Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179706 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

defender

Chicago, IL

#145714 Aug 4, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>Why would they wait 192,000 years to build cities?
Lol... Yeah

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#145715 Aug 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobodydiditwithmagic is a much worse situation because Nothing plus Nobody = Everything is illogical. And I assume you reject relatively theory as well.
Why would that be a problem? In your proposal, Nobody first creates your all knowing and infinitely complex God out of nothing, THEN he goes on to create everything out of nothing. It seems the Big Bang approach simply removes an unnecessary step, making it simpler and therefore much more likely.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#145716 Aug 4, 2013
Believer Doing Homework wrote:
Lg, you have asked dozens of times for believers in a Creator to produce evidence or admit we have no evidence or that we are liars!
There is plenty of historical evidence to prove much of what is written in the Bible. All you have to do to find much of it is to google "evidence of the Bible."
But, more important to those who believe in God, are the evidences that don't come with a scientific blueprint.. Evidence of changed lives, evidence of how one caring person can influence the life of another. The evidence of how one person determined to project evil on another can affect that other life. Etc, etc, etc.
FAITH Is "the substance of things HOPED for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen."
True believers in Yahweh/Jehovah/Elohim do not hope for anyone not to go to the Heaven we believe in. Only God knows and fully understands so much of what we take by faith. Because we know/believe Him to be all loving, all forgiving, all just...we leave what we don't understand in His Hands.
There is nothing about what I believe that should make you disrespect me, my faith, or make you angry!
I don't want to believe in a place called Hell. But, I know there is a reason for God to tell us just what He wants us to know about the final destination of EVIL. Only He fully understands and only He will judge.
"The hound of the Baskervilles" describes 19th Century London in great detail and is accurate. That doesn't make Sherlock Holmes real and it won't work for your Buy Bull either.

How people interact with each other or why also proves nothing about the Bible story.

Did you actually read this stupid statement?

FAITH Is "the substance of things HOPED for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen."

What substance is there of things HOPED for?.... NOTHING?
What EVIDENCE does FAITH provide of things not seen?.... NOTHING?

It's like that line from Forrest Gump ... "Stupid is as stupid does!" IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING INTELLIGIBLE!!!

So I guess you think that means it must be "real deep". Dumb azz!!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#145717 Aug 4, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would they wait 192,000 years to build cities?
Sometimes the permitting process is a real bitch.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#145718 Aug 4, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the belief; it's the actions taken on behalf of the belief. People who believe in God (not all, but only) are trying to undermine scientific education in America, which directly affects everyone who will attend school in America, which directly affects America's viability as a competitor in a global economy, which directly affects my ability to get the healthcare I need when I'm older (among other things). Should I not care about how America fares financially, or if I have the resources necessary in my home country to live a healthy and long life? Should I not care about how stupid America's citizenry is forced to become as a result of theocratic bullshit getting put into educational standards, textbooks, public school classrooms, and legislation? Should I not care about the Constitution and American civil rights? Why should we just pretend that these things that believers in God are doing are harmless? No, that is unacceptable, and your stance is a bullshit dishonest one. Science isn't going around trying to force churches to stop teaching religion, but Christians ARE going around trying to force schools to stop teaching science. That's one of the core problems. You tell us why that should be allowed under our watch.
He isn't too sharp. You have to spell it out for him. He is too busy stalking people, posting under multiple identities and defending neoconservative, fundamentalist bullies from their victims.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#145719 Aug 4, 2013
Believer Doing Homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Say what yo will, LG. You have made your "god" your own abilities and your quest to find EVIDENCE and soak in as much scientific knowledge as you possibly can in the short amount of time you will spend on this Earth.
As a believer, even if my beliefs should not turn out as I believe, I have looked at my life and the world and universe with an awesome appreciation and peace that can only be found in Faith (the substance of things hoed for/the evidence of things not seen).
You seem so frustrated with those of us who believe in a Creator. At times you seem almost desperate to project your scientific worldview on others. You seem hate, not only a creation worldview, but to hate those who have chosen that path for their lives.
My question to you is: why the disgust and disrespect for people with different opinions than you? Why do you feel such a seemingly burning desire to project your scientific worldview on others, who cannot take anything away from your quality of life, your ability to learn, or your passion for science.
Peace to you! Enjoy the world around you as you seek truth in science. Don't forget to "smell the roses." Life here is short, and full of adversity for all men.
I would ask a similar question of you. You go into great detail about how you view, faith and life are better than others. You make claims that you don't need to know some things, implying no one needs to know them and that it is a waste of time to look. How do you not seek to force your worldview onto others whether they ask or not? Unless you are living in a bubble, you surely are aware that science is under attack in this country and other countries by religious fundamentalists that want to force their worldview onto others. Why do fear science?

