Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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#156597
Oct 13, 2013
 
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes! Good and evil exist in the "hearts" soul/spirit of men. At least you understand that there is a place in the human consciousness that exists apart from the intellect/brain.
Our body of flesh that will someday die and return to dust is controlled by the brain. When the brain dies the body no longer functions in a conscious state. Modern science can keep a brain dead body alive by keeping oxygen pumped into the bloodstream, but at that point the body is no more than the machine that pumps air into the lungs. The physical heart is a part of that machine as well. It is dead without the brain.
The "heart" where good and evil dwell is the soul/spirit. If the connection between the mind/ brain and the spirit/"heart" is the soul, then the soul/ spirit lives on in another realm/ dimension once the mind/ brain is dead.
Angels and demons are a part of the spirit realm and can only be understood in the connection that occurs between our spirit and God's Holy Spirit. If you do not choose to make that connection, you are spiritually blind to the things that only make sense when God's Holy Spirit reveals it to us in our spirit.
Your brain may be chocked full of scientific knowledge. You are understandably confident in and proud of what YOU have accomplished. Until you realize YOU can do nothing without the God who created you helping you, sustaining you, supporting you, you are spiritually dead/ blind/ ignorant.
Whats to say the part of a mind you call heart/soul, to distinguish it from the dry intellect, is not just another part of the brain? Also the endocrine system etc....but still basically of the same material as everything else?

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#156598
Oct 13, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly Chimney. It is amazing what man has worshiped over the many thousands of years. From sticks and stones, to fire and ice, to Suns and Gods. One thing that was worshiped would be replaced by something that was new or saw for the first time(a new discovery). There have been more Gods/worship idols than we can count but even though the idols or Gods have changed the same concept of it all falls in the same lines. It falls into what people get a fixation on, what they canít explain, the stories told and passed down and by what people want to believe. Letís take fire for an example. I would guess when it was first discovered man or early man thought it was a God a gift from a God. Which goes back to whatever new came along to someone it was probably a God or worshiped.
All of which makes it pretty hard to take any one particular religious belief system seriously don't you think?
Believer

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#156599
Oct 13, 2013
 
I've been told I am not supposed to "preach" on this forum. I've been told that if I want to talk about the things of the spirit that I should do that on a religious forum, not on this "science" forum.

I have not been called by God to preach, nor I'm I qualified!

As a Christian, I believe I have an obligation to stand up to those who would disrespect the Holy Spirit of God.

Thank God I am also an American and do still have the right under the law to do so as well.(As do atheists and people of any other faith that respects the human rights we enjoy in America.)

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#156600
Oct 13, 2013
 
Believer wrote:
I've been told I am not supposed to "preach" on this forum. I've been told that if I want to talk about the things of the spirit that I should do that on a religious forum, not on this "science" forum.
I have not been called by God to preach, nor I'm I qualified!
As a Christian, I believe I have an obligation to stand up to those who would disrespect the Holy Spirit of God.
Thank God I am also an American and do still have the right under the law to do so as well.(As do atheists and people of any other faith that respects the human rights we enjoy in America.)
Fair enough. However given the topic of this thread, it is expected that you somehow link your obligation to share your faith into the question at hand.

Does your faith compel you, like so many others, to demand that either evolution is not taught or that science teaching be corrupted by the pseudoscientific crap that so often emanates from others who share your faith?

Your faith is fine with me. Wrecking science is not.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#156601
Oct 13, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
Ok brainiacs and science scholars. Here is your next simple question.
White/bluish light flashes occur many times right before a large earthquake and last for several seconds. Why is that?
Piezoelectric effects possibly? Why?

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#156602
Oct 13, 2013
 
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the first time I've heard of the 5% rule. But I think the reality is that every religion has its fringe groups, and Muslims as a whole are a very large group so of course they will have many dangerous fringe groups. It's not like they have some genetic imperative that's different from the rest of humanity. The Hindus in India have been slaughtering Muslims for centuries and the Christians in Europe ruled with with an iron fist for over a thousand years. In any nation where religion is above the rule of law there will be hardship for anyone in the minority. That is the human imperative, not the Muslim or Hindu or Christian imperative.
"Hindus in India have been slaughtering Muslims for centuries?" If I ma not mistaken, it was the Muslims who invaded India,butchered Hindus and destroyed many of their temples.

