Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180300 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#156730 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think they much like the Chinese either.
Come to think of it, it sure seems the Muslims don't like anybody.
They seem to fight them all everywhere. But the Chinese and Hindu only have border clashes. The Muslims have fought everybody everywhere. At least America has left those Indians alone. lol
There is the land of Law and Peace and the lands of Darkness and War.

Three guesses as to how that works - whose Law and whose Peace.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#156731 Oct 14, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the matter with that?
It is typical fundamental Christian behavior. You keep forgetting that the "born again" are automatically forgiven for their sins. So they can judge without being judged, by their "logic".

The Conquistadors must have been born again a bunch.
I know let's go lop some heathens heads off, we can meet back at the mission for confession?
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156732 Oct 14, 2013
Here is the simplest presentation on statistical entropy that I could find.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156734 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The Conquistadors must have been born again a bunch.
I know let's go lop some heathens heads off, we can meet back at the mission for confession?
No moron, the ones that got their heads lopped off was the born again. How do you manage to get everything wrong?
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156735 Oct 14, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I take your point but we are talking about a specific example of building versus bombing a house. And the energy equation of erecting a wall is of the form I stated.
UC's argument is not really about open vs closed systems. Its based on a paper that makes some very silly claims outside of all of that. A "new" creationist Second Law based attack. And just as silly as the old creationist 2nd Law attacks.
Interesting that you see science as an "attack".
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156737 Oct 14, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Go ahead and count available microstates. That will give you the number of available microstates. Great! But it will NOT give the ENTROPY until the number of available microstates is translated into a measure of energy / temperature.
ENTROPY IS "ln(W)* 1.4*10^(-23) Joules per Kelvin". It is not just(W) or even ln(W).
Just as, to repeat again, "40 miles" are not "40 miles per hour", Have you grasped this yet? Actual physical quantities matter in physics.
Did you not read the Wiki article on statistical entropy? Did you not see the video from Khan Academy? Did you not see the presentation by UC Davis? My God Chimney, you are as dense as a stump. Hint: You don't need Boltzmann's constant! It is just there to convert the answer to SI units.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#156738 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No moron, the ones that got their heads lopped off was the born again. How do you manage to get everything wrong?
Gosh trolly you're right ,it was headless Spanish Conquistadors who decimated the Indians with guns germs and steel.

And Columbus was a swell guy, today is his day!
We remember him the hero, who used tyranny and atrocity the first serial murderer of the new world!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Colu...

They were saved! Those Indians were!
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156739 Oct 14, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I read about that recently while looking into all this.
However, lets remember the context. Creager says correctly that cooling reduces entropy - normally, and in the world Bolzmann was familiar with, because he is using Boltzmann.
He then inexplicably concludes from the above that applying order increases order. I want him, or UC, to explain how the premise leads to the conclusion.
Note I have asked Urb several times and he has not ever answered that, just parroted that it does, that its correct, etc etc. You have done the same. Its a fuzz, a gloss over, and its how Creager pulls off the whole con trick.
As UC is so clearly getting confused over the simplest things, its clear he does not even understand the pre-Boltzmann version of TD and yet is running off into complexities to try and rescue Creager. Really, have you read that paper yet, that UC was copying verbatim (though not attributing to Creager - I did a search to discover that).
Total BS. I gave the link to his article the first day. I referenced it dozens of times. I presented it. You idiots "found it" because I presented it. You are completely unreliable and untrustworthy at this point.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156740 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Gosh trolly you're right ,it was headless Spanish Conquistadors who decimated the Indians with guns germs and steel.
And Columbus was a swell guy, today is his day!
We remember him the hero, who used tyranny and atrocity the first serial murderer of the new world!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Colu...
They were saved! Those Indians were!
Interesting how you got from the Spanish Inquisition to American Indians. Is there no bounds to an evotards equivocations?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#156741 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting how you got from the Spanish Inquisition to American Indians. Is there no bounds to an evotards equivocations?
Historical facts of christian murderers. It wasn't Christ doing it but it was men in his name doing it.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#156742 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting how you got from the Spanish Inquisition to American Indians. Is there no bounds to an evotards equivocations?
Not "Spanish Inquisition". He said "Spanish Conquistidors".

Two different things, UC.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#156744 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Historical facts of christian murderers. It wasn't Christ doing it but it was men in his name doing it.
Historical fiction, with an axe to grinbd, according to you, who hates Christians.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#156745 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical fiction, with an axe to grinbd, according to you, who hates Christians.
No one here hates Christians. Many of us hate what hypocritical Christians do.

Do you understand the difference?

Probably not. Poor sap.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#156747 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not read the Wiki article on statistical entropy? Did you not see the video from Khan Academy? Did you not see the presentation by UC Davis? My God Chimney, you are as dense as a stump. Hint: You don't need Boltzmann's constant! It is just there to convert the answer to SI units.
The scalar part of k converts it specifically to a constant that reconciles to SI units. But if we used other units, the scalar would change but not the need for units of energy and temperature.

And you seem strangely one eyed when you can claim Wiki as a source when it says the following clearly:

"The quantity k is a physical constant known as Boltzmann's constant, which, like the entropy, has units of heat capacity."

And:

"This S is almost universally called simply the entropy. It can also be called the statistical entropy or the thermodynamic entropy without changing the meaning."

And the Khan Academy lecture exactly describes why Boltzmann's approach is exactly equivalent to Clausius but has the added benefit of explaining why it works....and still uses (and must use) physical units. By our convention, Joules / Kelvin.

The scales do not matter. 40 miles per hour, 17.8 metres per second, same thing in different units. But still distance / time.

Likewise energy / temperature are the physical dimension of k, and none of your claptrap can get around the fact that Creager couldn't even get that right and Ss = Se is a mockery.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#156748 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Total BS. I gave the link to his article the first day. I referenced it dozens of times. I presented it. You idiots "found it" because I presented it. You are completely unreliable and untrustworthy at this point.
Wrong. I found it by copying your unattributed text into google, then you accepted it. But it makes no difference. Creager is wrong, and you have merely embarrassed yourself by parroting him.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#156749 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Here is the simplest presentation on statistical entropy that I could find.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =X2YwBmeHzccXX
Did you notice Boltzmann's constant there? And how he was talking about the *change* in entropy?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#156750 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting that you see science as an "attack".
What you do is not science.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#156751 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you not read the Wiki article on statistical entropy? Did you not see the video from Khan Academy? Did you not see the presentation by UC Davis? My God Chimney, you are as dense as a stump. Hint: You don't need Boltzmann's constant! It is just there to convert the answer to SI units.
Yes, it is there to convert to SI units. But no matter *which* units are used, entropy has units of energy/temperature. And the statistical entropy gives *exactly* the same results as the thermodynamic entropy dS=dQ/T. That is part of the whole point of what Boltzmann did.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#156752 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Total BS. I gave the link to his article the first day. I referenced it dozens of times. I presented it. You idiots "found it" because I presented it. You are completely unreliable and untrustworthy at this point.
And BTW links to the above quotes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_ (statistical_thermodynamics)

"The quantity k_B is a physical constant known as Boltzmann's constant, which, like the entropy, has units of heat capacity. The logarithm is dimensionless."

"This S is almost universally called simply the entropy. It can also be called the statistical entropy or the thermodynamic entropy without changing the meaning."

But I have given you all that before, days ago in fact...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#156753 Oct 14, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical fiction, with an axe to grinbd, according to you, who hates Christians.
Right!
And there was no Holocaust
And we didn't go to the moon.

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