Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180300 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

One way or another

United States

#138970 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the probability wave function spreads "everywhere". When a photon interacts with other particles, like those in your eyeball, the wave function collapses to a single location, which can only be predicted according to the probabilities in the original wave function. Its quantum physics and at that level particles behave nothing like the large scale reality you expect to see every day. And you will not ever bother to learn anything about it.
There IS a case of individuals seeing single photons, and that was in Rutherford's famous experiment where he "split the atom". He had observers sitting in total darkness for half an hour than observing the tiny flashes as alpha particles bounced off gold nuclei, emitting a single photon in the process. This is how he learned about the internal structure of the atom, one of the most famous experiments of all time.
Children change the subject when they have nothing to offer to the subject at hand.
"A dust tail like Earth's could produce a bigger signal than a planet does. And it could alert researchers to a planet too small to see otherwise."
Earth has a dust tail not because the planet itself is particularly dusty, but rather because the whole solar system is. Interplanetary space is littered with dusty fragments of comets and colliding asteroids. When Earth orbits through this dusty environment, a tail forms in the rear, akin to swaths of fallen leaves swirling up behind a streetsweeper.
"As Earth orbits the sun, it creates a sort of shell or depression that dust particles fall into, creating a thickening of dust Ė the tail Ė that Earth pulls along via gravity," explains Werner. "In fact, the tail trails our planet all the way around the sun, forming a large dusty ring."

A computer simulation of Earth's dust tail/ring seen from a vantage point outside our solar system. Colors indicate density; purple is lowest, red is highest. Credit: Christopher Stark, GSFC [larger image]
Spitzer's recent observations have helped astronomers map the structure of Earth's dust tail and figure out what similar "tell-tale tails" attached to alien planets might look like.
Like our own solar system, other planetary systems are infused with dust that forms a dusty disk encircling the central star. And like Earth, exoplanets interact with their dust disk gravitationally, channeling and drawing strange features into it.
"In some stars' dust disks there are bumps, warps, rings, and offsets telling us that planets are interacting with the dust," explains Mark Clampin of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. "So we can 'follow the dust' to the planets. So far, we've seen about 20 dust disks in other solar systems. And in some of those cases, following the dust has already paid off."
Clampin, Paul Kalas, and colleagues were looking for a planet around the bright southern star Fomalhaut when they unexpectedly found a dust ring. The shape of that ring led them to their goal. "We suspected that the ring's sharp inner edge was formed by a planet gravitationally clearing out the surrounding debris," says Clampin. "We tracked the planet by this 'footprint' in the dust." (See the footprint here.)
Another Hubble image shows a dusty disk around Beta Pictoris, a star in the constellation Pictor, or "Painter's Easel," pictured below:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-...

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138971 Jun 26, 2013
Let's make this challenge open to every evolutionists.

Here is a simple challenge for you. It should be simple by the way you talk about evolution and how it is the backbone of science.

List the top 15 things that have helped man kind and/or made life better that is "Credited To Evolution". Links will be needed for evidence.
One way or another

United States

#138972 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, he is not attempting to prove evolution by disproving Noah's Flood.
He is attempting to point out that your alternative explanation, the reason you and so many others reject the findings of biology, geology, physics, and astronomy, is demonstrably false. Therefore it is not an adequate basis for rejecting all these fields.
And he is right. Noah's Flood is comprehensively disproven. Its not even just a lack of evidence for the Flood, its evidence that actively falsifies the possibility.
Then show something in the sciences above, that can't get along without evolution.

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#138973 Jun 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
The irony is he'd call this "Man-On-Fire" an idiot just for that part, but also regard him as insane for denying science while using the machines brought to him by science.
I had notice that, MOF employs the rather typical hypocrisy of his sort.
One way or another

United States

#138974 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your vain, idiotic attempts to equate supporting evolution with "disproving God" only underscore that its not God you are in love with, its the myths of ancient Jews.
Nothing ANYONE has said here attempts to disprove the existence of God.
You're a child that acts like a bully, needing attention.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138975 Jun 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
The irony is he'd call this "Man-On-Fire" an idiot just for that part, but also regard him as insane for denying science while using the machines brought to him by science.
Bill gates brought me my machine and as you said he is no scientists.
One way or another

United States

#138976 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, he is not attempting to prove evolution by disproving Noah's Flood.
He is attempting to point out that your alternative explanation, the reason you and so many others reject the findings of biology, geology, physics, and astronomy, is demonstrably false. Therefore it is not an adequate basis for rejecting all these fields.
And he is right. Noah's Flood is comprehensively disproven. Its not even just a lack of evidence for the Flood, its evidence that actively falsifies the possibility.
That's because none of you have anything positive about evolution, that you try to use negatives about others.
One way or another

