Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180279 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

One way or another

United States

#142217 Jul 12, 2013
Laser light is what science used in the earth to moon and back to earth, retro reflector test, where in less than half a million miles, the laser light broke down into individual photons.

I offer proof.
One way or another

United States

#142218 Jul 12, 2013
Actually, science offers the proof, I just point it out.
One way or another

United States

#142219 Jul 12, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you suggesting that laser light moves faster than other light?
If people make mistakes, that's ok, everyone does, but nowhere in all the things I said, did I infer that laser light moved faster than natural light.

Making such claims without any proof is indicative of a child, unless you can show proof of such a claim. I merely reiterated what science claimed.

I use science and more, to point out sciences stupidity. Y'all point out your own.
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142220 Jul 12, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So as long as you have faith in something, you have hope. And if you have hope, then you have purpose. What if your purpose is to have faith and hope?
Much of my purpose in life is to have faith and hope so that I can share that faith and hope with those who have no faith and no hope.
Notice I said share. You can only share with someone who wants what you have to offer. It is not my purpose in life, nor is it my responsibility, to force my faith on anyone!
Do you have a spouse or a child that you would give your life for? That is the kind of love that cannot be explained intellectually. It is also the kind of love that does not die when you do!
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142221 Jul 12, 2013
You seem to put a lot of confidence in scientific assumption and theory. Call it whatever, but you are putting your faith in science having the answers for what you are and where, if anywhere, you are going when you no longer have a life on this planet.
I don't know how you can not think that if you just happened to live to experience this life once, that you might just find yourself back here again in some other "family" and totally different situation.
You think my thinking is foolish, I know. But, in my opinion, for you yo think you would exist once by happenstance, and know that you would never exist again by happenstance, takes more faith in the unknown than it takes for me to chose to have faith in One who is known to be more real than anything else in life (to those who have chosen Him).
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142222 Jul 12, 2013
Is there really that much difference in evolution and reincarnation, if you really stop and think about it.
You have a life that you think just came about for no lasting purpose, unless you think with your great intellect you are going to be able to help evolution along and your children may have a more comfortable life than you experienced, and so on.....
Those who think their only hope is to live a life that somehow measures up to some standard (set by something somewhere at some point in time) so that they will continue to evolve "forward"to a better life next time around are not thinking that much differently than you are.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142223 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Much of my purpose in life is to have faith and hope so that I can share that faith and hope with those who have no faith and no hope.
Notice I said share. You can only share with someone who wants what you have to offer. It is not my purpose in life, nor is it my responsibility, to force my faith on anyone!
Do you have a spouse or a child that you would give your life for? That is the kind of love that cannot be explained intellectually. It is also the kind of love that does not die when you do!
Some animals will risk their life for their offspring. What does that mean in your view of the world? Do you think these animals enjoy a personal relationship with God?

I agree, I don't force my religious views on others. I hope they appreciate it, but if it never comes up, that may be thanks enough. The views and discussion I join in here are about science and how fundamentalists seem to feel threatened by it.

You raise a point like dying for a loved one and apply some extraordinary source for that behavior. I point out that it is not a behavior isolated to humans. Perhaps there is a scientific explanation for it that is not related to the Bible. Research is certainly going down that path. Does that affect my views of God. Not one bit.
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142224 Jul 12, 2013
If light, time, and distance all came into existence with a "Big Bang" why is it we must calculate the speed of light using time and distance?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142225 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
Is there really that much difference in evolution and reincarnation, if you really stop and think about it.
You have a life that you think just came about for no lasting purpose, unless you think with your great intellect you are going to be able to help evolution along and your children may have a more comfortable life than you experienced, and so on.....
Those who think their only hope is to live a life that somehow measures up to some standard (set by something somewhere at some point in time) so that they will continue to evolve "forward"to a better life next time around are not thinking that much differently than you are.
Yes, one is science supported by facts and the other is an unsubstantiated religious view. Evolution makes no claims to the origins or purpose of life. How many people have to say this before this fact is understood. Some nut can make up some crap on the web and 15 minutes later it is believed by half the planet. But the facts of evolution don't seem to be able to break the sheep barrier.

Why is it such a problem that people want to base their views on reality? Especially if that reality really does nothing to prevent you from continuing to maintain your own personal views.

Evolution is not a plane of consciousness or some direction that is taken by an individual. Whether you accept it or not, it is the process by which life developed on this planet. This does not interfere with your personal beliefs unless you worship the Bible.

