Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180394 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Believer

Manchester, TN

#138287 Jun 23, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
This is EXACTLY how you should speak when addressing a subject about which you are ignorant. You say, "this is something I don't understand; here's the limit of my understanding, and I'd like to know more." What we don't do is say things like, "I don't understand subject X, therefore the science behind subject X is false and my favorite religious storybook is the correct explanation for subject X."
We currently know less and less about what exists RIGHT NOW the farther away from Earth we look. Now, we can make educated guesses based on the evidence we've seen from light that has spent millions of years making the trip from its source to Earth, but we don't actually know what exists today in any other solar system or any other galaxy. The best we can say is, X amount of time ago, Y existed in Z region.
The very farthest things we've seen is this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/most...
Its light has been speeding towards Earth for 13.3 billion years. That means it has existed almost as long as the universe itself, and has spent almost the entire existence of the universe getting its light this far. No matter how far an object is that we see, there are a couple things we can safely say: it probably doesn't exist RIGHT NOW; it isn't so far that the time its light has spent getting here exceeds the time the universe has existed; whatever changes we see occur in it are going to look like they're happening now, but they actually occurred before our solar system ever even existed; our galaxy will likely be destroyed before today's events in that location are visible from here (and vice versa).
The power that lies in seeing the past in the present is that we can see what happens to solar systems and galaxies to better understand what will happen with our solar system and galaxy without having to figure it out on the fly. One of the many reason we continue to look out into space.
Now, can you think of a way to ask questions about evolutionary theory like you did regarding space so you can learn more about it rather than making silly assertions and using logical fallacies to support your religious beliefs?
I appreciate you time explaining your understanding of the answer to my question.
As for evolutionary theory, I think I understand enough about that to know I have no problem with a certain amount of evolution being being a part of what I believe to be a Created Earth.
I don't remember ever really believing in Santa Clause, even though we did leave cookies on the window sill since we didn't have a chimney.:)
I don't remember ever really believing in the tooth fairy either, even though I do remember putting at least one tooth under my pillow and finding a quarter under my pillow next morning. I also remember my tooth still being there and Mom telling me the tooth fairy must not have neede it . How rude !
We didn't do the Easter bunny thing, so never believed in it either.
I can't remember a time in my life when I was not aware of the existence of God. No amount of knowledge or scientific evidence, theory, or proof could make me not believe in God. I'm sure any proof science comes up with will fit nicely into my supernatural Faith based worldview.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#138288 Jun 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Newton believed in intelligent design.
You tried to discredit him by pointing to his belief in alchemy.
Translation...you think that you are smarter than Newton, ie, Newton was a moron.

No, Newton was a Christian (of sorts). "Intelligent design" did not exist back in his day. Neither did creationism (per se) nor evolutionism (sic).

I have been very clear about what I have said about Newton. I have said nothing to discredit him as a scientist. You are attempting to lie with the authority of the author of lies.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138289 Jun 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are smarter than Newton be ause you have been enlightened by atheism?
Did I say that you moron?

Do I know more about how the world works than Newton? Yes, I do. But that is only because others took Newton's work and added to it. It does not meant that I am smarter than Newton.

But you being dumber than a sack of hammers will probably not understand this.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#138290 Jun 23, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that just looks like a few pixels, not much more. But isn't it true no matter how far you look, you see fully formed galaxies, not at all what you'd expect from any big bang theory. It's as if they were all created and fine tuned. There is also the horizon problem. According to the CMB, the temperature of 2.7 K is extremely uniform in all directions. So the Big Bang has a big problem. A travel-light problem. There has not been near enough time for light to have been exchanged from one extreme side to the other, i.e., from hot to cold. Secular scientists explain this with their Inflation Model but this just creates more questions than answers. What made it start? What made it stop? Another issue is spiral galaxies. We see lots of them billions of light years away but according to the laws of physics should be all wound up after just a few hundred million years but they're not. They all appear just as young no matter how far you look. All secular scientists can do is make up unobserved just-so stories to explain it such as spiral density waves that are supposed to create new spiral arms but of course this has never been observed either so is pure conjecture.