“Wrath”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#145720 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
The heavens and the earth came suddenly at the command of the Holy Word of God and everything began together. The Bible says it was done quickly. Everything in our material universe is patterned to work together as it does and earth days are a part of this great system, which moves to accomplish the work of God.
That happened 5 minutes ago too.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#145721 Aug 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
A weird, eclectic mix.
Man does not live by Bread alone. In fact, this one can do just fine without them at all.
FREE SERVANT

Ashburn, VA

#145722 Aug 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
That happened 5 minutes ago too.
You are here and your mother and father were here and their mother and father and so on. IF you go back more than 35 doublings, you get too many people. Where are they al burried?

“Wrath”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#145723 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You are here and your mother and father were here and their mother and father and so on. IF you go back more than 35 doublings, you get too many people. Where are they al burried?

The catacombs used to answer that question, without a doubt to answer it now would take serious research, if records exist that far back. If it were meaning full I would calculate about the amount of time, but 35 generations goes before creation of the US, I would be researching several countries.

Why are you asking me this questions...get to the point.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#145724 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You are here and your mother and father were here and their mother and father and so on. IF you go back more than 35 doublings, you get too many people. Where are they al burried?
Wow.
FREE SERVANT

Ashburn, VA

#145725 Aug 4, 2013
Scientist tell us that it is not possible for close family members to produce all the people we have on earth today as those with Noah after the flood,but they want us to believe every family living today has incest in its lineage. What gives?
One way or another

United States

#145726 Aug 4, 2013
There can be no light without heat.
FREE SERVANT

Ashburn, VA

#145727 Aug 4, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow.
Just sayin....

“Wrath”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#145728 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Scientist tell us that it is not possible for close family members to produce all the people we have on earth today as those with Noah after the flood,but they want us to believe every family living today has incest in its lineage. What gives?
Because everybody knows god created the earth either 6,000 years ago or 5 minutes ago. Either way there isn't enough time for all these people, so they all had babies with each other. Is that what you mean?
FREE SERVANT

Ashburn, VA

#145729 Aug 4, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Because everybody knows god created the earth either 6,000 years ago or 5 minutes ago. Either way there isn't enough time for all these people, so they all had babies with each other. Is that what you mean?
Tell us how many people with no incest involved can you count in your family going back 35 doublings?

“Wrath”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#145730 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Tell us how many people with no incest involved can you count in your family going back 35 doublings?


Just get to the point, I cannot say beyond 4 generations anything for certain.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#145731 Aug 4, 2013
Believer Doing Homework wrote:
There is plenty of historical evidence to prove much of what is written in the Bible. All you have to do to find much of it is to google "evidence of the Bible."
The Bible begins mythically and merges into a semi-historical account of the Israelites. It has a lot in common with the pre-Christian Greek "bibles", the Iliad and Odyssey attributed to Homer, but in reality an oral tradition of events occurring in the pre-Classical period.

In this book too, we see historical facts mixed with mythological events and heroes. Until 1880, the city of Troy was thought to be a part of that myth, not a real place. But it was discovered and thus the Iliad and Odyssey were put on a sound footing with real history. Not only that, but these books were the foundation of Greek morality and conduct, just as the Bible was for another culture.

