Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179619 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#128917 May 1, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try SZ
It pains you that Biblical prophesy is 100% accurate
And the prophecy that the messiah would be named Immanuel? Yeah, that didn't turn out too well, did it? Unless you spell Immanuel "Y-E-S-H-U-A." But, why let little details like someone's name get in the way, right? Just ignore the stuff that's obviously wrong.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#128918 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you mean atheists have no reason to tell the truth?
If you weren't religious, would you be raping, stealing, and killing?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#128919 May 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you weren't religious, would you be raping, stealing, and killing?
Yes, that is how religious people are. They are horrid trolls who would eat their own children if their scary sky daddy didn't tell them not to.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128920 May 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you weren't religious, would you be raping, stealing, and killing?
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.

If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#128921 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
Thanks for the verification!!

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#128922 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.

If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
A couple of key concepts that you fail to acknowledge with regard to secular morality:

Social Responsibility
Empathy for your fellow Human Beings
Decency

Besides, a Christian can go out and rape, murder, engage in child porn, and all sorts of other atrocities.....just as long as he asks Jesus for forgiveness before he dies, right?

That's the kind of ratioale you're employing.

Hypocrite.

“Seventh son”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#128923 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
There's no such thing as absolute morality, there is a such a thing as a moral consensus. This is the thing that taught us humans despite race religion or whatever what have yous.
There are lines of behavior we can all agree on.

Well maybe it's not you to agree with the human race.:)

http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2010/0...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Indianapolis, IN

#128924 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't be such a sore loser; think of it as a learning experience. And I also want to thank you for helping build up my faith even further!
As I should thank you - and you fundie friends - for helping to build my aversion to fundamentalist wackos.
Mugwump

Rochdale, UK

#128925 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
Apart from the obvious strawman about 'randomly evolved', lets concentrate on a few points.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away.
'Morality' comes from many influences, upbringing , society , peer pressure , law etc.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc.
.
On the last point, you really want to go there ? The Catholic Church has constantly attempted to cover up instances of child abuse - seems your 'absolute morality isn't all that absolute after all
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not
.
Because most people (not all) find this wrong - seems to work

But on the subject of murder - obviously have to point out Muslim fundementalists

and for balance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terror...

So your religion promotes morality argument seems quite weak, but since this is a science forum , if you want to provide any particular statistics to support your stance rather than retoric ?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#128926 May 1, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Apart from the obvious strawman about 'randomly evolved', lets concentrate on a few points.
<quoted text>
'Morality' comes from many influences, upbringing , society , peer pressure , law etc.
<quoted text>
On the last point, you really want to go there ? The Catholic Church has constantly attempted to cover up instances of child abuse - seems your 'absolute morality isn't all that absolute after all
<quoted text>
Because most people (not all) find this wrong - seems to work
But on the subject of murder - obviously have to point out Muslim fundementalists
and for balance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terror...
So your religion promotes morality argument seems quite weak, but since this is a science forum , if you want to provide any particular statistics to support your stance rather than retoric ?
The Christian idea of "morality" slays me some times like on topics such as;

"Death with Dignity" .... the "Ethic of Reciprocity" would lead me to keep a terminally ill person as comfortable as possible by whatever means possible (using drugs that might cause termination) until they asked to die. Then I would feel obliged to help them pass as peacefully and painlessly as possible.

But a Christian .... "Killing is WRONG" so even if the person is screaming in pain begging for relief, no "dangerous medications" should be given!.... "LOVELY"!!! NOT!!

"Abortion" .... the "Ethic of Reciprocity" would lead me to encourage abstinence or at least birth control to avoid having to make such a decision. But if a woman pleads to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, such assistance should be provided, it is her body.

But a Christian .... "Killing is WRONG" so even if the pregnancy would kill both mother and child, abortion should be avoided, in fact most birth control is discouraged. If either or both mother and child survive, then no matter the condition of either, they are kicked to the curb and told to "get a job"..... "LOVELY"!!! NOT!!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#128927 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you mean atheists have no reason to tell the truth?
No, of course not. Only creatards like you have a motive to lie.

In general lies eventually get back to the liar and hurt him. Creatards have nothing if they can't lie. You lost the Tyre debate so you continually lie. You lost the evolution debate so you continually lie.

Atheists, as a whole, are very honest. There are far fewer atheist criminals than Christian criminals. All up and down the population, atheists have better morals than Christians.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#128928 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
"After the destruction of Jerusalem, Nebuchadnezzar engaged in a thirteen-year siege of Tyre (585–572 BC) which ended in a compromise, with the Tyrians accepting Babylonian authority."
Obviously, this took place on the mainland as he had no navy and the Bible clearly describes a land battle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebuchadnezzar_I...
"In ancient times, the island city of Tyre was heavily fortified (with defensive walls 150 feet (46 m) high[10]) and the mainland settlement, originally called Ushu (later called Palaetyrus, meaning "Old Tyre," by the Greeks) was actually more like a line of suburbs than any one city and was used primarily as a source of water and timber for the main island city.[11] Josephus records that the two fought against each other on occasion,[12] although most of the time they supported one another because they both benefited from the island city's wealth from maritime trade and the mainland area's source of timber, water and burial grounds."
It was Ushu way before (1300s BC) before being renamed Old Tyre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon
Well, KAB disagrees, and says it was most definitely the island. You fundamentalist-types really should come to some sort of consensus about the ridiculous stories in your ancient book before trying to say they're true. One says it IS the island. One says it is NOT the island. Which of you are we to believe? You? Him? Why don't you go over to the Darwin crowd thread and tell him why his interpretation is wrong and yours isn't? Then, you and he can figure out which of you is right and which of you is wrong, and present a unified and sensible front, rather than the disjointed and contradictory arguments that you're presenting now. Wouldn't that be better?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#128929 May 1, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Urb, the Bible says you are wrong many times. What specifically do you want to know about.
And you have to be civilized first. Lying is not civil. Pretending you have not lost when every claim you make is debunked is not being civil.
The rudeness always starts with the creatards and then they complain about our rudeness.
Hypocrites.
That's a big fat lie

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#128930 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
So, just to be clear: you're saying that if you weren't religious, you would rape, steal, and murder.