United States

#138977 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is the whole point. Evolution is a natural mechanism that creates ordered complexity without intelligence. We know how it does this and there is nothing mysterious about it. If you ever bother to learn how it works, you might be surprised.
Science is, while evoisim is a usurper, with no value.
One way or another

United States

#138978 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Watch out now Aura. If you try to say he is wrong in anything he says, he will attack you.
She and the rest act like a childish clique from school.
One way or another

United States

#138979 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a response based on the simple and accurate logic that the process of evolution can only operate on a pre-existing self replicating unit. Therefore however life first got here, it could NOT have been the result of evolution.
How many times do you need to be told this before you understand it?
<quoted text>
Go ahead. Troll through all of life's diversity and identify supposed IC. Then demand that we provide just-so stories. Waste your day. We do not have an explanation for the mantis shrimp's weaponry, because we do not have the fossil antecedents to do so. Perhaps one day we will, perhaps not.
It is irrelevant, since you cannot even in principle rule out all the possible pathways to a praying mantis shrimp's weaponry. You cannot even in principle know them.
When will it sink in that although there are falsification tests for evolution, this is not one of them. Its a failed approach.
Poor chimney, acts like he knows everything in the world, when in reality, he's a would be bully, that has nothing but criticism to offer, because he has nothing of value himself.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138980 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
My comment was - Just a few simple questions then.
1. Do you think the earth is less or more polluted that is was 200 years ago?
2. Do you think that man has added to the preservation of earth or added to the demise of earth in the last 200 years?
No matter how much man advances, with out a good, clean, healthy, solid earth to live on he is and will be nothing in the end.
KittenKoder's reply was - Yet, you deny the very science that tells you how "healthy" the planet is.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TCT...
KK can say what she likes. I am not responsible for what KK says. I am more interested in your response to what I say, as I engaged your questions in good faith.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138981 Jun 26, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Poor chimney, acts like he knows everything in the world, when in reality, he's a would be bully, that has nothing but criticism to offer, because he has nothing of value himself.
Who reads one paragraph in a science magazine article then thinks he knows more about:

immunology
child psychology
cosmology
astronomy
physics
biology
climate science

than all of the rest of the world's experts in these subject put together?

So Jim, when I put your attitude so plainly, and truthfully, directly to you, who is the real idiot know-it-all here? Its not me, buddy.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138982 Jun 26, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a child that acts like a bully, needing attention.
Look in the mirror Jimbo.

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#138983 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Kitty here is a simple challenge for you. It should be simple by the way you talk.
List the top 15 things that have helped man kind and/or made life better that is credited to evolution. Links will be needed for evidence.
I hope you donít mind Kitten, I saw this as a challenge than needed some action.

1 The most important, we are here.
2. Huge employment in the field of the multi billion dollar science/industry of Bioinformatics,
3 Decease control, or perhaps you would prefer to go back to the old methods of shamans and blood letting?
4 Pest control, Targeted insecticides
5 Modified wheat, developed using evolutionary theory is said to have saved over 1 BILLION people for dying of starvation
6 Evolutionary theory is used to manage fisheries for greater yields, thus also reducing starvation
7 improved public health brought about by the ability to undrstnd and destroy parasites
8 Improved and targeted drugs, are helping to alleviate virulent and deadly diseases
9 Disease tracking
10 region specific vaccines
11Antibiotics
12 mathematical/statistical techniques developed for evolutionary science are used in science, industry and education
13 Evolutionary principals are the for genetic algorithms used in architecture, engineering, aerospace, mining, drug resource, electronics design, finance, military strategy and many, many more field.
14 creation of bacteria to digest and decompose hazardous material
15 Anti evolutionary ideas have been around since the times of the ancient Greeks and have produce NOTHING of any practical application.

As for links, look them up yourself, I can assure you that they exist. I am not here to educate you or to waste my time because you are too ignorant to peruse those links even if I supplied them and all you would do is poo-poo them out of pure incredulous ignorance.

Nope what I am here for is to make you look foolish
One way or another

United States

#138984 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you would be wrong. I would ascribe supreme importance to evidence and logic. If evolution ever fails on these counts, then out the door it goes. It hasn't yet, but its always possible.
Why do I place "supreme importance" on evidence and logic? Because these have solved real problems and given us a huge understanding of the world.
Show us the logic of gravitational lensing, when science distorts the Hubble lense to enlarge subjects at great distances, which makes the subjects brighter, larger and adding distorted coronas, creating the so called, gravitational lensing, because no gravitational lensing shows up, unless the subjects are greatly enlarged and distorted.

