Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180392 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

urb

Greenville, SC

#148122 Aug 18, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting point and yes you are right...
"One gene can encode more than one protein (even up to 1,000). The human genome contains about 21,000 protein-encoding genes, but the total number of proteins in huwman cells is estimated to be between 250,000 to one million."
According to:
http://proteomics.cancer.gov/whatisproteomics
Still, your I do not see your conclusion following from the facts.
You still assume that either complexity is impossible for evolution to generate, or that the complexity we see is irreducible, or that this kind of complexity must lead to a sort of rigidity.
Now demonstrate why any of these things must be true.
I can even make an opposite point. You guys argue some absurdly high figure for the number of mutations that would be required to turn a chimp into a man or a "cow into a whale". Yet if one mutation can affect multiple proteins, that is another reason why this argument would be turned on its head. One mutation might have multiple effects throughout the system.
All speculation of course, but that is what we are doing here, speculating from the facts.
Enjoy your holiday.
Thanks.

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#148123 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
But Hitler was a Christian, just like you.
Why do you keep saying Hitler was a Christian? He may have been a Christian at one time or played off he was a Christian but before and during his power he was no Christian at all.

According to Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church to his political associates, but remained a formal member of the Catholic church until his death, and even ordered his chief associates to remain members; while having "no real attachment to it.

Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, wrote "Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament.

the most coherent reading of Mein Kampf is that whilst Hitler was prepared to believe in an initial creator God, he did not accept the conventional Christian vision of heaven and hell, nor the survival of an individual "soul"... we are animals and just like animals we face the choice of destroying or being destroyed

Hitler spoke of the myths of religion crumbling before scientific advances; The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.

According to Max Domarus, Hitler had fully discarded belief in the Judeo-Christian conception of God by 1937, but continued to use the word "God" in speeches - but it was not the God "who has been worshiped for millennia"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s...

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#148124 Aug 18, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep saying Hitler was a Christian? He may have been a Christian at one time or played off he was a Christian but before and during his power he was no Christian at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s...
A couple of points:

Your own link (above) has Hitler's religious views changing throughout his life.

"Various scholars consider Hitler's final religious position to be one of deism. Some have used the terminology that he did not "believe in God", others that he was "atheist". The question is debated. During his career, and for a variety of reasons, he made various comments against atheistic movements."

So to say he was Christian or Atheist might never be known for certain.

Hitler was a madman. Nobody doubts that.

And whether or not Hitler was Christian or Atheist has nothing to do with the validity of the Theory of Evolution.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#148125 Aug 18, 2013
One way or another wrote:
Gosh, I didn't know that stars had old film. Lmao
Its just so difficult to believe that there can be people that are really this stupid.
You have convinced us that there are.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#148126 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
But Hitler was a Christian, just like you.
No he wasn't, far from it. He controlled the pope and he claimed to be catholic...big difference in being a catholic and being a Christian.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#148127 Aug 18, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
If you want to see where Darwin's evolution and science have taken us, down the wrong road of survival of the fittest or race hygiene, just watch this documentary.
"Homo Sapiens 1900"
Darwin contributed to hitler's idea of killing off all the Jews he could find. Pure satanic ideas.
Hitler & Co's murder of the Jews had nothing to do with Darwin, dummy.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#148128 Aug 18, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
No he wasn't, far from it. He controlled the pope and he claimed to be catholic...big difference in being a catholic and being a Christian.
Here we go again with the arrogant Christian prick deciding who is and who is not a Christian.

Judge not, jackass.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#148129 Aug 18, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep saying Hitler was a Christian? He may have been a Christian at one time or played off he was a Christian but before and during his power he was no Christian at all.
According to Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church to his political associates, but remained a formal member of the Catholic church until his death, and even ordered his chief associates to remain members; while having "no real attachment to it.
Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, wrote "Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament.
the most coherent reading of Mein Kampf is that whilst Hitler was prepared to believe in an initial creator God, he did not accept the conventional Christian vision of heaven and hell, nor the survival of an individual "soul"... we are animals and just like animals we face the choice of destroying or being destroyed
Hitler spoke of the myths of religion crumbling before scientific advances; The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.
According to Max Domarus, Hitler had fully discarded belief in the Judeo-Christian conception of God by 1937, but continued to use the word "God" in speeches - but it was not the God "who has been worshiped for millennia"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s...
That article was a bit self contradictory. It says both that Hitler was very private and yet claims that certain people supposedly knew his mind.

All I can go by are his own statements:

"“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”

From this site:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23...

There are quite a few quotes that indicate his actions had a Christian motivation.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#148130 Aug 18, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
No he wasn't, far from it. He controlled the pope and he claimed to be catholic...big difference in being a catholic and being a Christian.
What evidence do you have that supports this claim? I have his own quotes that I just linked. He looks and sounds like a Christian to me. There is no reason for an atheist to hate Jews in Germany over all other peoples. For many German Christians the existence of Jews was anathema. Hating Jews was a pastime of their starting with at the very least Martin Luther, and probably earlier.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#148131 Aug 18, 2013
urb wrote:
<quoted text>
Pure evotard nonsense.

You can't defend your nonsense because you don't really understand it.

If you understood it you would not have said it in the first place.

