Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,162

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“The strength of science is”

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founded in facts.

#161802 Jan 11, 2014
River Tam wrote:
It isn't an exact quote, but I got it from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

“The strength of science is”

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founded in facts.

#161803 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope don't do it. I take no medications at all.
What do you do when you are ill?

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#161804 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
A BA is not qualified to tech something that requires a masters+. The substitute teachers only need an associates.
Sure it is. The teacher doesn't decide the curriculum. There are federal, state and local guidelines. Unqualified teachers are a political problem. Deal with it.

“The strength of science is”

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Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#161805 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no clue about me but yet are quick to judge.
Woese has a very good point. That man accomplished more in his life than you will ever dream of.
I never said evolution is the problem. I said and will say again the teaching of evolution is the problem. Even a dupe like you should see so.
How do you know how much others have accomplished when you don't know who they are?

Do his accomplishments make his opinion correct?

Ted Bundy and Charles Manson accomplished a lot and their work had immediate and direct affect as well as a larger more widely experienced affect. Albert Einstein came up with the theory of relativity. Should we blindly accept the opinions on childhood education from any of these men based on their accomplishments?

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161806 Jan 11, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
So why is the teaching of evolution a problem? You want kids to remain ignorant?
Read the article.

No one is saying teaching evolution is a problem. The problem lies in where they want to teach young students who won't understand it because they are being taught by teachers that don't understand it.

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. and was an American microbiologist and biophysicist. Woese is famous for defining the Archaea (a new domain or kingdom of life) in 1977 by phylogenetic taxonomy of 16S ribosomal RNA, a technique pioneered by Woese which revolutionized the discipline of microbiology.He was also the originator of the RNA world hypothesis in 1977.

He said "My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

And goes on to say that evolution is not something that should be taught in high school by unqualified people. It should be taught in college by qualified people because when students are taught by unqualified people at lowers levels of education this impacts their ability to correctly absorb new information about evolutionary biology when they are taught by a qualified person in college.

How in the world can you not agree with that?

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#161807 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
We are debating the article that speaks his thoughts. That is the whole point to this thread. Again see the title and the article it became from.
Would you prefer we teach evolution alongside the neither believe nor disbelieve theory of maybe/maybe not creation?

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161808 Jan 11, 2014
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it is. The teacher doesn't decide the curriculum. There are federal, state and local guidelines. Unqualified teachers are a political problem. Deal with it.
A teacher cannot teach the classes in the curriculum if they do not understand the classes in the curriculum their self. What part of that confuses you. I will be more than happy to explain that to you.

So now you say unqualified teachers are a political problem. That is a joke!!! They are an educational problem just like the children. Unqualified teachers are the problem with the children. But if you feel educated and feel right to blame it on politics that is your choice.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161809 Jan 11, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Would you prefer we teach evolution alongside the neither believe nor disbelieve theory of maybe/maybe not creation?
I stand by this. High schools students are not ready for learning evolution and high school teachers are not qualified to teach evolution. So I repeat:

Read the article.

No one is saying teaching evolution is a problem. The problem lies in where they want to teach young students who won't understand it because they are being taught by teachers that don't understand it.

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. and was an American microbiologist and biophysicist. Woese is famous for defining the Archaea (a new domain or kingdom of life) in 1977 by phylogenetic taxonomy of 16S ribosomal RNA, a technique pioneered by Woese which revolutionized the discipline of microbiology.He was also the originator of the RNA world hypothesis in 1977.

He said "My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

And goes on to say that evolution is not something that should be taught in high school by unqualified people. It should be taught in college by qualified people because when students are taught by unqualified people at lowers levels of education this impacts their ability to correctly absorb new information about evolutionary biology when they are taught by a qualified person in college.

How in the world can you not agree with that?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#161810 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the article.
No one is saying teaching evolution is a problem. The problem lies in where they want to teach young students who won't understand it because they are being taught by teachers that don't understand it.
Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. and was an American microbiologist and biophysicist. Woese is famous for defining the Archaea (a new domain or kingdom of life) in 1977 by phylogenetic taxonomy of 16S ribosomal RNA, a technique pioneered by Woese which revolutionized the discipline of microbiology.He was also the originator of the RNA world hypothesis in 1977.
He said "My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."
And goes on to say that evolution is not something that should be taught in high school by unqualified people. It should be taught in college by qualified people because when students are taught by unqualified people at lowers levels of education this impacts their ability to correctly absorb new information about evolutionary biology when they are taught by a qualified person in college.
How in the world can you not agree with that?
I'm not really sure about that, of course if they are being taught incorrect concepts , it would be a problem. But you have to learn to walk before you learn to run, and starting early is getting a head start. There should be little reason of hindrance to teaching basic concepts of evolution in high school.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161811 Jan 11, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>How do you know how much others have accomplished when you don't know who they are?
Do his accomplishments make his opinion correct?
Ted Bundy and Charles Manson accomplished a lot and their work had immediate and direct affect as well as a larger more widely experienced affect. Albert Einstein came up with the theory of relativity. Should we blindly accept the opinions on childhood education from any of these men based on their accomplishments?
This is a funny post. Woese accomplished more in his life FOR evolution than you will ever dream of. But since you don't agree with his very educated opinion you act like he is just a nobody. Do some reading on the man and you will easily see what this man accomplished for evolutionary biology is just as much if not more than any ever have.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161812 Jan 11, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not really sure about that, of course if they are being taught incorrect concepts , it would be a problem. But you have to learn to walk before you learn to run, and starting early is getting a head start. There should be little reason of hindrance to teaching basic concepts of evolution in high school.
Woese is one of the biggest supporters and a great accomplished scientists in evolution. You all want to knock him, your just kicking you self in the butt. Woese was a great man to have on the evolutionary biology team. If you can't stand behind him then it just shows that you are biased to your own opinions when you disagree with a man 100times more qualified than you gives his thoughts and reasons, valid reasons for his thoughts. It is quite funny to see that you all can't even agree with one of evolutions brightest scientists of his time.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#161813 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Woese is a very well educated and recognized scientists that contributed as much to evolution biology as any one has. So I sense that since Woese agreed to keep evolution out of high school then he must be wrong by your standards?
Keep in mind Woese probably accomplished more in his life for evolution biology that every single person here on topix!!
So you admire Woese, eh?

