Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179706 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#128047 Apr 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your a 53 yr old mental health therapist!
Wow. I am a 52 year old mental health therapist!
Who would a thunk it. Only a year apart.
I have my doubts. It seems much more likely that, hmm... let me put it tactfully. He seems more to be a consumer than a vendor.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128048 Apr 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are confusing terms. DNA has a binary structure but has 4 terms (quaternary); specifically adenosine, cytosine, guanine and thymine.
So (ironically) a single strand of DNA is quaternary but a double strand is a binary (actually a binary quaternary).
Clear? Or is that over your creationist head?
I am assuming you CAN understand this stuff if you want to; you just don't want to.
That's just wrong in so many ways. It would be much safer and better if you would just stick to copying and pasting other people's comments.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128049 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not interested in understanding the Bible; only in trying to refute it. And so failing miserably at both.

I tried to keep this as simple as possible. What happened at Tyre is known to history and archeology. It is simply at true or false matter.

The account given by Ezekiel regarding Tyre is simply wrong. It has been known to be wrong even back in Jesus' time. Jesus and Paul both visited the city at Ezekiel said would never be found. It was thriving in both of their lifetimes.

I understand the bible to be a book about God and Gods people. I do not have the protestant (post 1550), fundamentalist (post 1850) view that the bible is perfect, that translations are perfect, or that stuff has not happened to it over the years. My view of the bible is grounded in reality, not in magic. It is a great book with thousands of instructive stories, some true, some not, some in the middle. Errors in text do not effect the substance of the teaching and that is what is most important.

So, I understand it a lot better than you or your post modern, fundy, minions who MUST have an absolute and that absolute MUST NOT be the Catholic Church. That is what the literal and inerrant beliefs about the bible are about. That is where they come from. Didn't you know that?
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128050 Apr 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your a 53 yr old mental health therapist!
Wow. I am a 52 year old mental health therapist!
Who would a thunk it. Only a year apart.
Don't yo really mean to say you're a 52 year old mental health patient playing a mental health therapist?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128051 Apr 25, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's your answer, mate
Scarcely worth my getting filthy and sweaty over......
AND I wasted days waiting for you in the arena....
NEVER AGAIN--------Sideline Joe
MikeF wrote--->
1) A quaternary numeral system is not better than a binary numeral system any more than either is better than octal or hexadecimal. All can be used to express values and are interchangeable in positional numeral systems.
2) The names of the nucleotides - guanine, adenine, thymine, and cytosine - are symbolic descriptors. For example, guanine comes from the Spanish guano but the name is simply a reference to its discovery. It does not mean guanine is actual bird shit.
3) Like the full names of the nucleotides, they are often represented by the shortened symbols G, A, T, and C. Simply being symbolic, other representations could be substituted including numerals, special characters or even hieroglyphs.
4) Unlike numerals, G, A, T, and C are *not* used to represent values. Even if they are converted to numbers and gave the appearance of value, they still would not represent values.
5) Computer codes - more properly computer instruction sets -*do* represent values as a value will point to the address of simple or micro-coded routines.
Therefore, since the nucleotides do not represent values and they do not perform routine lookups and cannot be considered to be computer codes.
----------
Please see my refutation of MikeF's post here--->
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TCT...
Post # 127776

I am confused. It looks like Mike won this exchange. Why are you referencing a loss?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128052 Apr 25, 2013
Russell wrote:
----------
Please see my refutation of MikeF's post here--->
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TCT...
Post # 127776
You call that a refutation? The only thing that reference does is discuss the relative storage efficiencies of various numeral systems. Applying it to DNA still does *not* make DNA a computer code.

Pretty funny that you think it does. But then, you're a gullible as they come.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#128053 Apr 25, 2013
Evolution's variation and natural selection have been applied to many engineering problems. One example is wing design. Aerodynamics is more of an art than a science in many aspects. The process that drive evolution have been applied to the field more than once. Here is just one article that describes how:

http://aero.stanford.edu/reports/VKI_Evolutio...

The point of this is that natural selection and variation were in effect even during abiogenesis, so it is no surprise that an extremely efficient method of passing on "information" was found.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128054 Apr 25, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
I may be a jackass too
Perhaps a much bigger one
I don't think you're going to get any arguments on that point.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128055 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the symbols are arbitrary. What does that matter? You mean if science labeled the DNA nucleotides 0,1,2,3 instead of A,C,G,T that would make the comparison true? I don't see how that's an argument.