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#148132 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That article was a bit self contradictory. It says both that Hitler was very private and yet claims that certain people supposedly knew his mind.
All I can go by are his own statements:
"“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
From this site:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/08/23...
There are quite a few quotes that indicate his actions had a Christian motivation.
From the same site;
"Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another… while the
enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.”

Evidently in this quote he thought of Catholics and Christians differently.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#148133 Aug 18, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you keep saying Hitler was a Christian? He may have been a Christian at one time or played off he was a Christian but before and during his power he was no Christian at all.
According to Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church to his political associates, but remained a formal member of the Catholic church until his death, and even ordered his chief associates to remain members; while having "no real attachment to it.
Hitler's chief architect, Albert Speer, wrote "Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament.
the most coherent reading of Mein Kampf is that whilst Hitler was prepared to believe in an initial creator God, he did not accept the conventional Christian vision of heaven and hell, nor the survival of an individual "soul"... we are animals and just like animals we face the choice of destroying or being destroyed
Hitler spoke of the myths of religion crumbling before scientific advances; The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic. When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.
According to Max Domarus, Hitler had fully discarded belief in the Judeo-Christian conception of God by 1937, but continued to use the word "God" in speeches - but it was not the God "who has been worshiped for millennia"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s...

This pieces has a number of interesting points in it, but leaves so much out to try to make their view work. Hitler was very religious early in his career and his ideas have a firm religious basis. He was NOT fond of the Catholic church but envisioned a new German church (after all the Germans were the master race) to replace the Catholic. He did not share the mystical/occult ideas of many of his 3rd Reich peers and made derogatory comments about them in private. Later in life he seems to have been more of nominal Christian and may have bordered on deism.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#148134 Aug 18, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
A couple of points:
Your own link (above) has Hitler's religious views changing throughout his life.
"Various scholars consider Hitler's final religious position to be one of deism. Some have used the terminology that he did not "believe in God", others that he was "atheist". The question is debated. During his career, and for a variety of reasons, he made various comments against atheistic movements."
So to say he was Christian or Atheist might never be known for certain.
Hitler was a madman. Nobody doubts that.
And whether or not Hitler was Christian or Atheist has nothing to do with the validity of the Theory of Evolution.

Your last two sentences really sum it up.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#148135 Aug 18, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
No he wasn't, far from it. He controlled the pope and he claimed to be catholic...big difference in being a catholic and being a Christian.

That is an extremest fundy belief. The majority of Christians are Catholic.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#148136 Aug 18, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
From the same site;
"Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another… while the
enemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.”
Evidently in this quote he thought of Catholics and Christians differently.
Nope, reread your quote. He pointed out that Catholics and Protestants were fighting each other. Second he said the enemy of "Aryan humanity" that would of course be the "white master race" and all Christendom, again "Aryan humanity" would be a subset of this, is laughing up his sleeve.

He thought the Jews were the enemies of Christendom and they were the ones "laughing up their sleeves", since the Christians were fighting themselves rather than the enemy that Hitler perceived.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#148137 Aug 18, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Oops, my bad - I did give him an experiment he could so with the moon at night (obviously he ignored it) but did make it clear to do it at night before he blinded himself lookin at the sun so your advice regarding the imbecile is worthwhile
Besides, my guess he is well soaked in alcohol. Anywhere near an open flame and he would likely go up like fireworks.

My guess, he was too busy howling at the moon to run the experiment.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#148138 Aug 18, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Here we go again with the arrogant Christian prick deciding who is and who is not a Christian.
Judge not, jackass.
He is over on another thread calling my father a liar. I am not even sure why that would even come up. I think this guy checked out a long time ago and just left a light on. Not a very bright one.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#148139 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, reread your quote. He pointed out that Catholics and Protestants were fighting each other. Second he said the enemy of "Aryan humanity" that would of course be the "white master race" and all Christendom, again "Aryan humanity" would be a subset of this, is laughing up his sleeve.
He thought the Jews were the enemies of Christendom and they were the ones "laughing up their sleeves", since the Christians were fighting themselves rather than the enemy that Hitler perceived.
Hitler was controlled by satan. Is that not plain to see?

He was NOT controlled by God.

God=good

Satan=bad

Even if he was bat**** crazy, he was still committing satanic acts.
One way or another

United States

#148140 Aug 18, 2013
These Evo children are just a bunch of cackling hens. If only one of em had a brain.

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#148141 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, reread your quote. He pointed out that Catholics and Protestants were fighting each other. Second he said the enemy of "Aryan humanity" that would of course be the "white master race" and all Christendom, again "Aryan humanity" would be a subset of this, is laughing up his sleeve.
He thought the Jews were the enemies of Christendom and they were the ones "laughing up their sleeves", since the Christians were fighting themselves rather than the enemy that Hitler perceived.
Wrong.

Christendom,[1] or the Christian world,[2] has several meanings. In a cultural sense, it refers to the worldwide community of Christians, adherents of Christianity. In its historical sense, the term usually refers to the medieval and early modern period, during which the Christian world represented a geopolitical power juxtaposed with both paganism and especially the military threat of the Muslim world.

In a contemporary sense, it may simply refer collectively to Christian majority countries or countries in which Christianity dominates[1] or nations in which Christianity is the established religion.

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