Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180369 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#157534 Nov 5, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Complete freedom is answering to no one. You(we) have to get permission to drive, work, marry etc etc in the form of a license.
We are never free. Freedom is mentally and physically. Freedom of the mind is imagination and even though imagination can take you any where, in reality you are not there.
Something you fundies should remember when you think you've made a coherent argument.

:-)

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157535 Nov 5, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The question is how deep you have to go to get to the sameness - something we have underestimated. People in different places are indoctrinated very differently from day one, and perhaps we don't know how deeply rooted those differences become. We cannot slap a bit of democracy on an Egyptian and believe that deep down he wants it. 6000 years of history tells us something...Morsi immediately became the strongman he replaced and Morsi's replacement will do the same. And so on. We ask when will they grow up...arrogantly assuming "grow up" means becoming democratic like us. And when the downtrodden around these parts say they want democracy, my more cynical side looks at it and says, no, they just wish they were the strongman instead of the bugger that is there now.
Another funny point about your time in Germany. Everyone else thinks Germans are arrogant. The French are arrogant. The English are arrogant. Russians are arrogant. Arabs here are arrogant. Chinese are arrogant. Japanese too.
How can this be?
Perhaps we are all arrogant in different ways about different things. We call it pride too.
Of course, nobody is as proud of not being proud as a born again Christian.
haha.

LOL. Yes. And pride is a supposed sin....


Sameness in the first level below cognition. When we stop discursive thought we are the same.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157537 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
About the same. I have house damage from the storm that hit us on Halloween. My son is starting Special Olympics basketball. Nothing special.
If the kid can make a basket that IS special. Unless he's 6'9". Then he's just being a smartass. ;)

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157538 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is interesting. From a dictionary definition of freedom you are certainly closer than I am. But I accept that there is a spiritual (for lack of a better term) state or quality where one is free regardless of their physical circumstances.
Something is rotten in Denmark when an ape has greater freedom from oppression than a human child. If an ape has the right to participate in the struggle of life (from conception onward) then so should a human.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157539 Nov 7, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Any mind is free to be as deluded as it wishes.
Then why do you spend so much time here begrudging so many posters their freedom to do just that?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#157540 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Something is rotten in Denmark when an ape has greater freedom from oppression than a human child. If an ape has the right to participate in the struggle of life (from conception onward) then so should a human.
Fat chance for those apes, rhinos, tigers etc who don't run the risk of being aborted before birth, but have had their numbers catastrophically decimated and face extinction as one particular mammal crowds out most others. Slowing the exponential growth of this mammal? Not if you can help it!

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157541 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>If the kid can make a basket that IS special. Unless he's 6'9". Then he's just being a smartass. ;)

Closer to 4'9" and he can make baskets. He just can't dribble.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157542 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Closer to 4'9" and he can make baskets. He just can't dribble.
No man is a born athlete. Sports aren't that much different than the arts, just about anybody can be good at it with enough practice.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157543 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
...
Not all surrender is giving up.
I think it kind of is. Giving up, giving in, whatever.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157544 Nov 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Theoretical discussions of freedom should be shelved while more pragmatic issues of threats to individual freedoms in the USA and elsewhere in the West are addressed..."freedom is in the mind" may have some truth to it but its also a fatalistic recipe for accepting enslavement.
As for the rest of the world...they can do what they like, whatever floats their boat. Last bastion of western arrogance - the assumption that our values are universal or should be. As first western military attacks and then the Arab spring decay into chaos and more extreme Islam, we should not pretend the differences between cultures are superficial. "Everyone is the same" makes a great pop song but thats as far as it goes.
Puhleeze! "Western arrogance" my ass! When was the last time you ever heard of a foreign woman visiting America being sent to prison for being raped?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/20/world/meast/uae...

One of your buddies here tried to convince me that Dubai was run by a reasonable, friendly guy but all I'm seeing is a country whose ruler turns a blind eye to local prostitution as long as no "man" makes a complaint. Let a woman protest a sex crime and the shyt hits the fan. Their culture is no less arrogant than ours is, the difference is that they feel no shame in what they do.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#157545 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I would never advocate leaving people in bondage because they can be free in their minds. "Deep inside were all the same" is a truth which should awaken us to the human rights and dignity of others. I feel that discussions of what freedom is CAN be important or moot depending upon what effect they have on us. Dry philosophy has little impact upon the masses but in dealing with individuals it may be helpful. Another pop song cliche that I think can be valuable is that we don't know what is right for other people.
American's are arrogant. When I was in Germany I got told that I was not like most Americans. I did not have any idea of how to take that at the time, but now I realize it was a compliment.
I'm sure a good deal of the arrogance that any Americans feel regarding foreigners is their resentment of so much bad attitude coming the smug, aloof bastards considering they all have their hand out begging for American taxpayers' dollars. They all want freebies off us but don't want to show the humility that "should" come with being moochers. Unfortunately, the old axiom, "Familiarity breeds contempt.", rings true regarding freeloaders.

