know this God
Then you know you know what this God thinks
Then you know what this God wants
Then you speak for this God
Then you pass judgements for this God
Then you pass laws for this God
Then you cut off little girl's noses for this God
Then you burn witches for this God.

I think we can do without your God.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#175595 Jun 20, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
$85/hour, just like everyone else.
I could be arguing in my spare time.
Give me your profile you have made for me first. Let see if what I am paying for is worth it.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#175596 Jun 21, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
By "... discern good from evil." I believe you mean "... pass arbitrary moral judgement on other people for no good reason". I think that is why they chop the noses off of young girls in some countries.
WOW!! I have been all over the world. Where is it that they chop off the noses of little girls? Unless you are talking about a few isolated incidents done by the taliban. Hel'l go to Mexico and see how many get their legs and/or arms cut off or beheaded if you want to see some really twisted crap. Oh and guess what, it has nothing to do with God or evolution there.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#175597 Jun 21, 2014
Ima Bach wrote:
<quoted text>
Read post #175548. If that doesn't imply we have no purpose, what is he saying?
He asked you why you assumed there had to be a purpose. Something yo really did not address.
Ima Bach wrote:
Of course people pray who don't truly believe.
Who said that? I didn't.
Ima Bach wrote:
Unless they have reached a point of blaspheming God to the point they can no longer feel the need or desire to pray,
Ah, the old blaspheme routine. Unforgivable sin and all that stuff. I've got news for you, darlin, not praying is not blasphemy. Look it up. You don't get to invent sins.
Ima Bach wrote:
I believe the Bible tells us that God hears those prayers. If we don't get the answer we want, it isn't because we are being ignored, it is because we are not first seeking His Will and not our own.
Yeah, yeah. Convenient, isn't it?
Ima Bach wrote:
'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it us in Heaven."
Know it quite well. Recited it thousands of times in school.
Ima Bach wrote:
I understand how difficult it must be to believe in a God who demanded so much from the people He created. It seems He wanted those to survive who would be the least likely to be or grow up to be evil doers on the Earth. Maybe He wasn't strict enough and ultimately could find only one righteous man among all that had been given free choice to choose between good and evil (God's Will or their own). Thus, the a Biblical account of Noah and the flood.
If there is a Creator as I believe, and if spiritual life does continue after physical death takes place, then we will be capable of making sense of what does not seem to make sense when our mind's ability to understand gets in the way of our spiritual ability to understand.
We won't struggle with doubt or confusion or physical evidence or lack of evidence any more. We will understand the 99.9999% that we can't even imagine in our minds now.
IMHO...it makes perfect sense to me, because it is what I "know" in my spirit to be Truth and what I choose in my mind to believe.
If I have allowed myself to be deceived for whatever reason, my life is better for it because it gives me comfort and peace and answers to questions that cannot be found in science.
Uh-huh. Whatever you say.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#175598 Jun 21, 2014
Ima Bach wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, don't confuse the teachings and the life and example of Christ with the lives example of men.
Once we have asked for spiritual discernment and Godly wisdom( not that we will ever achieve anything close to perfection in this human form), we can begin to recognize what is "of God" and what is false doctrine and manipulation.
Lots of anti-Christs walking among us. I believe our children need to be made aware of that and learn to discern good from evil.
Ken & Co will be quite surprised to hear they are evil. And will likely level the exact same charge at you. Quite a quandary, huh?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#175599 Jun 21, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW!! I have been all over the world. Where is it that they chop off the noses of little girls? Unless you are talking about a few isolated incidents done by the taliban. Hel'l go to Mexico and see how many get their legs and/or arms cut off or beheaded if you want to see some really twisted crap. Oh and guess what, it has nothing to do with God or evolution there.
I'm just responding to the crap dumped. Besides, the basis for rejecting evolution is ... guess what ... Goddunnit!!

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#175600 Jun 21, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting (and typical) that you selectively ascribe love, unselfishness and forgiveness to you creator while ignoring his vindictive nature. You know, booting Adam & Eve out for a little mistake, flooding the planet and killing almost everyone, telling the Hebrews to murder their neighbors, how to treat their slaves, killing the children of Egypt, etc.
Why is that?
I am always reminded of the dichotomy of a loving father that selectively kills those of his children that do follow in his footsteps, when I read this and similar statements. It just doesn't make sense except as a cop out.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#175601 Jun 21, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW!! I have been all over the world. Where is it that they chop off the noses of little girls? Unless you are talking about a few isolated incidents done by the taliban. Hel'l go to Mexico and see how many get their legs and/or arms cut off or beheaded if you want to see some really twisted crap. Oh and guess what, it has nothing to do with God or evolution there.
Dismemberment isn't isolated or just to the Taliban. There are plenty of incidents in history and plenty that are practiced today. Male circumcision, female circumcision, clitorectomies, foot binding, lip rings, neck rings, amputation are all currently practiced somewhere for religious or in some cases economic reasons. An amputee child looks more pitiful and gets more alms. In some places it is carried out as punishment for a crime based on laws derived from religion.