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#156603
Oct 13, 2013
 
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>

There is a Holy Spirit (God) and there is an evil spirit (Satan). If you don't believe in or understand the spiritual/supernatural, it is because you do not have a spiritual understanding that only comes through seeking to know God.
Any poof?

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#156604
Oct 13, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree with you in that the moral requirements for a workable society are pretty much that same at any time and place human nature is what it is. Honesty, fidelity, property, etc have always been valued at least by members of the same community, and the temptation to transgress on these points has always been there too. Similar rules, different gods.
Religious people are afraid that with no gods, the fabric unravels. And that is the guts of their objection to modern biology, geology, physics, cosmology, and chemistry. They pretend they are fighting the prevailing views on a scientific basis but as UC's last travesty of pseudoscience just showed, nothing could be further from the truth. They lie about the sciencebecause they are afraid of the consequences.
You mean what YOUR last travesty of pseudoscience just showed that YOUR philosophical attempt to rebut entropy and applied energy is at the philosophical level consisting of only unprofitable, wrangling words, while the essence of your argument was discussed without understanding. There were so many major weaknesses in your arguments such as illegal substitution of terms, mixing applications of principle, inventing causes and effects where none exists, etc. Of course, yours was much less sophisticated than that, such that, any physics major would easily spot your errors.

This is similar to what evolutionists (Theobald, 2007) did regarding his rebuttal of irreducible complexity. He used a philosophical basis that had major weaknesses. He did not use science or logic. The way he employed the Mulerian Two-Step (M2S) as a rebuttal to Behe's hypothesis was flawed just as yours is seriously flawed.

I have shown you so many examples of sound, scientific, and judicious ways that evolution could not possibly have happened that amounts to a legal proof, that evolution never happened, couldn't have happened; so that now you are simply without excuse.

I've got your number now Chimney, and I'm going to call you on it every. time.

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#156605
Oct 13, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
All of which makes it pretty hard to take any one particular religious belief system seriously don't you think?
Who is more religious than YOU?

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#156606
Oct 13, 2013
 
Believer wrote:
I've been told I am not supposed to "preach" on this forum. I've been told that if I want to talk about the things of the spirit that I should do that on a religious forum, not on this "science" forum.
I have not been called by God to preach, nor I'm I qualified!
As a Christian, I believe I have an obligation to stand up to those who would disrespect the Holy Spirit of God.
Thank God I am also an American and do still have the right under the law to do so as well.(As do atheists and people of any other faith that respects the human rights we enjoy in America.)
Noah's Flood never happened.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#156607
Oct 13, 2013
 
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean what YOUR last travesty of pseudoscience just showed that YOUR philosophical attempt to rebut entropy and applied energy is at the philosophical level consisting of only unprofitable, wrangling words, while the essence of your argument was discussed without understanding. There were so many major weaknesses in your arguments such as illegal substitution of terms, mixing applications of principle, inventing causes and effects where none exists, etc. Of course, yours was much less sophisticated than that, such that, any physics major would easily spot your errors.
This is similar to what evolutionists (Theobald, 2007) did regarding his rebuttal of irreducible complexity. He used a philosophical basis that had major weaknesses. He did not use science or logic. The way he employed the Mulerian Two-Step (M2S) as a rebuttal to Behe's hypothesis was flawed just as yours is seriously flawed.
I have shown you so many examples of sound, scientific, and judicious ways that evolution could not possibly have happened that amounts to a legal proof, that evolution never happened, couldn't have happened; so that now you are simply without excuse.
I've got your number now Chimney, and I'm going to call you on it every. time.
Yeah you know science is a Bolshevik plot.