Put astronomy on your list of things you need to learn about.

"all wound up"?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#138291 Jun 23, 2013
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
I appreciate you time explaining your understanding of the answer to my question.
As for evolutionary theory, I think I understand enough about that to know I have no problem with a certain amount of evolution being being a part of what I believe to be a Created Earth.
I don't remember ever really believing in Santa Clause, even though we did leave cookies on the window sill since we didn't have a chimney.:)
I don't remember ever really believing in the tooth fairy either, even though I do remember putting at least one tooth under my pillow and finding a quarter under my pillow next morning. I also remember my tooth still being there and Mom telling me the tooth fairy must not have neede it . How rude !
We didn't do the Easter bunny thing, so never believed in it either.
I can't remember a time in my life when I was not aware of the existence of God. No amount of knowledge or scientific evidence, theory, or proof could make me not believe in God. I'm sure any proof science comes up with will fit nicely into my supernatural Faith based worldview.

This is a shame. This indicates that you are not yet a real Christian.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138292 Jun 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Newton believed in intelligent design.
You tried to discredit him by pointing to his belief in alchemy.
Translation...you think that you are smarter than Newton, ie, Newton was a moron.
Newton could not have believed in IDiocy. IDiocy was not invented until after creatards lost the court battles on teaching creationism in school. IDiocy is merely creatardism in sheep's clothing.

It is not even a "real" belief. You won't even define it. It can't be much more obvious that it is a false belief when the people that supposedly believe in it won't even say what it is.

Once again, idiot, knowing things that Newton did not know does not make us smarter than Newton. I know of the equivalency between energy and matter. Newton had no clue about that. He would have laughed at our claims. He would have been extremely wrong. That was very dramatically shown in two cities and numerous tests since then.

So, since I know of the mass energy equivalency and Newton didn't, does that make me smarter than Newton?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138293 Jun 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Put astronomy on your list of things you need to learn about.
"all wound up"?
It is a stupid claim of Kent Hovind and other creatards. Some Christian "physicist" somewhere made a claim that spiral galaxies are unstable. They glommed onto that claim as if it were a lifesaver and they had just fallen off of the Titanic.

Of course computer simulations have shown that spirals are stable forms for the universe to be in.

“We were created”

Level 1

Since: Jun 13

Then we evolved

#138294 Jun 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Newton could not have believed in IDiocy. IDiocy was not invented until after creatards lost the court battles on teaching creationism in school. IDiocy is merely creatardism in sheep's clothing.
It is not even a "real" belief. You won't even define it. It can't be much more obvious that it is a false belief when the people that supposedly believe in it won't even say what it is.
Once again, idiot, knowing things that Newton did not know does not make us smarter than Newton. I know of the equivalency between energy and matter. Newton had no clue about that. He would have laughed at our claims. He would have been extremely wrong. That was very dramatically shown in two cities and numerous tests since then.
So, since I know of the mass energy equivalency and Newton didn't, does that make me smarter than Newton?
"This most beautiful system [The Universe] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being" - Isaac Newton

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/isaac_newton/

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138295 Jun 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Put astronomy on your list of things you need to learn about.
"all wound up"?
Here you go:

http://creation.com/early-galaxies-don-t-fit

And it cost me a few IQ points finding that. I hope my brain will recover from the stupid.

