Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180279 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138933 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution does not need emotions. It is not need love, missing, hurting. It is about a species surviving, going on, adapting, survival of the fittest and emotions would be considered a weakness in survival.
Really?

Love - what binds us to our children and our friends and our partners. Take the child bond. Having invested time, energy, food, and attention on an offspring, what binds us to caring for its survival? Why are friends valuable in a survival sense? etc.

Fear - what makes us recognise danger?

Happiness and pleasure - what tells us that our actions are going in a direction that is positive for survival?

Notably, these emotion precede logical thinking in evolution, they are the original signals that evolved to guide our behavior. So they are very much part of our survival kit, and the Spocklike approach of non-emotional analysis of every situation would leave you dead, fast, in a real emergency. Thats why Kirk was the Captain, dummy!

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#138934 Jun 26, 2013
I need to clarify that the epic is believable in the construction of the boat and numbers of animals involved. But not all of it anyway...lol.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138935 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
It is said that man will eventually destroy himself. Removing all belief and faith is going in that direction. There would be no more help from charities, hospitals, people, churches, ect ect that do it all upon their faith and belief. More people would die from lack of that help. Crime would rise for more would need and because no one would have nothing to believe in anymore. No one would care as much as they do anymore. They would see their life as it all ends when I die so I might as well live the best I can now no matter who I hurt or destroy to get that. Oh you are hungry, well to bad I have no desire or reason to help you plus I am not hungry so be gone. Ect ect. I think you see the picture.
The reality falsifies your fears. Recently I posted links showing Sweden has one of the lowest rates of Christian belief of any former Christian country.

They also had the 4th highest life expectancy, second lowest corruption, were near the top of the happiness index, the education index, the income equality index, and so on. As a country they provide foreign aid at a far greater per capita level than the USA, and not in the form of "military aid" either.

There are other similar examples including the rest of Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, even Canada, Japan, South Korea, etc, to varying degrees.

While Christian Fundamentalists prattle about the coming endtimes and even hope for them, those who do not share their views get involved with green energy, conservation, anti-pollution, third world education and health initiatives, and so on.

For non-believers in your cult, the world has a future and the rest of us would like to see that future being even better than the massive progress achieved so far. While all that Fundies seem to do is bury their heads in the sand hoping Jesus will return soon to clean it all up and make the bad people go away.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138936 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Science brought us medicine. Science brought us the evolution theory. Evolution did not bring us science.
How many hospitals around the world offer cheap to near free help for kids/people. There are many that do it in the faith of Jesus and our Lord. There are none "0" that do it in the believe of evolution.
This has nothing to do with the price of rice in China. However, many hospitals are run by atheists, in my state, almost all are.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138937 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do they give? What they give does not even come close to what they write off in their taxes. Every penny they give they make money from it or make/save money from their taxes. Surely you are not that blind.
Baloney. Bill Gates put 25 billion into his trust and has done more to reduce malaria and TB in Africa and there is no way he would ever have had to pay that much in taxes. You just cannot understand the fact that atheists do NOT behave according to your cardboard cutout parody of how you think they SHOULD behave as explained to you by your CHURCH. Surprise surprise, they are decent human beings. And they do it WITHOUT the fear of God or the promise of everlasting life. What does that tell you?

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138938 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Really?
Love - what binds us to our children and our friends and our partners. Take the child bond. Having invested time, energy, food, and attention on an offspring, what binds us to caring for its survival? Why are friends valuable in a survival sense? etc.
Fear - what makes us recognise danger?
Happiness and pleasure - what tells us that our actions are going in a direction that is positive for survival?
Notably, these emotion precede logical thinking in evolution, they are the original signals that evolved to guide our behavior. So they are very much part of our survival kit, and the Spocklike approach of non-emotional analysis of every situation would leave you dead, fast, in a real emergency. Thats why Kirk was the Captain, dummy!
As SubDuction Zone said, Long story short. If all your family, every last surviving one of them where in a huge fire and you were outside that fire. Now you could go in and try to save one, maybe two of them based on your emotions or you could just walk away and reproduce to insure your survival of not only yourself but also your offspring.
99.9999% of the time you would go in and end up dying with them and your line would stop.