Obama's "redistribution of wealth", IOWS, Americans carrying the load for the world, has gone too far. I say, "Cut 'em loose!", and watch the sneers turn to dismay. >:)

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#157546 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Something is rotten in Denmark when an ape has greater freedom from oppression than a human child. If an ape has the right to participate in the struggle of life (from conception onward) then so should a human.
Way off topic, so let me guess - Todd Akin fan, right?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#157547 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Puhleeze! "Western arrogance" my ass! When was the last time you ever heard of a foreign woman visiting America being sent to prison for being raped?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/20/world/meast/uae...
One of your buddies here tried to convince me that Dubai was run by a reasonable, friendly guy but all I'm seeing is a country whose ruler turns a blind eye to local prostitution as long as no "man" makes a complaint. Let a woman protest a sex crime and the shyt hits the fan. Their culture is no less arrogant than ours is, the difference is that they feel no shame in what they do.
The difference is that the most vocal of "Christians" are the ones who would be the most vocal of "Muslims", were they just brought up in a different part of the world. Wait - did I say difference? I meant tragedy/irony/stupidity/gross arrogance/hypocrisy/....

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157548 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I think it kind of is. Giving up, giving in, whatever.

Humm..... While I see your point, I regard giving up and giving in as externally very similar but psychologically very different.

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157549 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Puhleeze! "Western arrogance" my ass! When was the last time you ever heard of a foreign woman visiting America being sent to prison for being raped?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/20/world/meast/uae...
One of your buddies here tried to convince me that Dubai was run by a reasonable, friendly guy but all I'm seeing is a country whose ruler turns a blind eye to local prostitution as long as no "man" makes a complaint. Let a woman protest a sex crime and the shyt hits the fan. Their culture is no less arrogant than ours is, the difference is that they feel no shame in what they do.

While a horrific example, this is still a cultural issue. One does not change another culture by fighting directly against it so much as infiltrating it with new ideas.

You might want to read an article on motivational interviewing (M.I.). What may need to be done is something similar on the sociological/societal level. Of course that presumes that "we" know what is right and have the right to change others. Still the M.I. approach is to find what people want to change and build on that. It is NOT done by telling a client to stop drinking and why (as an example) but rather by getting the client to tell the counselor why they (the client) need to stop drinking.

People don't say what they believe, they believe what they say.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#157550 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Puhleeze! "Western arrogance" my ass! When was the last time you ever heard of a foreign woman visiting America being sent to prison for being raped?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/20/world/meast/uae...
One of your buddies here tried to convince me that Dubai was run by a reasonable, friendly guy but all I'm seeing is a country whose ruler turns a blind eye to local prostitution as long as no "man" makes a complaint. Let a woman protest a sex crime and the shyt hits the fan. Their culture is no less arrogant than ours is, the difference is that they feel no shame in what they do.
I think your point is pretty much what Chimney was also saying.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#157551 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Humm..... While I see your point, I regard giving up and giving in as externally very similar but psychologically very different.
Sometimes giving up/giving in is the only logical route. You "give up" your beliefs in Santa and the Easter Bunny. You "give up" ignorance in favor of education. You "give up" the idea that the latest and greatest product is either the latest or the greatest.
If one cannot change their mind on a position, if they cannot "give in" to new information or consider that the merits of another POV is in some way superior, they are a slave to their position. Acceptance of change is not surrender, it is rejection of outmoded thinking.
As W.C. Fields put it, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damned fool about it."

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157552 Nov 7, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sure a good deal of the arrogance that any Americans feel regarding foreigners is their resentment of so much bad attitude coming the smug, aloof bastards considering they all have their hand out begging for American taxpayers' dollars. They all want freebies off us but don't want to show the humility that "should" come with being moochers. Unfortunately, the old axiom, "Familiarity breeds contempt.", rings true regarding freeloaders.
Obama's "redistribution of wealth", IOWS, Americans carrying the load for the world, has gone too far. I say, "Cut 'em loose!", and watch the sneers turn to dismay. >:)

Most of the aid the U.S. gives out is for humanitarian reasons and/or has strings attached. By giving money the U.S. GAINs affluence and influence, or at least that is part of the idea.

The axiom is "Familiarity breeds liking". Generally the better we know someone the more we like them. Generally being the key word. I have some friends that have diametrically opposed views to mine, but we know and respect each other so it is not a problem.

There is a fundamental problem in how we see money, power vs. how we see people in need. If we focus on money we become more selfish (according to a number of studies). That is the basic Republican vs. Democrat battle in a nutshell. That IS oversimplified, but basically true, methinks.

Working in the occupation I do that makes life interesting since I am helping people, FOR A PRICE. I DO want to help people as much as I can and as many as I can, but I also want to make more money. It is sort of a double bind.

But I tried the making money routine (Was a stockbroker for almost 8 years) and I will never go back to that.

So, what do you value?

“May you be at peace.”

Since: Nov 07

Mars

#157553 Nov 7, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes giving up/giving in is the only logical route. You "give up" your beliefs in Santa and the Easter Bunny. You "give up" ignorance in favor of education. You "give up" the idea that the latest and greatest product is either the latest or the greatest.
If one cannot change their mind on a position, if they cannot "give in" to new information or consider that the merits of another POV is in some way superior, they are a slave to their position. Acceptance of change is not surrender, it is rejection of outmoded thinking.
As W.C. Fields put it, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damned fool about it."

Change always means giving up something for something else.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#157554 Nov 7, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Change always means giving up something for something else.
Sometimes it means discarding something for something else - it's all in how you perceive it, but it nearly always involves overcoming a fear.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 20 min Eagle 12 - 83,049
News Why Atheist Richard Dawkins Supports Religious ... 1 hr Eagle 12 - 2,549
Post your Bible Science Verses that show Evolut... 3 hr THE LONE WORKER 50
The worst enemies of Creationism are "religioni... 14 hr Science 19
Evolution is a racist doctrine 17 hr Science 51
Golden Section in our DNA again proves DESIGN Thu Science 15
Science News (Sep '13) Thu Ricky F 4,008
More from around the web