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#156608
Oct 13, 2013
 
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>

This is similar to what evolutionists (Theobald, 2007) did regarding his rebuttal of irreducible complexity. He used a philosophical basis that had major weaknesses. He did not use science or logic. The way he employed the Mulerian Two-Step (M2S) as a rebuttal to Behe's hypothesis was flawed just as yours is seriously flawed.
No, Behe's claims of irreducible complexity have been debunked by scientists that have shown what the thought was irreducibly complex, wasn't.

In the Dover trial he was embarrassed beyond redemption by his claims that there was no peer reviewed research on how the blood clot cascade evolved. They built a "fort" of books and journals around him on the stand that explained how this aspect of life evolved. Another favorite of his has been debunked by countless scientists that have shown how the rotator flagellum of bacteria evolved. When he fist made the claim it was not well known how it evolved. Now we know very well how it evolved.

No one except for complete creatards take Behe seriously anymore. He is a joke in the scientific community. He sold his credibility for a false religion.

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#156609
Oct 13, 2013
 
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean what YOUR last travesty of pseudoscience just showed that YOUR philosophical attempt to rebut entropy and applied energy is at the philosophical level consisting of only unprofitable, wrangling words, while the essence of your argument was discussed without understanding. There were so many major weaknesses in your arguments such as illegal substitution of terms, mixing applications of principle, inventing causes and effects where none exists, etc. Of course, yours was much less sophisticated than that, such that, any physics major would easily spot your errors.
I just went through Khan Academy's excellent tutorial on "Reconciling Thermodynamics and State Definitions of Entropy" for the second time.

I suggest you watch it again if you have not done so already, and quit with your idiotic nonsense. Try listening to what he says this time - all of it.

And you are the one illegally substituting terms.

- You are the one who cannot reconcile the simplest real world examples with how TD actually works and how "application of ordered energy" does not.

- you are the one who thought, as per Creager, that cooling something reduces entropy (correct)- therefore (guffaw) the application of ordered energy reduces entropy.(!!) It does not follow, and only a stranger to the simplest logic could believe that it does.

Funnily enough, it was a Physics PhD major who not only confirmed what I said but took it a lot further and you STILL don't get even the basics. You are so dogmatic that you insist HE is the one getting it wrong. Because you are actually not listening to anything we say. Just parroting Creager, usually word for word.

You still do not have a clue about energy flow and transfer.

Here is another SIMPLE example for you. A stirling heat engine - a real life useful object - takes the most random energy input imaginable, pure heat, and can transform a portion of it into ordered non-random kinetic energy (so long as it has a heat sink as well). This pathetically simple example alone shows that Creager is clueless.

I don't blame you for wanting to change the subject, after you scored a solid F in the Second Law.

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#156610
Oct 13, 2013
 
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Uhm no. I was saying you got nothing. Christianity is just a name labeled on peoples actions and beliefs. Before the word Christianity one can safely bet there was another word for it.
You are saying that a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Dogen is saying that a rose by any other name still has thorns.

The root of the rose is not about what Christians are called in English or were called in Aramaic, but in human nature.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#156611
Oct 13, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
They were pretty wild 15,000 years ago, just think ..no modern science, no primitive science...no science at all.
They had stone tipped spears and a herd to chase down.
Laws what are laws? The law is unga bunga is bigger than you.
The brightest one of the bunch counted to ten once.
Family values, it's all trying to eat you first.
Pretty much like the most advanced people were probably the paleo Indian tribes and the hunter gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe.
Cannibalism is rampart, and ritual sacrifice is normal.
We thought the hood was rough, but wolves and other predators most likely feasted regularly on humans then. Life expectancy 25-30 years.
And cold... very cold winters, smack in the ice age cold.
It would be difficult to envision Christianity existing under another name at the time.

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#156613
Oct 13, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It would be difficult to envision Christianity existing under another name at the time.
Even now, there are Christians who cannot envision other denominations as Christian. <shrug> Depending on the region, the first christians could have been worshipers of Helios, Serapis or Mithra, a couple hundred years BCE. It's well known that they have always had an unabashed penchant for borrowing from pagans, why not their name, as well? Paul was accused of being a leader of the Natsarim, and early "Christian" communities were called catholic (with a meaning akin to "universal" and not to be confused with Catholic.) Anyway, christos is a title, not a name and it isn't derived from Hebrew, but from the Greek Chi and Rho.

