Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 174,462

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161788 Jan 11, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
STOP! Stop right here. What do mutations have to do with organisms being open systems. Organism are OBVIOUSLY OPEN SYSTEMS. Do we intake and lose both matter and energy?
YES.
Ergo we are an open system.
I am not even going to address the rest till you admit this MOST BASIC of facts.
Come on Urb. Be honest to yourself just this once. And organism is an open thermodynamic system. No ifs ands or buts.
But Urb is a closed thermodynamic system...
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161789 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Right from the first sentence the article to me holds no credibility.
"A photo supposedly from a fourth grade science quiz at a religious school in South Carolina has been spreading around the Internet." Looks more like a cheap poke and parody to me. It has no source. Now I am not saying it did or did not happen but without a source it is nothing.
Fair enough.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/sciencetes...

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#161790 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
yes I live in the USA. Do you? If you do then you should see US high school students and teachers are not educated enough to understand evolution. The teachers are confused and all they do is further confuse the students. You don't teach a first year intern heart surgery until he has knowledge, training and experience in what he is learning. US high schools are not advanced enough with the teachers that have the knowledge to teach evolution.
The High School teachers were taught by the qualified instructors in college. That would make them qualified. State and local requirements for teacher certification vary. If you don't like yours, you can try to change it or move.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161791 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Not on medication and evolution biology did not give me my computer or car. Now science gave me those two things but not evolution biology. I am not a religious person and I think science is something man needs to survive and advance.
Yet medicine exists. And you WILL use it at some point even if you have somehow miraculously never ever been on the receiving end of medical treatments at any point in your life. Your computer exists. Your car exists. Medicine certainly makes use of evolutionary biology, and is used in everything from flu shots to cancer research. Your computer is made of plastics that use evolutionary assumptions in geology. Your car runs on oil using evolutionary assumptions in geology. If evolution is wrong then all of science is wrong and your usage of these things is an illusion. Creationists reject ALL fields of science because they think the invisible Jewish wizard did it differently. You don't know any of this because you are quite simply ignorant of all the issues involved. Remember, you have a choice.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161792 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
What does evolution teach where life came from?
It states all life is related via common ancestry.

Or if you are referring to abiogenesis, the theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis.
Fear is not Real wrote:
Does evolution teach that a God is not needed?
No. It doesn't teach anything about any Gods at all.

EXACTLY the same as EVERY OTHER scientific concept. Abiogenesis. Big Bang. Gravity. Germ theory. Plate tectonics. Not one of them make any theological claims at all.

None of them state God DID it. None of them state God DIDN'T do it. PERIOD.
Fear is not Real wrote:
Don't pull a sneak out the back door trick and go around it.
Don't have to. Science is not atheism. You can whine as much as you like but any time you pretend any different, you're wrong.

Remember, you have a choice.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161793 Jan 11, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
How about a flu shot?
Nope don't do it. I take no medications at all.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161794 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
yes I live in the USA. Do you? If you do then you should see US high school students and teachers are not educated enough to understand evolution.
And how would you know exactly? YOU are not educated enough to understand evolution.

Woese probably has a point in that in some cases what passes for evolution is just repetitious tripe that those teachers don't understand. But that doesn't apply to all teachers. If it did, biologists wouldn't exist at all.

As much as you would like to lay the blame for problems of the education system squarely on evolution's shoulders, you can't. Since evolution itself is NOT the problem.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161795 Jan 11, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
The High School teachers were taught by the qualified instructors in college. That would make them qualified. State and local requirements for teacher certification vary. If you don't like yours, you can try to change it or move.
A BA is not qualified to tech something that requires a masters+. The substitute teachers only need an associates.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#161796 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Woese is a very well educated and recognized scientists that contributed as much to evolution biology as any one has. So I sense that since Woese agreed to keep evolution out of high school then he must be wrong by your standards?
Yup!

:-)
Fear is not Real wrote:
Keep in mind Woese probably accomplished more in his life for evolution biology that every single person here on topix!!
More than likely. However it's not like we're debating with him on the validity of biology (as people like yourself, Repro and Cowboy do), but rather the issues of how and why it should be taught.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161797 Jan 11, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Your computer exists. Your car exists.
Do you have any point about the car and computer other than they exists which is something even children know?

