Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179706 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

One way or another

United States

#174280 May 17, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh poppycock.
Employing life's ancient principles to living in today's world requires new thinking every day.
Do tell and be specific.
One way or another

United States

#174281 May 17, 2014
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh poppycock.
Employing life's ancient principles to living in today's world requires new thinking every day.
Do tell and please be specific.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#174282 May 17, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
I have 42 publications myself.
No one cares what you have published for queer science digest.
Mugwump

Glasgow, UK

#174283 May 17, 2014
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Do tell and please be specific.
Do provide evidence to back up your red-shift being caused by the angles of the galaxies ideas.

And please be specific

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#174284 May 17, 2014
Zog Has-fallen wrote:
<quoted text> No one cares what you have published for queer science digest.
That sounded like a response you would hear from one of your slacker Jr High school students who was jealous of the accomplishments of another, more proficient student.

...a jealous FEMALE student at that.
Seeker

Knoxville, TN

#174285 May 17, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Typo.
Big bang is.... based on pRoof.
At least I got you to admit it is a religion. Now explain the proof in your religion.
I just finished watching a ancient astronaut theorist on the history channel explain why he believes Adam and Eve did exist and were the first intelligent homo sapiens and that they were enticed by a serpent., etc. etc.......it is all in the ancient Samaritan texts found in Nineveh.
Bottom line is we all have our beliefs without positive proof of much as to how humans came to be.
We all have something inside us that tells us what it is we will choose to believe. As long as we don't try to hurt each other with those beliefs, my Bible tells me to (as much as is possible) live at peace with all men.
If we would all do that it would solve our greatest problems on this planet.
Don't you think it is pride in ourselves, our abilities, our intellect, our evidences, our education ultimately our selfish ego that keeps us wanting to show the other how much wiser, smarter, educated, evolved...we are than they are that causes conflict. That along with greed, of course. And greed is a form of pride I think.
Seeker

Knoxville, TN

#174286 May 17, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>What a load of crap. You don't stumble in here by accident like a wee babe. You are here by choice. This place is anonymous and you don't have the courage to own up to being here by choice. You throw the blame on others. Pathetic.
The criteria for being concerned about children is not forcing a fundamentalist version of Christianity on children and keeping them ignorant of the facts.
The First Amendment is about the freedom to express what you think and it was supported and exercised here long before you "stumbled" into these threads.
Good lord man, you are flaunting your opinion here. Does the irony not interfere with your Fundamentalist superpowers?
I agree, religion should continue to be legally kept out of school as mandated by that Constitution that you seem to think only your kind care about.
Science, not being religion, should continue to be taught.
Sure, as long as you are talking science and NOT THE BIG BANG some of you say there is proof of. If there was a Big Bang it must have been when God came on the scene and began to do all the things the Bible tells us He did. We can debate allegory and parables, etc. god knows why it is written as it is. And yes I know there were human mistakes in translations. That is why I am a Believer in Christ and the five fundamentals of the Christian Faith. God tells me as long as I believe Jesus Christ was the God in the flesh, born of a virgin, died on a crooks to shed his BLOOD to cover the sins of men, rose from the dead, and ascended to the Throne of God to make intercession for me if I choose to believe. I can leave all the other questions to Him to reveal to all of us.
I believe that humbling oneself before God, confessing our pride/sins and trying to live as close to how Jesus lived when he was on the earth as we can not only causes us to try to be kind and just and living and charitable, but gives the spirit living inside of us that IS just and kind and charitable and forgiving. We often fail to live up to what we should be, but as long as we deal with evil influences around us, we as human beings will fall short.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#174287 May 17, 2014
If you want an intimate peep into the world of creationism, read this: http://www.oldearth.org/whyileft.htm .

It is the testimony of Glenn Morton, a former YEC adept who worked as a geophysicist for a living. Of course when you work as a geophysicist, you get exposed to the data from seismic investigation because these are important for the determination where we can find oil or natural gas wells.

The story is about what will happen when as a YEC adept ACCIDENTALLY gets involved into observational data.

Of course EVERYONE who involves himself in geological data and observations, INEVITABLY will refute ANY of YEC crap.
But Morton's story is both a REAL revelation and painful and embarrassing.