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#156615
Oct 13, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Even now, there are Christians who cannot envision other denominations as Christian. <shrug> Depending on the region, the first christians could have been worshipers of Helios, Serapis or Mithra, a couple hundred years BCE. It's well known that they have always had an unabashed penchant for borrowing from pagans, why not their name, as well? Paul was accused of being a leader of the Natsarim, and early "Christian" communities were called catholic (with a meaning akin to "universal" and not to be confused with Catholic.) Anyway, christos is a title, not a name and it isn't derived from Hebrew, but from the Greek Chi and Rho.
Interesting stuff you post here. Of course the timeline that was thrown out was 15,000 years ago. About 10,000 years before the first known written languages. While the basis for what would eventually become many of the modern religions most likely existed, I don't know of any evidence that indicates a Christian-like religion under another name at that time.

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#156617
Oct 13, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
They were pretty wild 15,000 years ago, just think ..no modern science, no primitive science...no science at all.
They had stone tipped spears and a herd to chase down.
Laws what are laws? The law is unga bunga is bigger than you.
The brightest one of the bunch counted to ten once.
Family values, it's all trying to eat you first.
Pretty much like the most advanced people were probably the paleo Indian tribes and the hunter gatherers that built Gobekli Tepe.
Cannibalism is rampart, and ritual sacrifice is normal.
We thought the hood was rough, but wolves and other predators most likely feasted regularly on humans then. Life expectancy 25-30 years.
And cold... very cold winters, smack in the ice age cold.
I've been reading a few very interesting novels by Collin Cotterill. His stories are set in Laos shortly after the communists took over. Many of his favorite characters are Hmong tribesmen, sort of like equivalent to Native American tribes. The Hmong are rich in spirit beliefs. They have religious traditions and taboos to govern all aspects of their life. Their shamans are powerful leaders who advise and enforce the civil and religious traditions. I think this kind of social organization would be standard for most early tribal societies.

“I have upset the hand of god”

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#156619
Oct 13, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just went through Khan Academy's excellent tutorial on "Reconciling Thermodynamics and State Definitions of Entropy" for the second time.
I suggest you watch it again if you have not done so already, and quit with your idiotic nonsense. Try listening to what he says this time - all of it.
And you are the one illegally substituting terms.
- You are the one who cannot reconcile the simplest real world examples with how TD actually works and how "application of ordered energy" does not.
- you are the one who thought, as per Creager, that cooling something reduces entropy (correct)- therefore (guffaw) the application of ordered energy reduces entropy.(!!) It does not follow, and only a stranger to the simplest logic could believe that it does.
Funnily enough, it was a Physics PhD major who not only confirmed what I said but took it a lot further and you STILL don't get even the basics. You are so dogmatic that you insist HE is the one getting it wrong. Because you are actually not listening to anything we say. Just parroting Creager, usually word for word.
You still do not have a clue about energy flow and transfer.
Here is another SIMPLE example for you. A stirling heat engine - a real life useful object - takes the most random energy input imaginable, pure heat, and can transform a portion of it into ordered non-random kinetic energy (so long as it has a heat sink as well). This pathetically simple example alone shows that Creager is clueless.
I don't blame you for wanting to change the subject, after you scored a solid F in the Second Law.
Is that on Academic Earth? I was not familiar with the Stirling engine. Very fascinating and apparently something that is being reexamined in the modern context.

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#156620
Oct 13, 2013
 
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting stuff you post here. Of course the timeline that was thrown out was 15,000 years ago. About 10,000 years before the first known written languages. While the basis for what would eventually become many of the modern religions most likely existed, I don't know of any evidence that indicates a Christian-like religion under another name at that time.
I wasn't speaking of Puma Punku, Blombos or Gobekli Tepe.
Across the entire globe, across the entirety of the distribution of humans, there was/are bound to be parallels between one religion and dozens of others. Christianity doppelganger? We will never know, as when one religion can't devour another, it will surely make every effort to obliterate it.

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