Show the logic in speed of light, when dust is all thought our universe and light is so easily deflected over vast distances.
One way or another

United States

#138985 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh so now I am a nut? You just like to attack if someone disagrees with you or may know more on a subject than you do. I see that as childish like a bully saying agree with me or I will beat you up with names and attack your believes since I cannot take your lunch money.
You let so many things in life bother you to a point of where you attack even though they have no effect in or on your life or what you believe. That seems like a insecure person but don't know you so it is a guess.
If you were walking down a street and encountered a dog behind a fence would you hit that dog with a bat just because he barked at you instead of just letting you pass without barking?
Point being he would be no threat to you, his bark would not effect or change your life in anyway, so why attack him him with a bat?
That's just what school taught the poor, Evo souls, here. They have nothing else.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138986 Jun 26, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
Children change the subject when they have nothing to offer to the subject at hand.
A dust tail like Earth's could produce a bigger signal than a planet does. And it could alert researchers to a planet too small to see otherwise."
Get over yourself Jimbo. "Science" i.e. Astronomers have never claimed that space was a perfect vacuum. Too bad you have launched an entire attack against scientists yet again on the basis of your faulty understanding.

I showed you the links providing current estimates of the actual amount of material in the "vacuum" of space. Yes, by actual scientists.

You spoke of photons. I mentioned the probability wave function in direct response to your - as usual - abusive and bullying questions. Now you claim its changing the subject. You brought it up.

I never bully anyone unless they continue to lie, including lies about what others have said on this forum, or they run ad hominem attacks first. Its called tit for tat. You insult me, you little prick, and you are fair game for whatever comes back.

Since that is all you do, then that is all you will get in response. You are a liar and a willing ignoramus, and your motivation is hatred of anyone who knows more than you, which is just about everyone over the age of seven.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138987 Jun 26, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you donít mind Kitten, I saw this as a challenge than needed some action.
1 The most important, we are here.
2. Huge employment in the field of the multi billion dollar science/industry of Bioinformatics,
3 Decease control, or perhaps you would prefer to go back to the old methods of shamans and blood letting?
4 Pest control, Targeted insecticides
5 Modified wheat, developed using evolutionary theory is said to have saved over 1 BILLION people for dying of starvation
6 Evolutionary theory is used to manage fisheries for greater yields, thus also reducing starvation
7 improved public health brought about by the ability to undrstnd and destroy parasites
8 Improved and targeted drugs, are helping to alleviate virulent and deadly diseases
9 Disease tracking
10 region specific vaccines
11Antibiotics
12 mathematical/statistical techniques developed for evolutionary science are used in science, industry and education
13 Evolutionary principals are the for genetic algorithms used in architecture, engineering, aerospace, mining, drug resource, electronics design, finance, military strategy and many, many more field.
14 creation of bacteria to digest and decompose hazardous material
15 Anti evolutionary ideas have been around since the times of the ancient Greeks and have produce NOTHING of any practical application.
As for links, look them up yourself, I can assure you that they exist. I am not here to educate you or to waste my time because you are too ignorant to peruse those links even if I supplied them and all you would do is poo-poo them out of pure incredulous ignorance.
Nope what I am here for is to make you look foolish
You can answer if you want. But to think most all of that would not be possible with out evolution is silly. Well your first one is a no brainer. They do get paid to research evolution.

As for links you all say that if someone makes a claim that they need to have evidence to back up what they say. So it is for you to provide the evidence with your claims.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138988 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
Let's make this challenge open to every evolutionists.
Here is a simple challenge for you. It should be simple by the way you talk about evolution and how it is the backbone of science.
List the top 15 things that have helped man kind and/or made life better that is "Credited To Evolution". Links will be needed for evidence.
I am sure others will provide good answers, but to me its not relevant. Science is not just there to provide us with a better toothpaste, its an exploration of the universe we live in. We do get better toothpaste too, but thats a bonus.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138989 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Who reads one paragraph in a science magazine article then thinks he knows more about:
immunology
child psychology
cosmology
astronomy
physics
biology
climate science
than all of the rest of the world's experts in these subject put together?
So Jim, when I put your attitude so plainly, and truthfully, directly to you, who is the real idiot know-it-all here? Its not me, buddy.
I would say several on this link think that. You can tell that just by the way they reply with saying everyone else is wrong and they are right. I think tonight you have seen several examples of that.

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