If you are arguing that religion is used to justify torture and dismemberment, I would say that you are wrong based on the evidence. That such occurs for non-religious reasons doesn't change that.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#175602 Jun 21, 2014
I have to learn to proof before I post. That should read: "If you are arguing against the idea that religion is used to justify torture and dismemberment".

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#175603 Jun 21, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Dismemberment isn't isolated or just to the Taliban. There are plenty of incidents in history and plenty that are practiced today.
No one cuts off noses fro culture or religion. It was a few isolated incidents done by the taliban involving a young girl(s) and marriage (I believe she did not want the marriage or tried to leave it). It was done out of pure meanness.
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Male circumcision, female circumcision, clitorectomies, foot binding, lip rings, neck rings, amputation are all currently practiced somewhere for religious or in some cases economic reasons. An amputee child looks more pitiful and gets more alms. In some places it is carried out as punishment for a crime based on laws derived from religion.
If you are arguing that religion is used to justify torture and dismemberment, I would say that you are wrong based on the evidence. That such occurs for non-religious reasons doesn't change that.
circumcision
males for religious beliefs or for personal preferences possibly driven by societal norms

females for a cultural ritual by ethnic groups; an ethnic marker, rooted in gender inequality, ideas about purity, modesty and aesthetics, and attempts to control women's sexuality; It is supported by both women and men in countries that practise it, particularly by the women, who see it as a source of honour and authority, and an essential part of raising a daughter well.

foot binding for a means of displaying status (women from wealthy families who did not need them to work could afford to have their feet bound) and was correspondingly adopted as a symbol of beauty

neck rings for indicator of wealth and status, an ideal of beauty -an elongated neck

lip rings- I think you meant lip plate for a sign of social or economical importance in some tribes

lip rings here in the US for a social statement, to fit in socially with certain groups

All of these can be found on wiki (or elsewhere if you prefer). Not everything is tied to religion as you seem to think.
One way or another

United States

#175604 Jun 21, 2014
Thieving, jealous, stupid men, will do and say anything, in the name of God, to serve their desires.

Children don't have a handle on that.
One way or another

United States

#175605 Jun 21, 2014
Our laws made in Washington, are filled with loopholes, in the name of those that can afford it. Lawyers have corrupted our laws totally. Judges are nothing more than the lawyers.

If you've got the money, you can buy lawyers and judges and even certain people on juries. All it takes is one.

Our entire Congress is fully brided.

It will catch up.
One way or another

United States

#175606 Jun 21, 2014
Those that use and abuse the law and religion, will bring destruction upon all.

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#175607 Jun 21, 2014
One way or another wrote:
If you've got the money, you can buy lawyers and judges and even certain people on juries. All it takes is one.
And if you are a poor man, all you have is 13 1/2.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#175608 Jun 21, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
No one cuts off noses fro culture or religion. It was a few isolated incidents done by the taliban involving a young girl(s) and marriage (I believe she did not want the marriage or tried to leave it). It was done out of pure meanness.
<quoted text>
circumcision
males for religious beliefs or for personal preferences possibly driven by societal norms
females for a cultural ritual by ethnic groups; an ethnic marker, rooted in gender inequality, ideas about purity, modesty and aesthetics, and attempts to control women's sexuality; It is supported by both women and men in countries that practise it, particularly by the women, who see it as a source of honour and authority, and an essential part of raising a daughter well.
foot binding for a means of displaying status (women from wealthy families who did not need them to work could afford to have their feet bound) and was correspondingly adopted as a symbol of beauty
neck rings for indicator of wealth and status, an ideal of beauty -an elongated neck
lip rings- I think you meant lip plate for a sign of social or economical importance in some tribes
lip rings here in the US for a social statement, to fit in socially with certain groups
All of these can be found on wiki (or elsewhere if you prefer). Not everything is tied to religion as you seem to think.
I didn't have to look them up, I was aware of them and some or most have religious reasons behind them whether performed by ethnic groups or not. You can extend this to stoning, shunning, and execution. Some do denote status, but they are performed on women due to the fact that the religion says that it can be done.

I haven't looked to see what the original point of contention actually is but from what I did read, it seems like you are saying that mutilation is not performed for religious reasons and it is. That it is performed for other reasons does not alter that or negate the relationship to religious reasons.

The Eucharist is symbolic cannibalism if you want to split hairs.

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