Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179697 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#149067 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, it's ridiculous that you use ape to man for your count. Give me a break. You have to go from molecules to man. And for your information, YES WE DO! And it comes from both secular and creation science. Well documented. I can demonstrate that the observed mutation rate falls far short in developing pretty much even the slightest change between species much less ape to man, or microbes to man! We've even discussed some of the literature together. You're really on a losing streak Chimney.
I use ape to man because that is already something you dispute and its sufficient to demonstrate that "counting the changes" is an absurd approach. You cannot even say what number of genetic changes made the significant difference between man and ape so any claim that there "cannot have been enough" is clearly poor thinking or should I say lying.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149068 Aug 27, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
A mutation can occur any time, not just during meiosis. Female eggs sit in the body from birth and can accumulate mutations any time.
Male sperm cells are continually being made and are 4 times more likely to develop mutations spontaneously than a female ovums (egg cells) which are set at birth.

http://www.nature.com/news/fathers-bequeath-m...

So let me rephrase:

This means everything happens either during meiosis, lifetime of the gametes, or at fertilization.

It also means macroevolution or transmutation of species or whatever you want to call it, depends 100% ENTIRELY on mutations that occur during either of those processes, right?

So again, just for clarity, barring mutations, offspring will remain the same species regardless of ancestry or time, agreed?
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149069 Aug 27, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
But that is not the main point. You are still stumbling on the most basic aspect of gradualism. OF COURSE an offspring will be the same species as its parents. Of course a french kid will speak french. But in every generation tiny changes accumulate that add up. Which is why a french speaker today cannot understand latin or italian. Now, think of latin as common ancestor and think of the french as human and the italians as chimps. Or vice versa for any italians present.
Speciation is the result of entire gene pools moving in different directions following breeding isolation. There is no macro event that makes the son a different species from his father. There are 1000 micro events that cumulatively make the son a different species from his great grandfather x10000.
ALL BS!

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#149070 Aug 27, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I use ape to man because that is already something you dispute and its sufficient to demonstrate that "counting the changes" is an absurd approach. You cannot even say what number of genetic changes made the significant difference between man and ape so any claim that there "cannot have been enough" is clearly poor thinking or should I say lying.
To the creationist "mind", transitions are non-existent. They go from void to universe in one page and from dirt to man in a single passage, so they insist that the ToE must also include abiogenesis, the BBT and the kitchen sink. After all, the difference between all life being created 6,000 years ago and life evolving over 2 billion years is just a trivial little matter of time. Minutiae, when compared to the infinite wisdom of sheep herders.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#149071 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>ALL BS!
Concise, well thought-out rebuttal.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149072 Aug 27, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Concise, well thought-out rebuttal.
I call it as I see it. And it was Chimneys typical yarn-spinning BS.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149073 Aug 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
To the creationist "mind", transitions are non-existent.
In reality, transitions are non-existent.
One way or another

United States

#149077 Aug 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
To the creationist "mind", transitions are non-existent. They go from void to universe in one page and from dirt to man in a single passage, so they insist that the ToE must also include abiogenesis, the BBT and the kitchen sink. After all, the difference between all life being created 6,000 years ago and life evolving over 2 billion years is just a trivial little matter of time. Minutiae, when compared to the infinite wisdom of sheep herders.
So show us in the fossil record, the very small changes, from one form to the next, it should be very simple, if your claim is true.
Anon

Aalst, Belgium

#149078 Aug 27, 2013
- There is a lot of evidence
- Evolution isn't just about Darwin
- The word "Theory" has an other definition in science; it defines the acceptance of a bunch of hypothesis which are confirmed with an overload of evidence
- The only reason (religion) people don't want evolution in school is because there juvenile would turn there back to religion

Religion only hold us back and promote wars.
Maybe we should think about banning religion from schools instead of accepting evolution in school.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#149079 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
In reality, transitions are non-existent.
In reality, nothing is in stasis.
One way or another

United States

#149080 Aug 27, 2013
Anon wrote:
- There is a lot of evidence
- Evolution isn't just about Darwin
- The word "Theory" has an other definition in science; it defines the acceptance of a bunch of hypothesis which are confirmed with an overload of evidence
- The only reason (religion) people don't want evolution in school is because there juvenile would turn there back to religion
Religion only hold us back and promote wars.
Maybe we should think about banning religion from schools instead of accepting evolution in school.
Greed and stupidity create wars and those people are in everything, not just religion. Why don't you know that?

Was genghis Khan religious?
And do show one hypothesis, that has an overload of evidence.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#149081 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
You have a lot nerve suggesting I study biology when you don't have a clue what I'm talking about half the time. Lazy, stupid evotards!
You're correct to the extent that I find many of your posts absolutely bewildering. It's possible that others can't understand what you're talking about because you don't.
One way or another

United States

#149082 Aug 27, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
You're correct to the extent that I find many of your posts absolutely bewildering. It's possible that others can't understand what you're talking about because you don't.
You're either a liar or you're just stupid. I understand what he says. Its ok if you're stupid, but you shouldn't keep proving it.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#149083 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
I call it as I see it.
...through thick, distorted God-goggles
Urban Cowboy wrote:
And it was Chimneys typical yarn-spinning BS.
Seemed like a perfect analogy.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149084 Aug 27, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
...through thick, distorted God-goggles
<quoted text>
Seemed like a perfect analogy.
Enough of your evotarded God complex.

Analogies are for telling stories. I want facts.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149085 Aug 27, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
You're correct to the extent that I find many of your posts absolutely bewildering. It's possible that others can't understand what you're talking about because you don't.
OH BS. You can't join the discussion because you have no idea what is going on. It childlike to sit back and whine but it takes a big boy to say something intelligent with substance. You haven't done that ever. You're just another ideological stupid, lazy evotard.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#149086 Aug 27, 2013
One way or another wrote:
You're either a liar or you're just stupid. I understand what he says. Its ok if you're stupid, but you shouldn't keep proving it.
I'm sure that you perfectly represent Urb's target audience.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149087 Aug 27, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
In reality, nothing is in stasis.
Even when fossils that are "millions of years old" looks identical to the living one? Those weren't in stasis either, uh?

<head shake/eye roll combo>

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#149088 Aug 27, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Enough of your evotarded God complex.
You've made it quite clear that your God beliefs are foundational to your interpretations of evidence.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Analogies are for telling stories. I want facts.
Analogies are useful for helping to explain interpretations of facts. You seem unable to grasp Gradualism with respect to the development of Species diversity, so an analogy using diversification of languages was provided; which was also impossible for you to grasp.

I'm afraid that if things are simplified to the point where you can understand them, they will have lost their meaning completely.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#149089 Aug 27, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure that you perfectly represent Urb's target audience.
I'm pretty sure you're a complete moron.

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