“e pluribus unum”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#142226 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
If light, time, and distance all came into existence with a "Big Bang" why is it we must calculate the speed of light using time and distance?
Why is it you use time and distances to calculate the speed of your car. Like speed limit 70 miles per hour.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142227 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
If light, time, and distance all came into existence with a "Big Bang" why is it we must calculate the speed of light using time and distance?
Because speed is calculated as distance over time. You ever drive a car?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142228 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
You seem to put a lot of confidence in scientific assumption and theory. Call it whatever, but you are putting your faith in science having the answers for what you are and where, if anywhere, you are going when you no longer have a life on this planet.
I don't know how you can not think that if you just happened to live to experience this life once, that you might just find yourself back here again in some other "family" and totally different situation.
You think my thinking is foolish, I know. But, in my opinion, for you yo think you would exist once by happenstance, and know that you would never exist again by happenstance, takes more faith in the unknown than it takes for me to chose to have faith in One who is known to be more real than anything else in life (to those who have chosen Him).
You enjoy the benefits of science, but refuse to understand it and are antagonistic to it. What a strange view of life.

If you had cancer would you stay at home and pray or would you go to a doctor that has an extensive background in biology and medicine?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142229 Jul 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it you use time and distances to calculate the speed of your car. Like speed limit 70 miles per hour.
Good answer.
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142230 Jul 12, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Some animals will risk their life for their offspring. What does that mean in your view of the world? Do you think these animals enjoy a personal relationship with God?
I agree, I don't force my religious views on others. I hope they appreciate it, but if it never comes up, that may be thanks enough. The views and discussion I join in here are about science and how fundamentalists seem to feel threatened by it.
You raise a point like dying for a loved one and apply some extraordinary source for that behavior. I point out that it is not a behavior isolated to humans. Perhaps there is a scientific explanation for it that is not related to the Bible. Research is certainly going down that path. Does that affect my views of God. Not one bit.
1. In their own way, maybe! I know God has a personal relationship to all of creation. Adam was given dominion over the animals. If I can love my pet, I'm sure God must love it too.
2. It seems to me it is the evolutionists who are threatened by the concept that there may very well be a Creator!
If god is who Jesus said He is, you are understandably threatened.
3. Why would others know what your views are if it never comes up? Why would they appreciate you not sharing views they don't know exist.
4. If you are determined to see yourself as just another species of animal(with nothing that sets you apart as "higher" in any way) you will, of course, not see your willingness to come to the rescue of your lived one at the risk of your own life, as anything other than instinct.
Survival instinct often sets in when an animal must decide whether to fight or escape leaving its young behind.
My comment referred to sacrificing your life if need be, not just jumping in to protect another person reacting to a sudden threat.
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142231 Jul 12, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You enjoy the benefits of science, but refuse to understand it and are antagonistic to it. What a strange view of life.
If you had cancer would you stay at home and pray or would you go to a doctor that has an extensive background in biology and medicine?
I am not at all antagonistic toward science! I am thankful to the scientists and others who have discovered ways to improve our lives in thousands of ways! I just attribute the knowledge and desire to gain and use that knowledge to something very special about the human species. That special component being a God given one.
I would pray to the God I believe created me and knows infinitely more about biology and what is possible through scientific research and discovery than any person can begin to conceive.
I would not leave off treatment unless the treatment diminished my quality of life today more than the cancer. I would certainly not leave off the prayer, because I know my fate and that of those I will leave behind is in God's hands, and He knows what is best and will make everything work for good to everyone involved, if we will trust Him.
We are all going to die somehow, someday. I am at peace praying for healing through medicine or miracle; and ultimately most importantly, that His Will be done in every circumstance of my life.
Don't mean this to sound self-righteous or super spiritual in a personal sense. I just know where I have chosen to place my faith. I am trying to make you see that I do not disrespect science, evolution, or you or anyone else who chooses to think or believe differently.
I think people of faith deserve the same respect from people who do not choose a faith based view of life.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142232 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
1. In their own way, maybe! I know God has a personal relationship to all of creation. Adam was given dominion over the animals. If I can love my pet, I'm sure God must love it too.
According to scientific evidence Adam as a person did not exist. Genesis is an allegory. But I know this evidence won't convince you.
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
2. It seems to me it is the evolutionists who are threatened by the concept that there may very well be a Creator!
If god is who Jesus said He is, you are understandably threatened.
Another failure to consider, understand or accept the evidence. Evolutionists are not trying to fill textbooks with material that is not science. Evolutionists are not forcing legal action. Evolutionists are not on crazy internet rampages to dispense lies and misinformation. That would be some form of Christian mostly. I don't feel threatened by the concepts of religion. I defend against the actions of self-appointed idiots though.
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>3. Why would others know what your views are if it never comes up? Why would they appreciate you not sharing views they don't know exist.
They wouldn't. Not all my friends believe the same and I respect that. By sharing, you mean shoving my views down their throat and taking on an air of arrogance at the superiority of my beliefs. I would like to keep my friends and maintain their respect.
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>4. If you are determined to see yourself as just another species of animal(with nothing that sets you apart as "higher" in any way) you will, of course, not see your willingness to come to the rescue of your lived one at the risk of your own life, as anything other than instinct.
I never said anything like that one way or the other. That is all your speculation based on your bias and assumed superior position. Your claims are untested conjecture whose only basis is belief. Willingness to do something and doing something are two different things. There are Christians out there whether you want to believe it or not that won't do what you claim. There are Muslims and Jews that will. There are no doubt atheists that will defend there children fiercely.
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Survival instinct often sets in when an animal must decide whether to fight or escape leaving its young behind.
My comment referred to sacrificing your life if need be, not just jumping in to protect another person reacting to a sudden threat.
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Are you asking if someone is willing to sacrifice their career for their kids so they have a better life as opposed to jumping in front a bullet for them. Is that supposed to be your example of evidence for your belief. I don't say God, because I am not convinced that God is the center of your belief system.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142233 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not at all antagonistic toward science! I am thankful to the scientists and others who have discovered ways to improve our lives in thousands of ways! I just attribute the knowledge and desire to gain and use that knowledge to something very special about the human species. That special component being a God given one.
I would pray to the God I believe created me and knows infinitely more about biology and what is possible through scientific research and discovery than any person can begin to conceive.
I would not leave off treatment unless the treatment diminished my quality of life today more than the cancer. I would certainly not leave off the prayer, because I know my fate and that of those I will leave behind is in God's hands, and He knows what is best and will make everything work for good to everyone involved, if we will trust Him.
We are all going to die somehow, someday. I am at peace praying for healing through medicine or miracle; and ultimately most importantly, that His Will be done in every circumstance of my life.
Don't mean this to sound self-righteous or super spiritual in a personal sense. I just know where I have chosen to place my faith. I am trying to make you see that I do not disrespect science, evolution, or you or anyone else who chooses to think or believe differently.
I think people of faith deserve the same respect from people who do not choose a faith based view of life.
If you were presented multiple lines of evidence arrived at independently by dozens of different scientists that showed that Adam and Eve as actual people did not exist or that there was never a global flood, what would you say? Keep in mind that none of this refutes the existence of God or even addresses that issue.

