Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180369 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#173126 Apr 12, 2014
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong.......
What is wrong? Be a little more vague.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#173127 Apr 12, 2014
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>One doesn't always have to get drawn into some sort of debate to satisfy someone else's accusation as such, therefore a one word reply is warranted.
I did read their argument and gave the response that I thought suited best...
Your one word response hardly scratches the surface. It is indicative of one that can't provide support of their own argument.

I was correct about science and I think I was very correct about you.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#173128 Apr 12, 2014
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>At what point did I say that the Bible proves that GOD exists?
That was not my point. The point was that your subjective, non-verifiable experience is not a valid form of evidence for anyone else. You might think your personal experience has convinced you of the truth of Jesus as the divine "son of God" etc. But there are billions of other people with subjective experiences telling them something very different. Such as, Jesus was just a prophet and Mohammed was a prophet too, the greatest and final prophet. That is what most Muslims think and they will also say that their personal experiences confirm it. For that matter, Shamans see spirits in rocks and thousands of people seem to be sure that they have had alien or ghost encounters. All these conflicting experiences cannot be right.

Science therefore ignores all that and looks in a different direction, basing its understanding on what is observable, testable, repeatable - empirical fact. We build theories and understanding based on those, rather than the often contradictory and illogical "evidence" of personal revelation.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#173129 Apr 13, 2014
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>One doesn't always have to get drawn into some sort of debate to satisfy someone else's accusation as such, therefore a one word reply is warranted.
I did read their argument and gave the response that I thought suited best...
But you didn't give a response, you provided an opinion. It says Evolution Debate right at the top of the page so the reason any of us are here is to partake in a debate. Simply saying you think someone is wrong in a debate forum without explaining why is pretty pointless. The person you replied to made several points about the nature of science and scientists. Which points were wrong? How are they wrong? If you aren't willing to make the barest minimal effort to develop the discussion and move it along it would be better to simply not post at all.
One way or another

United States

#173130 Apr 13, 2014
As to a probe entering the atmosphere of another world, why would you not protect it from any possible collisions with rocks in the orbit of that planet, especially when you have to send the probe into the orbit of that world?

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Level 1

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#173131 Apr 13, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not my point. The point was that your subjective, non-verifiable experience is not a valid form of evidence for anyone else. You might think your personal experience has convinced you of the truth of Jesus as the divine "son of God" etc. But there are billions of other people with subjective experiences telling them something very different. Such as, Jesus was just a prophet and Mohammed was a prophet too, the greatest and final prophet. That is what most Muslims think and they will also say that their personal experiences confirm it. For that matter, Shamans see spirits in rocks and thousands of people seem to be sure that they have had alien or ghost encounters. All these conflicting experiences cannot be right.
Science therefore ignores all that and looks in a different direction, basing its understanding on what is observable, testable, repeatable - empirical fact. We build theories and understanding based on those, rather than the often contradictory and illogical "evidence" of personal revelation.
I not only study science, where I can, which is on-line; and will admit that I had to drop out of Science in High School 'cause I could not pick up a worm, let along dissect it, and heard I would be doing more horrid things, like cutting through animals eyes..... I moved into the Commercial stream and am now Finance Manager where I work. I wrote about DNA being exciting many years ago, and it is recorded in my book. I have also recorded dreams and how they eventuated, in my book, and I was doing this thousands of postings ago in Topix.

I am allergic to the many additives and chemicals there are in foods and beverages, breaking out in massive rashes on my arms and face. I am also a chronic asthmatic, and cannot drink through straws, out of plastic bottles, or have a Dentist work on my teeth with latex gloves. Don't talk to me about how grand Science is; there is a massive let down in their results and how they have affected people, and they are now stuffing up space.

Read about any of those branches of Science, and see how there is no Corporate responsibility and work out there over all percentage of 'perfection'.

GOD told us via Genesis that HE grieves at the evil thoughts and intentions there are in man(kind) and HE would be repeating that statement to you right now if you would only listen.

In those Scriptures, and in my humble opinion, HE was also telling us that HE is not perfect. And that grieves HIM. Looking around you and seeing life forms of all kinds, from lawns to flowers, to birds, to trees, to animals and to humans, what % of perfection do you see?

Where can you apply that sort of rate of perfection? Certainly not man(kind).

If you cannot apply it to man(kind), can you really apply it to moon dust?

Can you really think a result of circumstance created around you a world of near perfection?