Some quotes:
"I left seismic processing and went into seismic interpretation where I would have to deal with more geologic data. My horror at what I was seeing only increased. There was a major problem; the data I was seeing at work, was not agreeing with what I had been taught as a Christian. Doubts about what I was writing and teaching began to grow. Unfortunately, my fellow young earth creationists were not willing to listen to the problems."

"My last young-earth paper was entitled Geologic Challenges to a Young-earth, which I presented as the first paper in the First International Conference on Creationism. It was not well received. Young-earth creationists don't like being told they are wrong. The reaction to the pictures, seismic data, the logic disgusted me. They were more interested in what I sounded like than in the data!"

Morton hired several graduates of Christian Heritage College, and that all of them suffered severe crises of faith. They were utterly unprepared to face the geologic facts every petroleum geologist deals with on a daily basis.

NOTE this: "GRADUATES of Christian Heritage College, UTTERLY UNPREPARED to face the geologic facts every petroleum geologist deals with on a daily basis.".
GRADUATES?

"It appeared that the more I questions I raised, the more they questioned my theological purity. When telling one friend of my difficulties with young-earth creationism and geology, he told me that I had obviously been brain-washed by my geology professors."
NOTE this: "BRAINWASHED by GEOLOGY PROFESSORS" and because of "RAISING QUESTIONS". And only because he couldn't explain THE DATA out of a BRONZE AGE MYTHOLOGY.

The ornate designations called upon Morton include such things as "'an apostate,'(Humphreys)'a heretic'(Jim Bell although he later apologised like the gentleman he is)'a compromiser'(Henry Morris) "compromising", "abysmally ignorant", "reckless disregard", "misleading", "tomfoolery", "intentionally deceitful",'like your father, Satan".
NOTE that Morton only presented them DATA to be DISCUSSED.

"But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question:'From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?'
That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said 'No!' A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed,'Wait a minute. There has to be one!' But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him."
NOTE: "NOTHING that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true".

AND THIS CHEATING AND SWINDLING GANG OF DISHONEST DECEIVERS WERE TO BE LET LAYING THEIR HANDS ON OUR OUR SCHOOL CURRICULA?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#174288 May 17, 2014
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
At least I got you to admit it is a religion. Now explain the proof in your religion.
I just finished watching a ancient astronaut theorist on the history channel explain why he believes Adam and Eve did exist and were the first intelligent homo sapiens and that they were enticed by a serpent., etc. etc.......it is all in the ancient Samaritan texts found in Nineveh.
Bottom line is we all have our beliefs without positive proof of much as to how humans came to be.
We all have something inside us that tells us what it is we will choose to believe. As long as we don't try to hurt each other with those beliefs, my Bible tells me to (as much as is possible) live at peace with all men.
If we would all do that it would solve our greatest problems on this planet.
Don't you think it is pride in ourselves, our abilities, our intellect, our evidences, our education ultimately our selfish ego that keeps us wanting to show the other how much wiser, smarter, educated, evolved...we are than they are that causes conflict. That along with greed, of course. And greed is a form of pride I think.
Your tattles are appalling to science.
BEHOLD EVERYONE HERE, what will happen when creationists lay their hands on science.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#174290 May 17, 2014
Evolutionisstupid wrote:
How do these threads get so many pages? My god this place is huge.
Should evolution be taught? Only the parts of it which are demonstrably true. Speculation should not be considered science.
So you mean pretty much all of what is called evolution should be taught since it is demonstrably true that we share an ancestor with other life.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#174291 May 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your tattles are appalling to science.
BEHOLD EVERYONE HERE, what will happen when creationists lay their hands on science.
Yes,sadly to him that ancient astronaut nonsense is as viable as evolution or other ideas since he is unable to process the evidence that supports each idea.

The evidence for ancient astronauts is very contrived. A crazy belief is formed and anything, whether factual or fictional, real data or hoaxes are used to support ancient aliens even though the little bit of real evidence has to be taken out of context for it to work.

The problem is that creationists have extremely poor filters and they have to keep it that way. If they improve their filters to get rid of the nonsense they are no longer creationists. Even Michael Behe wanted to redefine science to such a degree that astrology, not astronomy but astrology, would be considered a science so that they could manage to shoehorn creationism into public schools Lucky for us the conservative judge that seemed like an answer to a prayer for the creationists was an honest conservative judge.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#174292 May 17, 2014
Zog Has-fallen wrote:
<quoted text> No one cares what you have published for queer science digest.
Now that got the reaction I was looking for.