No, he is saying the opposite of that.

Didn't you read the post before you replied?

Mike wrote: "However, the assignment of 0, 1, 2 and 3 (which are values) to A, C, G and T (which are not) is entirely arbitrary."

Note his last 3 words.... IS ENTIRELY ARBITRARY.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128056 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's not! And don't claim no echolocation yet because this one had it. So it has everything a modern bat has: flight, echolocation, etc. The fossil's discoverer originlly claimed it didn't have it but a later Nature article refuted that.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n72...

My references were more recent.

But echolocation is a red herring. What matters is that it was a more "primitive" version of modern bats. There are no early bats flying around today and there are no modern bats that far back in the fossil record.

That, my friend, is called 'evolution'.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128057 Apr 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
My references were more recent.
But echolocation is a red herring. What matters is that it was a more "primitive" version of modern bats. There are no early bats flying around today and there are no modern bats that far back in the fossil record.
That, my friend, is called 'evolution'.
But you still don't have any evidence of this anywhere. The earliest known bats are essentially modern bats. There was no evolution. There may be some genetic variation but they are all still bats. Are you crazy by any chance? Sorry, but how can you not see this?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128058 Apr 25, 2013
Russell wrote:
Oh
And BTW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =BYbaXhY_7mQXX
David Down, Biblical archaeologist, talks about Phoenicia
In particular, kindly note......if you have the heart to do so.....
Two components to the cities of Tyre and Sidon
Shabakhair
"And today, the modern city of Tyre is built not only on the island but on the causeway." - David Down.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128059 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the symbols are arbitrary. What does that matter? You mean if science labeled the DNA nucleotides 0,1,2,3 instead of A,C,G,T that would make the comparison true? I don't see how that's an argument.
I'm sure you don't since you've completely misunderstood what I said.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128060 Apr 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have my doubts. It seems much more likely that, hmm... let me put it tactfully. He seems more to be a consumer than a vendor.

Somehow reminds me of a scene from 'The Couch Trip' where the psychiatrist is in a seclusion room in a straight jacket and it trying to convince the psychiatrist at that facility that he is not crazy and is actually a psychiatrist himself.

"I hear you. I hear you saying you're a psychiatrist.[In extra soothing tone] I really hear you!"
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128061 Apr 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Evolution's variation and natural selection have been applied to many engineering problems. One example is wing design. Aerodynamics is more of an art than a science in many aspects. The process that drive evolution have been applied to the field more than once. Here is just one article that describes how:
http://aero.stanford.edu/reports/VKI_Evolutio...
The point of this is that natural selection and variation were in effect even during abiogenesis, so it is no surprise that an extremely efficient method of passing on "information" was found.
Which means evolution is completely irrelevant in this case. Engineering would not be interested in flightless feathers; they are only interested in fully developed, flight-capable feathers.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128062 Apr 25, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I am confused. It looks like Mike won this exchange. Why are you referencing a loss?
Black Knight Syndrome.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128063 Apr 25, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Evolution's variation and natural selection have been applied to many engineering problems. One example is wing design. Aerodynamics is more of an art than a science in many aspects. The process that drive evolution have been applied to the field more than once. Here is just one article that describes how:
http://aero.stanford.edu/reports/VKI_Evolutio...
The point of this is that natural selection and variation were in effect even during abiogenesis, so it is no surprise that an extremely efficient method of passing on "information" was found.
Agreed.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#128064 Apr 25, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure you don't since you've completely misunderstood what I said.
I understand you have no point.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#128065 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't yo really mean to say you're a 52 year old mental health patient playing a mental health therapist?

Some of us play therapist.
Some of us play patient.
Some of us play Mr. Know-it-all on the internet.

"All the world's indeed a stage
And we are merely players:
Performers and portrayers,
Each another's audience
Outside the gilded cage."

Rush - Limelight Album: Moving Pictures (1981).

And congrats to Rush for (FINALLY) being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#128066 Apr 25, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand you have no point.
Which demonstrates exactly how little you do understand.

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