In my humble opinion, and after reading much, there are many who have faith in science who have stars in their eyes and are not opened to reality.

I do have proof, written, dated, verified and recorded; even photographs from 35 years ago, because I know that there are many who will only take tangible proof, there faith is so weak.

So, if and when I answer, wrong, it is not because I have no logical response to a posting, it is because I have written it all before and perhaps, right at that moment, have time to write it again....

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Level 1

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#173132 Apr 13, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
But you didn't give a response, you provided an opinion. It says Evolution Debate right at the top of the page so the reason any of us are here is to partake in a debate. Simply saying you think someone is wrong in a debate forum without explaining why is pretty pointless. The person you replied to made several points about the nature of science and scientists. Which points were wrong? How are they wrong? If you aren't willing to make the barest minimal effort to develop the discussion and move it along it would be better to simply not post at all.
I have more or less replied to this posting a couple of postings down.....

If I choose not to respond to a posting other than to say, wrong, then that is of course, my choice. Cheers!!

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#173133 Apr 13, 2014
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>I not only study science, where I can, which is on-line; and will admit that I had to drop out of Science in High School 'cause I could not pick up a worm, let along dissect it, and heard I would be doing more horrid things, like cutting through animals eyes..... I moved into the Commercial stream and am now Finance Manager where I work. I wrote about DNA being exciting many years ago, and it is recorded in my book. I have also recorded dreams and how they eventuated, in my book, and I was doing this thousands of postings ago in Topix.
I am allergic to the many additives and chemicals there are in foods and beverages, breaking out in massive rashes on my arms and face. I am also a chronic asthmatic, and cannot drink through straws, out of plastic bottles, or have a Dentist work on my teeth with latex gloves. Don't talk to me about how grand Science is; there is a massive let down in their results and how they have affected people, and they are now stuffing up space.
Read about any of those branches of Science, and see how there is no Corporate responsibility and work out there over all percentage of 'perfection'.
GOD told us via Genesis that HE grieves at the evil thoughts and intentions there are in man(kind) and HE would be repeating that statement to you right now if you would only listen.
In those Scriptures, and in my humble opinion, HE was also telling us that HE is not perfect. And that grieves HIM. Looking around you and seeing life forms of all kinds, from lawns to flowers, to birds, to trees, to animals and to humans, what % of perfection do you see?
Where can you apply that sort of rate of perfection? Certainly not man(kind).
If you cannot apply it to man(kind), can you really apply it to moon dust?
Can you really think a result of circumstance created around you a world of near perfection?
In my humble opinion, and after reading much, there are many who have faith in science who have stars in their eyes and are not opened to reality.
I do have proof, written, dated, verified and recorded; even photographs from 35 years ago, because I know that there are many who will only take tangible proof, there faith is so weak.
So, if and when I answer, wrong, it is not because I have no logical response to a posting, it is because I have written it all before and perhaps, right at that moment, have time to write it again....
Well, that is a good in depth post but from where I stand, the problems remain.

Firstly, God did not write Genesis. Ancient Jews did. Nothing any poster on these forums or any religious person has told me has convinced me otherwise. And there are a couple of billion other people in the world claiming that the Quran is the perfect word of God too. Then there are the Mormons with their sacred book. What you all have in common is that none of you can prove your claims about any of these books.

As for your discussions about perfection, I do not really see its relevance. Evolution is not about perfection anyway, its about good enough fitness for an environment to survive and reproduce. That does produce optimisation and I see plenty of evidence that animals and plants are well adapted to their environments through the unfortunately brutal business of mutation and natural selection.

Science itself does not offer perfect explanations but the best available. The very progress of science is based on the fact that we build increasingly good explanations for the phenomena we observe, but we can never be sure is an explanation has reached "perfection", only that it works. For the same reason, one should not have "faith" in science, nor faith in anything for that matter. Rational doubt is a far better approach.

You have my sympathy for your health problems and I would suggest sticking to natural, fresh foods (the kind our bodies evolved to consume) and having allergy tests. But your claim that science has achieved little in medicine is simply false.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#173134 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
As to a probe entering the atmosphere of another world, why would you not protect it from any possible collisions with rocks in the orbit of that planet, especially when you have to send the probe into the orbit of that world?