Thus again emotions are a weakness when it comes to survival.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138939 Jun 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
This has nothing to do with the price of rice in China. However, many hospitals are run by atheists, in my state, almost all are.
What does the price of rice in China have to do with anything except the price of the rice in China?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138940 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
What does the price of rice in China have to do with anything except the price of the rice in China?
That's what the adage means, yes.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138941 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Baloney. Bill Gates put 25 billion into his trust and has done more to reduce malaria and TB in Africa and there is no way he would ever have had to pay that much in taxes. You just cannot understand the fact that atheists do NOT behave according to your cardboard cutout parody of how you think they SHOULD behave as explained to you by your CHURCH. Surprise surprise, they are decent human beings. And they do it WITHOUT the fear of God or the promise of everlasting life. What does that tell you?
Bill Gates was agnostic. He believed that the knowing or unknowing of God was unknowable. People like that, especially those that have more than they will ever need, tend to do good for that "just in case matter"

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#138942 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
As SubDuction Zone said, Long story short. If all your family, every last surviving one of them where in a huge fire and you were outside that fire. Now you could go in and try to save one, maybe two of them based on your emotions or you could just walk away and reproduce to insure your survival of not only yourself but also your offspring.
99.9999% of the time you would go in and end up dying with them and your line would stop.
Thus again emotions are a weakness when it comes to survival.
That's a highly constructed chain of events and a strawman
argument.

The emotions we have make us tend our young, old and drive us to procreate and provide for our families, also they had to play a role in developing civilization, so your argument is "epic fail".

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138943 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
As SubDuction Zone said, Long story short. If all your family, every last surviving one of them where in a huge fire and you were outside that fire. Now you could go in and try to save one, maybe two of them based on your emotions or you could just walk away and reproduce to insure your survival of not only yourself but also your offspring.
99.9999% of the time you would go in and end up dying with them and your line would stop.
Thus again emotions are a weakness when it comes to survival.
Strawman. Next fallacy is ....

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138944 Jun 26, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The reality falsifies your fears. Recently I posted links showing Sweden has one of the lowest rates of Christian belief of any former Christian country.
They also had the 4th highest life expectancy, second lowest corruption, were near the top of the happiness index, the education index, the income equality index, and so on. As a country they provide foreign aid at a far greater per capita level than the USA, and not in the form of "military aid" either.
There are other similar examples including the rest of Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, even Canada, Japan, South Korea, etc, to varying degrees.
While Christian Fundamentalists prattle about the coming endtimes and even hope for them, those who do not share their views get involved with green energy, conservation, anti-pollution, third world education and health initiatives, and so on.
For non-believers in your cult, the world has a future and the rest of us would like to see that future being even better than the massive progress achieved so far. While all that Fundies seem to do is bury their heads in the sand hoping Jesus will return soon to clean it all up and make the bad people go away.
Just a few simple questions then.
1. Do you think the earth is less or more polluted that is was 200 years ago?

2. Do you think that man has added to the preservation of earth or added to the demise of earth in the last 200 years?

No matter how much man advances, with out a good, clean, healthy, solid earth to live on he is and will be nothing in the end.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138945 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Bill Gates was agnostic. He believed that the knowing or unknowing of God was unknowable. People like that, especially those that have more than they will ever need, tend to do good for that "just in case matter"
Bill is an atheist, and he supports only organizations that do not discriminate. Your projection is noted as well, Bill does it because he believes that to better the human species, everyone must have a chance to contribute, as well as his ethical standards being higher than the christians. You see, the only organizations he does not support are all christian, though he does support many christian organizations, the ones he finds lacking in compassion are all christian.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138946 Jun 26, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> That's a highly constructed chain of events and a strawman
argument.
The emotions we have make us tend our young, old and drive us to procreate and provide for our families, also they had to play a role in developing civilization, so your argument is "epic fail".
I don't have an argument. Just saying emotions are as much of a weakness as they are anything.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138947 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a few simple questions then.
1. Do you think the earth is less or more polluted that is was 200 years ago?
2. Do you think that man has added to the preservation of earth or added to the demise of earth in the last 200 years?
No matter how much man advances, with out a good, clean, healthy, solid earth to live on he is and will be nothing in the end.
Yet, you deny the very science that tells you how "healthy" the planet is.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138948 Jun 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Strawman. Next fallacy is ....
Not a strawman. It is that you can't answer it. If you say yes you would go in then you show emotions are a weakness, emotions would kill you off and thus survival would stop. If you say you would walk away then you would be considered cold hearted, uncaring and cruel.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#138949 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a strawman. It is that you can't answer it. If you say yes you would go in then you show emotions are a weakness, emotions would kill you off and thus survival would stop. If you say you would walk away then you would be considered cold hearted, uncaring and cruel.
Answer what? You posted no questions at all.