Please, don't stop being religious. You're too dangerous a person to think for yourself.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#128931 May 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't do those things because God gave laid down absolute morality and I am a man made in the image of God and was given a conscience and so I want to obey God's laws.
If I were an atheist, and believed in strict materialism, there would be nothing from which to reference to and I could rationalize it away. For example, abortion, euthanasia, child pornography, etc. Men make laws but from what? If I were atheist, and there were no God and no natural laws forbidding it, why should I agree with them? I want to do what I want to do. Right? Or if I could get away with murder and nobody will find out, why not? After all we are all just a result of evolution, mere animals, that have just randomly evolved from the basic elements. How can we even trust our own thoughts? Afterall, we were not designed. We are just the result of chemical reactions. Right? We can change whatever flimsey rules some joker put up. Nobody to answer to really.
Also, to borrow (sloppily) a line from Ricky Gervais: I'm an atheist, and I already rape, steal, and murder all I want.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#128932 May 1, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
The Christian idea of "morality" slays me some times like on topics such as;
"Death with Dignity" .... the "Ethic of Reciprocity" would lead me to keep a terminally ill person as comfortable as possible by whatever means possible (using drugs that might cause termination) until they asked to die. Then I would feel obliged to help them pass as peacefully and painlessly as possible.
But a Christian .... "Killing is WRONG" so even if the person is screaming in pain begging for relief, no "dangerous medications" should be given!.... "LOVELY"!!! NOT!!
"Abortion" .... the "Ethic of Reciprocity" would lead me to encourage abstinence or at least birth control to avoid having to make such a decision. But if a woman pleads to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, such assistance should be provided, it is her body.
But a Christian .... "Killing is WRONG" so even if the pregnancy would kill both mother and child, abortion should be avoided, in fact most birth control is discouraged. If either or both mother and child survive, then no matter the condition of either, they are kicked to the curb and told to "get a job"..... "LOVELY"!!! NOT!!
Are you fer real?

Have you any idea how nonsensical your arguments are?

Palliative care is an integral part of medicine

No patients are screaming in pain and being denied analgesia

No where is it legislated that an abortion should be denied if the pregnancy is a direct threat to the mother's life

Medical abortions are fine in the case of fatal fetal malformations eg anencephaly

But abortion as a means of contraception is downright evil!

An inconvenient baby in-utero to be butchered is horrific

Please see Jonathan Sarfati's excellent arguments here

http://creation.com/antidote-to-abortion-argu...
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#128933 May 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, KAB disagrees, and says it was most definitely the island. You fundamentalist-types really should come to some sort of consensus about the ridiculous stories in your ancient book before trying to say they're true. One says it IS the island. One says it is NOT the island. Which of you are we to believe? You? Him? Why don't you go over to the Darwin crowd thread and tell him why his interpretation is wrong and yours isn't? Then, you and he can figure out which of you is right and which of you is wrong, and present a unified and sensible front, rather than the disjointed and contradictory arguments that you're presenting now. Wouldn't that be better?
Read Joshua 19:29

Its a land based city

Its referred to as Tyre

Its on the coast

I am certain that KAB will concede if shown the evidence
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#128934 May 1, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
As I should thank you - and you fundie friends - for helping to build my aversion to fundamentalist wackos.
What's a fundamentalist wacko?

If you mean someone that will not compromise on God's word, then I'm happy to be one

Compromisers, like Dogem, are utterly confused and have no idea what they're talking about

People, like Dawkins, have a field day with compomisers, as he KNOWS that compromisers do not have a theological leg to stand on and that they are "deluded"

"Deluded" was the exact word used by Dawkins to describe theistic evolutionists and their ilk
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#128935 May 1, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, of course not. Only creatards like you have a motive to lie.
In general lies eventually get back to the liar and hurt him. Creatards have nothing if they can't lie. You lost the Tyre debate so you continually lie. You lost the evolution debate so you continually lie.
Atheists, as a whole, are very honest. There are far fewer atheist criminals than Christian criminals. All up and down the population, atheists have better morals than Christians.
Another big fat lie

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#128936 May 1, 2013
Russell wrote:
Are you fer real?
Have you any idea how nonsensical your arguments are?
Palliative care is an integral part of medicine
No patients are screaming in pain and being denied analgesia
Oh great! Get them an asprin!! Now that's a fine solution. I hope you go to Christian hospitals for your critical care.
Russell wrote:
No where is it legislated that an abortion should be denied if the pregnancy is a direct threat to the mother's life
Medical abortions are fine in the case of fatal fetal malformations eg anencephaly
But abortion as a means of contraception is downright evil!
An inconvenient baby in-utero to be butchered is horrific
Please see Jonathan Sarfati's excellent arguments here
http://creation.com/antidote-to-abortion-argu...
But they both still need to get a job, right??

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