For the same reason you don't protect your house from flying yak crap. Low probability.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#173135 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
You claim that on the strength of your words alone, that you had people committed. Surely one must understand psychology, right?
You keep claiming how many people are mentally ill here, which is everybody who doesn't agree with your cut-and-paste science.
Runaway little boy runaway

I have placed people on a 72 hour hold. Their own behaviors got them committed, not me. That takes a judge.
One way or another

United States

#173136 Apr 13, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
For the same reason you don't protect your house from flying yak crap. Low probability.
Even when we do every single step correctly within any endeavor, we only get one chance to do a job that is right and hopefully acceptable.
One way or another

United States

#173137 Apr 13, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I have placed people on a 72 hour hold. Their own behaviors got them committed, not me. That takes a judge.
They let a massage therapist like you, say such things? That's par for the course, use anyone that cannot understand the fullness of their own thoughts and actions, much less anyone else.

You pretend to be so many things and you pretend that everything you say is right, especially when you do not challenge everything that is written by anyone. You are the one that needs a psychiatrist.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#173138 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Even when we do every single step correctly within any endeavor, we only get one chance to do a job that is right and hopefully acceptable.

In space there are always particles flying around. They are few. They mostly are not in orbit but are remnants of comets and asteroid collisions. Most of them are microscopic in size up to about a grain of very fine sand. All space missions have patch kits for both the ships and the space suits.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#173139 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
They let a massage therapist like you, say such things? That's par for the course, use anyone that cannot understand the fullness of their own thoughts and actions, much less anyone else.
You pretend to be so many things and you pretend that everything you say is right, especially when you do not challenge everything that is written by anyone. You are the one that needs a psychiatrist.

My friends (2 of them psychiatrists) think I am fine. I have another dozen therapist, social worker, and behaviorist friends who also think I am fine.

You are just lashing out because of the problems you have and you don't like being called on them. That is perfectly understandable.

The question is, do you want your life to be better?

Some people really don't. Some people punish themselves for things in the past that they have convicted themselves for.

You swing wildly from anger, indignation to, all too brief, moments of lucidity and openness. Swinging is normal. The magnitude of your swings is not.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Help is out there.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#173140 Apr 13, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
My friends (2 of them psychiatrists) think I am fine. I have another dozen therapist, social worker, and behaviorist friends who also think I am fine.
You are just lashing out because of the problems you have and you don't like being called on them. That is perfectly understandable.
The question is, do you want your life to be better?
Some people really don't. Some people punish themselves for things in the past that they have convicted themselves for.
You swing wildly from anger, indignation to, all too brief, moments of lucidity and openness. Swinging is normal. The magnitude of your swings is not.
Good luck with whatever you decide. Help is out there.
Don't you have to keep a record of all of the mental status findings you make, should they come under review?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#173141 Apr 13, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Don't you have to keep a record of all of the mental status findings you make, should they come under review?

Absolutely. I have to keep all sorts of records. Exams, tests, progress notes, staffing notes, intakes, discharges, and annuals, just to hit the high points. After all that they actually expect me to find time to meet with clients, as if I have time for that.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#173142 Apr 13, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely. I have to keep all sorts of records. Exams, tests, progress notes, staffing notes, intakes, discharges, and annuals, just to hit the high points. After all that they actually expect me to find time to meet with clients, as if I have time for that.
LOL

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#173143 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
They let a massage therapist like you, say such things? That's par for the course, use anyone that cannot understand the fullness of their own thoughts and actions, much less anyone else.
You pretend to be so many things and you pretend that everything you say is right, especially when you do not challenge everything that is written by anyone. You are the one that needs a psychiatrist.
PROOOOOO-JECT-SHUN!!!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#173144 Apr 13, 2014
One way or another wrote:
As to a probe entering the atmosphere of another world, why would you not protect it from any possible collisions with rocks in the orbit of that planet, especially when you have to send the probe into the orbit of that world?
Because the cost of such protection outweighs the probability that such a collision will happen. The probability of such a collision is so very, very small that it can be safely ignored in most cases. Even for probes going through the asteroid belt, the chances of being hit by an asteroid are incredibly small (unless the probe is specifically directed to hit one).
One way or another

United States

#173145 Apr 13, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the cost of such protection outweighs the probability that such a collision will happen. The probability of such a collision is so very, very small that it can be safely ignored in most cases. Even for probes going through the asteroid belt, the chances of being hit by an asteroid are incredibly small (unless the probe is specifically directed to hit one).
Too bad you can't find where science makes that claim.

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