But you just demonstrated how desperate you are now. Survival traits selected for are those which benefit the species, not the individual. It's the effect of having multiple organisms on the planet. The specific emotion you are addressing here does improve the chances of survival for the offspring of said organism, thus increasing the chances of the trait propagating the species. Sacrificing your life for your offspring is beneficial to the species, no matter how you spin it.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#138950 Jun 26, 2013
Man-on-Fire wrote:
<quoted text>
As SubDuction Zone said, Long story short. If all your family, every last surviving one of them where in a huge fire and you were outside that fire. Now you could go in and try to save one, maybe two of them based on your emotions or you could just walk away and reproduce to insure your survival of not only yourself but also your offspring.
99.9999% of the time you would go in and end up dying with them and your line would stop.
Thus again emotions are a weakness when it comes to survival.
You are missing the bigger picture.

Your emotional response is a rough-n-ready tool that will produce a positive outcome more often than a negative one, which is why its selected by evolution.

I could just as easily say a Christian should leave them to burn, especially if he knows that they are saved Christians as well, because they are going to a better place. Therefore he can stick around and produce more good little Christians too, and send even more souls to heaven! But that makes no sense either.

The bonds that would possibly lead you into that fire are the same ones that IN GENERAL serve to help protect you and your kin and raised your total odds of survival, day after day. Usually you have no way of knowing what the odds of success are in a given situation. So you love each other, help each other, and the total odds are improved over the long term by this communal effort to help each other, bonded by ties of love and attachment.

“A belief is formed personally.”

Level 2

Since: Jun 13

Not forced.

#138951 Jun 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Bill is an atheist, and he supports only organizations that do not discriminate. Your projection is noted as well, Bill does it because he believes that to better the human species, everyone must have a chance to contribute, as well as his ethical standards being higher than the christians. You see, the only organizations he does not support are all christian, though he does support many christian organizations, the ones he finds lacking in compassion are all christian.
Bill Gates - In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.

http://archive.theamericanview.com/index.php...

Gates was born into a Protestant Christian church, but is now conclusively an agnostic. We may be able to even consider him a scientist.

http://hollowverse.com/bill-gates/

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#138952 Jun 26, 2013
the dark lord wrote:
<quoted text>
as far as the law of thermodynamics was concerned they were written
in what might be concerned as the dark ages of science.
people look back at those Einsteinium years with a natural sense of envy.
astro physics had telescopes but i am not convinced that all scientists even
Einstein himself had access to what the situation was in space.
i have every faith that adam and eve came first,
as the first plants of the wilderness.
unless madam was the tree of life
and eve the tree of good and evil.
you choose lover.
you are either a bull lover
or a bull [email protected]
and i disbelieve your a bull [email protected]
so you must be a lover.
Nope, the laws of thermodynamics were evaluated and understood in the age of science, however they have existed for just a fraction of a second less than the universe has existed. Without them the universe could not have existed in its current state and you would not exist.

They existed when a bronze age goat herder got stoned and first had a goddidit idea, he could not help it, he was ignorant of fact (and hallucinating). They existed and were in force when the planets coalesced around our sun, they existed and were in force at the time of the previous two suns that resulted in our own sun (sol is 3rd generation). They existed before any suns existed. They existed for much of the time before the universal plasma cloud began to cool thus allowing those first suns to form. They began to form around 10^-34th of a second after the event of the big bang. FYI, that is billions of times shorter time period than the time between two clock ticks of the fastest computer ever built on earth.

What is happening here is that you are confusing the documentation describing an event with the fact of an event. Do you really think that stone came into existence when the Sumarians first carved letters into stone tablets?

I don’t really care about your faith, your faith is simply that, faith, look up the meaning of the word. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. Your belief in no way makes any difference to facts.

FYI, I have no god therefore I have no need to lie. In fact I have no tolerance for lies and find them abhorrent, hence the reason I object to so many religions where the subjects are taught to lie for their god. So no not a BSer

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 2 min Into The Night 57,951
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... 24 min lightbeamrider 1,798
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 27 min Timmee 159,252
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 2 hr Eagle 12 27,254
News Intelligent Design Education Day Sun replaytime 2
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) Sun replaytime 219,597
News Betsy DeVos' Code Words for Creationism Offshoo... Feb 16 scientia potentia... 1
More from around the web