Proceed with caution.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#138296 Jun 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Newton could not have believed in IDiocy. IDiocy was not invented until after creatards lost the court battles on teaching creationism in school. IDiocy is merely creatardism in sheep's clothing.
It is not even a "real" belief. You won't even define it. It can't be much more obvious that it is a false belief when the people that supposedly believe in it won't even say what it is.
Once again, idiot, knowing things that Newton did not know does not make us smarter than Newton. I know of the equivalency between energy and matter. Newton had no clue about that. He would have laughed at our claims. He would have been extremely wrong. That was very dramatically shown in two cities and numerous tests since then.
So, since I know of the mass energy equivalency and Newton didn't, does that make me smarter than Newton?
Those in the future will laugh hysterically at your claims that man evolved from a worm.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#138297 Jun 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Unsupported assertions. Show just once where I have denied the Bible or God's word (Jesus).
I am the member of no cult. I belong to a nice little church (well, it used to be little, we keep adding on). My daughter was married in that church where she met her husband. Our pastor was a beacon of light till the higher ups wanted him for themselves so now he does ministerial training. Now we got some bozo minister and I have not gone in year because of him. He could almost pass for a fundy. Very sad.
I don't know what you believe. Probably some new age feel good version of Jesus based on your own selfish desires. Certainly not Bible based. You just indicated that you hate "fundies" which of course means somebody who accepts the Bible as the word of God. So that is a rejection of God and His Word. You see how foolish you are Dogen? You just challenged me to show just once where you reject God and then you go ahead and demonstrate in your own words in the very same comment!
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#138298 Jun 23, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Put astronomy on your list of things you need to learn about.
"all wound up"?
You haven't the first clue what I'm talking about do you Dogen? Basic astronomy. Spiral Arms. You mean to tell me you've never heard of spiral galaxies? WOW.
One way or another

United States

#138299 Jun 23, 2013
Did you know the huge players in the stock market were manipulating most all the rest of the investors?

That you don't know is a pity. Ask yourselves, how many times have I won and lost, since the crash? Its happening more and more to come and the market will have its excuses all ready. From here on the market is not just a gamble, its a sure loser in the long run. Yes, sometimes you'll win, but the house always gets it back over time.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138300 Jun 23, 2013
wedgehead wrote:
<quoted text>
"This most beautiful system [The Universe] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being" - Isaac Newton
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/isaac_newton/
So what?

That only showed that Newton believed in a god of some sort. That does not mean that he was an IDiot. In fact it would be impossible for him to be an IDiot since IDiocy did not exist at that time.

Creatards are always using the logical fallacy of equating belief in god with a disbelief in evolution. The theory of evolution says nothing about the existence of god.

What is worse, it is constantly pointed out that the theory of gravity is just as "atheistic" as the theory of evolution. A fact that hypocritical people like HST deny all of the time.

The problem for them is that evolution debunks their personal view of what god is, and they cannot stand to be wrong in that sense.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138301 Jun 23, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't the first clue what I'm talking about do you Dogen? Basic astronomy. Spiral Arms. You mean to tell me you've never heard of spiral galaxies? WOW.
I found the stupid article for him.

You do realize that claim was busted long ago, don't you?

Spiral arms do not "wind up" as the galaxy ages. The spiral arms that we observe are a stable feature of galaxies.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#138302 Jun 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a stupid claim of Kent Hovind and other creatards. Some Christian "physicist" somewhere made a claim that spiral galaxies are unstable. They glommed onto that claim as if it were a lifesaver and they had just fallen off of the Titanic.
Of course computer simulations have shown that spirals are stable forms for the universe to be in.
It's basic stuff you idiot.

"The pioneer of studies of the rotation of the Galaxy and the formation of the spiral arms was Bertil Lindblad in 1925. He realized that the idea of stars arranged permanently in a spiral shape was untenable. Since the angular speed of rotation of the galactic disk varies with distance from the centre of the galaxy (via a standard solar system type of gravitational model), a radial arm (like a spoke) would quickly become curved as the galaxy rotates. The arm would, after a few galactic rotations, become increasingly curved and wind around the galaxy ever tighter. This is called the winding problem. Measurements in the late 1960s showed that the orbital velocity of stars in spiral galaxies with respect to their distance from the galactic center is indeed higher than expected from Newtonian dynamics but still cannot explain the stability of the spiral structure."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_galaxy

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#138303 Jun 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Those in the future will laugh hysterically at your claims that man evolved from a worm.
If so why do you feel the need to lie about my belief?