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161798 Jan 11, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And how would you know exactly? YOU are not educated enough to understand evolution.
Woese probably has a point in that in some cases what passes for evolution is just repetitious tripe that those teachers don't understand. But that doesn't apply to all teachers. If it did, biologists wouldn't exist at all.
As much as you would like to lay the blame for problems of the education system squarely on evolution's shoulders, you can't. Since evolution itself is NOT the problem.
You have no clue about me but yet are quick to judge.

Woese has a very good point. That man accomplished more in his life than you will ever dream of.

I never said evolution is the problem. I said and will say again the teaching of evolution is the problem. Even a dupe like you should see so.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161799 Jan 11, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup!
:-)
<quoted text>
More than likely. However it's not like we're debating with him on the validity of biology (as people like yourself, Repro and Cowboy do), but rather the issues of how and why it should be taught.
We are debating the article that speaks his thoughts. That is the whole point to this thread. Again see the title and the article it became from.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#161800 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no clue about me but yet are quick to judge.
Woese has a very good point. That man accomplished more in his life than you will ever dream of.
I never said evolution is the problem. I said and will say again the teaching of evolution is the problem. Even a dupe like you should see so.

So why is the teaching of evolution a problem? You want kids to remain ignorant?

“A have offended, Brickie, Dark”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Blue, Suncore, Replay whoever

#161801 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
yes I live in the USA. Do you? If you do then you should see US high school students and teachers are not educated enough to understand evolution. The teachers are confused and all they do is further confuse the students. You don't teach a first year intern heart surgery until he has knowledge, training and experience in what he is learning. US high schools are not advanced enough with the teachers that have the knowledge to teach evolution.
I see your argument has evolved.

Yes, I live in the US. As I said, I and many of my fellow students were taught and understood biology in a US school. The teacher was not confused and he did not confuse the students. I believe that we need better trained teachers, but we also need a playing field free of superstition and ignorance.

“A have offended, Brickie, Dark”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Blue, Suncore, Replay whoever

#161802 Jan 11, 2014
River Tam wrote:
It isn't an exact quote, but I got it from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

“A have offended, Brickie, Dark”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Blue, Suncore, Replay whoever

#161803 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope don't do it. I take no medications at all.
What do you do when you are ill?

“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#161804 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
A BA is not qualified to tech something that requires a masters+. The substitute teachers only need an associates.
Sure it is. The teacher doesn't decide the curriculum. There are federal, state and local guidelines. Unqualified teachers are a political problem. Deal with it.

“A have offended, Brickie, Dark”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Blue, Suncore, Replay whoever

#161805 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no clue about me but yet are quick to judge.
Woese has a very good point. That man accomplished more in his life than you will ever dream of.
I never said evolution is the problem. I said and will say again the teaching of evolution is the problem. Even a dupe like you should see so.
How do you know how much others have accomplished when you don't know who they are?

Do his accomplishments make his opinion correct?

Ted Bundy and Charles Manson accomplished a lot and their work had immediate and direct affect as well as a larger more widely experienced affect. Albert Einstein came up with the theory of relativity. Should we blindly accept the opinions on childhood education from any of these men based on their accomplishments?

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161806 Jan 11, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
So why is the teaching of evolution a problem? You want kids to remain ignorant?
Read the article.

No one is saying teaching evolution is a problem. The problem lies in where they want to teach young students who won't understand it because they are being taught by teachers that don't understand it.

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. and was an American microbiologist and biophysicist. Woese is famous for defining the Archaea (a new domain or kingdom of life) in 1977 by phylogenetic taxonomy of 16S ribosomal RNA, a technique pioneered by Woese which revolutionized the discipline of microbiology.He was also the originator of the RNA world hypothesis in 1977.

He said "My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

And goes on to say that evolution is not something that should be taught in high school by unqualified people. It should be taught in college by qualified people because when students are taught by unqualified people at lowers levels of education this impacts their ability to correctly absorb new information about evolutionary biology when they are taught by a qualified person in college.

How in the world can you not agree with that?

“A have offended, Brickie, Dark”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Blue, Suncore, Replay whoever

#161807 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
We are debating the article that speaks his thoughts. That is the whole point to this thread. Again see the title and the article it became from.
Would you prefer we teach evolution alongside the neither believe nor disbelieve theory of maybe/maybe not creation?

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