WITHIN those Greek accounts, we see that Achilles was supposed to be the son of a human and the Goddess Thetis, a minor river goddess. Do you believe THAT part of it just because Troy turned out to be real? According to your standards, we should!

In fact the Bible follows the pattern of many ancient writings, created by humans where God or Gods were entwined with human and natural events. Its not unique or even unusual in that regard. Japanese, Chinese, and Indian (Hindu) histories follow a similar pattern, reflecting that early cultures filled their misty roots with a mixture of remembered fact and superstitious fiction. Did the Japanese Emperors really descend from Gods? Why not? Places referred to in Japanese accounts exist just the same as Jericho and Tyre.

As for the Bible, Genesis looks to be pretty much all myth, and the accounts become more historical the more recent they are. But clearly they never cross that line pioneered by Herodotus and perfected by Thucydides (Greeks), who championed a rational skeptical approach to history for the first time, abandoning reliance on myth and superstition fully.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#145732 Aug 4, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Tell us how many people with no incest involved can you count in your family going back 35 doublings?
How do you define incest?

Yes, the same ancestors can appear numerous times in your heritage. That does not mean they were closely related to the person they were with at the time.

Some people count incest only in the immediate family. In other word you can marry your cousin. It seems most quit counting at your first cousin. I don't even know any of my second cousins so I suppose it could have been possible. Even so the population of people has always be on the order of at least 1,000. Even when you go back to when we weren't people. It would always be possible to avoid close relatives with a large enough population.

Believers of the two major Genesis myths don't believe that dangerously close and intense incest didn't happen just once. They believe it happened twice in the history of humanity.

Thankfully the genetic data says that that never happened.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#145733 Aug 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
We have been over this before in great detail but if you're really interested I could give you an overview. First of all, your argument is based on the false assumption of naturalism and uniformitarianism. You are assuming that the light got here by natural means and travelled at a constant rate, over a constant distance, with time also being a constant. Now is there any logical reason why we should automatically know beforehand that these must be the case? The creation event was hardly a naturalistic event (You could say the same about BB.)
I could present the technical research that answers your questions but what would be the point? Just let it be known that we are quite comfortable with the solutions and have a very good working biblical creation cosmology. We no longer have a distant starlight/time problem.
Yes Urb, why not abandon "uniformitarianism and naturalism" and allow ourselves to make up any rules we want to fit with any old story, whether its Genesis or for that matter the Bhagavad Gita or Harry Potter? Whichever one we prefer to be true!

Yep, anything goes. lets multiply the speed of light arbitrarily, multiply radioactive decay by 700,000 times (and magic away the heat generated), lets move the continents as fast as jet boats and lets create magnetic reversals every day, and lets multiply sedimentation rates arbitrarily, and lets just stop the damned sun in the sky if we feel like it.

And yet, wherever scientists look, and they have looked hard, there is no observable violation of the laws of physics that work just as they do here and now. Spectrographic analysis shows that thousands and millions of years ago, radioactive decay rates worked the same as they do today, and other measurements show consistency in gravity, quantum physics, whatever.

In other words there is absolutely NO evidence that we should abandon the view that the laws worked in the past as they do now, certainly not to the magnitude required to validate your mythical cosmology.

Doesn't it strike even YOU as peculiar that the ONLY reason you question naturalism in science is because it utterly destroys your mythical preconceptions? Doesn't it strike you as weird that you will buy absolutely any amount of special pleading, exceptions, changes, just so you can keep denying the mountain of evidence stacked against you?

When WE counter one of your absurd YEC arguments, we have to do so within a consistent framework that adheres to the known laws of physics, based on everything that has been carefully observed over recent centuries. An explanation like density wave theory has to fit known facts about wave functions, gravitation, and all the known laws. That is WHY scientists spend years refining it until it does, and if it cannot work, look for an alternative.

But you think its on parity to just make up whatever shyte you can to distort reality so that it fits your myths, with no regard for what has actually been observed.

Might give you an inkling of why YEC is not regarded as anything but a retarded joke by real scientists.

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