" In a 1998 interview with Science Spectra, for example, he (Woese) observed, "Biology is poorly taught in general at the high school level ... Scientifically, the matter is simple. The essence of biology is evolution, and biology should be taught from an evolutionary perspective. Yet, although evolution is covered to some extent in high school biology courses, it bears the scarlet letter and is taught in a guarded fashion, embalmed in caveats. The reason for this is obvious, as are the pressures on textbook publishers." Woese was a member of NCSE."

http://ncse.com/news/2012/12/carl-r-woese-die...

Woese is arguing for BETTER teaching of evolution public High Schools.
And little old you suggest removing the subject altogether?

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161814 Jan 11, 2014
I was actually hoping to come in here and see a few good debates, have a few good debates, learn a little and leave a little but I see now this is nothing more than a pissing contest and what matters is how many piss the most. You will even piss on your own. I will leave you all to piss all about and stay standing in the same piss puddle for until you learn to quit pissing on your feet, your feet will always be wet.

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161815 Jan 11, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So you admire Woese, eh?
" In a 1998 interview with Science Spectra, for example, he (Woese) observed, "Biology is poorly taught in general at the high school level ... Scientifically, the matter is simple. The essence of biology is evolution, and biology should be taught from an evolutionary perspective. Yet, although evolution is covered to some extent in high school biology courses, it bears the scarlet letter and is taught in a guarded fashion, embalmed in caveats. The reason for this is obvious, as are the pressures on textbook publishers." Woese was a member of NCSE."
http://ncse.com/news/2012/12/carl-r-woese-die...
Woese is arguing for BETTER teaching of evolution public High Schools.
And little old you suggest removing the subject altogether?
Exactly and until it got better he felt it should not be taught in high schools because it dumbed students down from the taught nonsense by uneducated people when the got into the college level courses. As I said now several times, READ THE ARTICLE IN THE THREAD!!!

“Fear is One's Weakness”

Since: Jan 14

Weakness is Anothers Strength

#161816 Jan 11, 2014
if not for Woese evolution biology would not have the PhylogeneticTree of Life. But yeah his opinion and thoughts are just meaningless. Keep pissing on your own feet. Good day gents.

PhylogeneticTree of Life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phylogeneti...

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#161817 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
I was actually hoping to come in here and see a few good debates, have a few good debates, learn a little and leave a little but I see now this is nothing more than a pissing contest and what matters is how many piss the most. You will even piss on your own. I will leave you all to piss all about and stay standing in the same piss puddle for until you learn to quit pissing on your feet, your feet will always be wet.
From the very start you came in with a chip against science. You have argued against teaching evolution in high school. You have made claims that go against the facts. You talk about how bad atheists are compared fundamentalists while posting on a thread started by a deranged fundie who has made some of the most vicious comments about anybody he considers and atheist.

With that intro, what did you expect?

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#161818 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly and until it got better he felt it should not be taught in high schools because it dumbed students down from the taught nonsense by uneducated people when the got into the college level courses. As I said now several times, READ THE ARTICLE IN THE THREAD!!!
The solution then would be to raise the standards of teaching required for those classes and get qualified applicants to teach those classes. Your argument isn't to get evolution out of the classroom, it is to get better teaching in.

I believe those are your feet.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#161822 Jan 11, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>The solution then would be to raise the standards of teaching required for those classes and get qualified applicants to teach those classes. Your argument isn't to get evolution out of the classroom, it is to get better teaching in.
I believe those are your feet.
Sounds to me like he is saying the teachers need to go back to school.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#161823 Jan 11, 2014
Woese was a member of The National Center for Science Education (NCSE).

The entire PURPOSE of the NCSE is to improve the teaching of science -- INCLUDING THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION -- in public schools.

Like has been said here before: Woese was expressing his dissatisfaction with the current state of the TEACHING of evolution. He was NOT trying to remove it altogether.

Dry your feet.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#161824 Jan 11, 2014
Fear is not Real wrote:
<quoted text>
A teacher cannot teach the classes in the curriculum if they do not understand the classes in the curriculum their self. What part of that confuses you. I will be more than happy to explain that to you.
So now you say unqualified teachers are a political problem. That is a joke!!! They are an educational problem just like the children. Unqualified teachers are the problem with the children. But if you feel educated and feel right to blame it on politics that is your choice.
You're the one that said only qualified people are able to teach ToE and those people are teaching in college. Where do you think High School teachers come from?

Would you like for me to explain it to you?

You can't fire unqualified teachers because of unions. That's a political problem. I don't have kids. It's not my problem.

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