My experiment supports my hypothesis.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#174293 May 17, 2014
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, as long as you are talking science and NOT THE BIG BANG some of you say there is proof of. If there was a Big Bang it must have been when God came on the scene and began to do all the things the Bible tells us He did. We can debate allegory and parables, etc. god knows why it is written as it is. And yes I know there were human mistakes in translations. That is why I am a Believer in Christ and the five fundamentals of the Christian Faith. God tells me as long as I believe Jesus Christ was the God in the flesh, born of a virgin, died on a crooks to shed his BLOOD to cover the sins of men, rose from the dead, and ascended to the Throne of God to make intercession for me if I choose to believe. I can leave all the other questions to Him to reveal to all of us.
I believe that humbling oneself before God, confessing our pride/sins and trying to live as close to how Jesus lived when he was on the earth as we can not only causes us to try to be kind and just and living and charitable, but gives the spirit living inside of us that IS just and kind and charitable and forgiving. We often fail to live up to what we should be, but as long as we deal with evil influences around us, we as human beings will fall short.
The big bang is supported by evidence. It is science and should be taught.

Nice, long winded, avoidance of your previous fabrication about stumbling into this forum and the implication that you are drawn, powerless by the other posters here to blast your opinion all over the place.

If you believe as you say you do, why are you so angry and prideful?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#174294 May 17, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Typo.
Big bang is.... based on pRoof.
Oh my! Could all of religion be based on that typo??

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#174295 May 17, 2014
Seeker wrote:
No Big Bang and no religion should be taught in public schools!
Big Bang is a religion based on Poof,
Wrong again. The big bang was proposed when the red shift was first observed in the 1920s, a phenomenon that could possibly be explained by the recession of galaxies from each other. That was discovered in the 1920s but few took the hypothesis seriously. However, working though the idea, it made some predictions about a remnant background radiation that by now Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation CMBR was discovered by accident...and at that point the hypothesis was taken seriously.

Not religion, not faith, not anything other than a consistent explanation of two independent phenomena observed in nature. One of which the theory predicted. Moving forward with further calculations and predictions, the Big Bang theory continued to align with observation, for such things as the observed levels of the light elements. So it moved from a marginal hypothesis to a well supported theory by this time.

You seem confused between what constitutes religion and what constitutes a scientific theory. There is no religious element to the big bang theory. It simply explains what we observe. It does not, in itself, explain why there was a big bang in the first place, just how it unfolded over time.

Feel free to insert religion BEYOND these observable effects, if you wish. In the meantime, scientists will attempt to peel back the next layer of real explanation, and if they succeed and can somehow test the theory, then you can just keep moving your religious interpretation one step back.
Jacob

Sarasota, FL

#174296 May 17, 2014
Yo evolution is stupid because when you think of it Who made the Earth?Who made the crazy "big bang"?People! Who made the sun,moon,and water! God did! The water on the earth was by God because no other planet has water do you get my point!
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#174297 May 17, 2014
Jacob wrote:
Yo evolution is stupid because when you think of it Who made the Earth?Who made the crazy "big bang"?People! Who made the sun,moon,and water! God did! The water on the earth was by God because no other planet has water do you get my point!
There is water on Mars ( http://wanderingspace.net/2006/12/wallpaper-f... ), on comets, on Saturn moon Enceladus and on Jupiter moon Europa. Europa's surface completely covered with ice. there is water found on the moon, and Mercurius, though in smaller amounts.

Water also has been detected on exoplanets and in great abundances in space.

We don't need bronze age mythologies to explain the earth, life and the universe around us.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#174298 May 17, 2014
Jacob wrote:
Yo evolution is stupid because when you think of it Who made the Earth?Who made the crazy "big bang"?People! Who made the sun,moon,and water! God did! The water on the earth was by God because no other planet has water do you get my point!
AC/DC Rocks!!!

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#174299 May 17, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
That sounded like a response you would hear from one of your slacker Jr High school students who was jealous of the accomplishments of another, more proficient student.
...a jealous FEMALE student at that.
Old Eugene is so predictable. I knew he wouldn't be able to pass up commenting on that post just the way he did.

When you brush off all the dirt, he is just a child screaming for attention and mad at the attention others get.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#174300 May 17, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh my! Could all of religion be based on that typo??
Maybe. The Virgin Birth myth was based upon a mistranslation.

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