See, a person telling what they really believed in would not have to lie to make their point.

Creatards sure do seem to take a strange solace in lying.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#138304 Jun 23, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that just looks like a few pixels, not much more.
It doesn't matter what YOU think. The scientists who actually understand what is going on and have seen all the evidence...what THEY think is much more important. Just like if I wanted to know what someone thought about weather, I'm much more likely to ask a meteorologist than a carpenter. Which is exactly why you should stop reading the religious bullshit creationist nonsense you read that attempts to debunk science and start reading...you know...ACTUAL LEGITIMATE SCIENCE.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
But isn't it true no matter how far you look, you see fully formed galaxies, not at all what you'd expect from any big bang theory.
No, that isn't true. So, it appears you've failed once again.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
It's as if they were all created and fine tuned.
No, it isn't, as your premise is bullshit.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
There is also the horizon problem. According to the CMB, the temperature of 2.7 K is extremely uniform in all directions. So the Big Bang has a big problem. A travel-light problem. There has not been near enough time for light to have been exchanged from one extreme side to the other, i.e., from hot to cold.
Yes, because you're an expert on cosmology and astronomy and astrophysics, and a much bigger expert on the subjects than ACTUAL COSMOLOGISTS AND ASTRONOMERS AND ASTROPHYSICISTS. Think you've got a real legitimate point? Do the research, do the experiments, and win your Nobel Prize. Until you do, you're no better than Jimbo over there, ranting about how Earth's rotation causes Earth's gravity.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Secular scientists explain this with their Inflation Model but this just creates more questions than answers. What made it start? What made it stop?
Again, the opinion of an ignoramus is in no way compelling among those versed in the subjects.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Another issue is spiral galaxies. We see lots of them billions of light years away but according to the laws of physics should be all wound up after just a few hundred million years but they're not. They all appear just as young no matter how far you look.
Ibid.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
All secular scientists can do is make up unobserved just-so stories to explain it such as spiral density waves that are supposed to create new spiral arms but of course this has never been observed either so is pure conjecture.
Ibid.

By the way, isn't it fascinating that only FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS are competent at science? Isn't it just the weirdest coincidence? Nobody in the world except FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS can manage to do science properly. I wonder what the cause of this phenomenon is. Oh, right...God.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#138305 Jun 23, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's basic stuff you idiot.
"The pioneer of studies of the rotation of the Galaxy and the formation of the spiral arms was Bertil Lindblad in 1925. He realized that the idea of stars arranged permanently in a spiral shape was untenable. Since the angular speed of rotation of the galactic disk varies with distance from the centre of the galaxy (via a standard solar system type of gravitational model), a radial arm (like a spoke) would quickly become curved as the galaxy rotates. The arm would, after a few galactic rotations, become increasingly curved and wind around the galaxy ever tighter. This is called the winding problem. Measurements in the late 1960s showed that the orbital velocity of stars in spiral galaxies with respect to their distance from the galactic center is indeed higher than expected from Newtonian dynamics but still cannot explain the stability of the spiral structure."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_galaxy
This does not mean what you think it means.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#138306 Jun 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Newton believed in intelligent design.
You tried to discredit him by pointing to his belief in alchemy.
Translation...you think that you are smarter than Newton, ie, Newton was a moron.
About chemistry, sure. Most of us ARE smarter than Newton about chemistry. That's because we've learned more about the universe since his day. And, we've also learned more about physics since his day, so we know more about physics today than he ever did. Just because we know more about something than someone else did doesn't mean that person was a moron, nor does anybody here make that argument (except you, for us, which is very dishonest). But, Newton WAS a moron regarding alchemy. And, you're a moron regarding evolutionary theory. That doesn't mean you're entirely a moron, but you ARE most certainly a moron regarding that particular subject.

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