“e pluribus unum”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

primus inter pares

#142234 Jul 12, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
1. In their own way, maybe! I know God has a personal relationship to all of creation. Adam was given dominion over the animals. If I can love my pet, I'm sure God must love it too.
2. It seems to me it is the evolutionists who are threatened by the concept that there may very well be a Creator!
If god is who Jesus said He is, you are understandably threatened.
3. Why would others know what your views are if it never comes up? Why would they appreciate you not sharing views they don't know exist.
4. If you are determined to see yourself as just another species of animal(with nothing that sets you apart as "higher" in any way) you will, of course, not see your willingness to come to the rescue of your lived one at the risk of your own life, as anything other than instinct.
Survival instinct often sets in when an animal must decide whether to fight or escape leaving its young behind.
My comment referred to sacrificing your life if need be, not just jumping in to protect another person reacting to a sudden threat.
You can enjoy your guilt trips as you please, just don't expect us all to ride along with you.
Believer

Manchester, TN

#142235 Jul 12, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Good answer.
Because my car was assembled in a factory by people with limited knowledge and ability. My car will explode if a spark inadvertently ignites the gasoline I have put in the tank to make the car do what cars are designed to do.
My car will not stop if there is a malfunction in the breaking system, and all kinds of undesirable events could result (affecting more than just me and my car)).
My car has a speedometer that tells me how fast I am going determined by the amount if fuel used , determined by the amount of pressure I put on the accelerator, and the turning of the wheels, etc.....
There was no Big Bang that designed my car, or assembled my car, or put the gasoline in my car, or that designed a mechanism to allow me to be able to stop my car in spite of all the scientific reasons that might cause one to expect it should just keep going, and will without the brake working properly.
When I get in my car and head down the mountain I live on, am I putting my faith in the car itself, the people who designed the car, the people who assembled the car, the fact that a tree will stop my car if all else fails.... What do I want to put my faith in when I head down the mountain?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#142236 Jul 12, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You can enjoy your guilt trips as you please, just don't expect us all to ride along with you.
I like how the word "know" is abused and misused. As if a person was actually provided information about all of existence. And by implication actually understands what they received.

After listening to this sickly sentimentality, I am almost considering rethinking my own views of God and creating my own religion based on Arthurian legend and Monty Python. At least then there would be a farcical aquatic tart with a sword.

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