Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#127542
Apr 20, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't get around much, okay, at least just say you have never seen it instead of trying to say it's not possible until you actually know about it. I mean, I get the animosity to new ideas, considering what a huge embarrassment cold fusion was for the scientific community, but without new ideas like DDWFTTW you would not have a computer.
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".

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#127543
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".
Then perhaps I misread you somewhere, but all your animosity only makes me believe I did not.

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#127545
Apr 20, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Meh, every university and college has them. ;) As well as a lot of physics professors who love to talk about ... physics.
That's true. I don't have easy access to a university. And you still need to know how to make one correctly, though spork did post a series of very thorough build videos that tell you exactly how to make one and where you can get the parts, and by the way not from him. Time and money wise this was a labor of love for spork. I am pretty sure he was out of pocket on the deal, especially if you he considers his time to be of any value at all.

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#127546
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true. I don't have easy access to a university. And you still need to know how to make one correctly, though spork did post a series of very thorough build videos that tell you exactly how to make one and where you can get the parts, and by the way not from him. Time and money wise this was a labor of love for spork. I am pretty sure he was out of pocket on the deal, especially if you he considers his time to be of any value at all.
But KittenKoder has already built her own if you were to believe her pissy, lying whiny azz.

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#127547
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
But KittenKoder has already built her own if you were to believe her pissy, lying whiny azz.
The one thing I can say for them things is.....they easy on the gas. lol

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#127548
Apr 20, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The one thing I can say for them things is.....they easy on the gas. lol
Yes, but when you run it on the treadmill it is heavy on the electric bill.

It takes a fair wind if I remember to make the little cart or even for the large cart to work. Roughly 5 mph is needed for the cart ot go faster than the wind. If the wind blows too much slower than that the cart might move on a flat, it won't fly.

And if you want to see a series of movies where the prop movement and advancing on the treadmill is filmed very carefully with markers on the prop that allow it to be analyzed you can check out there by Windgrins:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4aGbZgX_lwQ...
LowellGuy

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#127549
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".
I thought you evotards agreed about everything to support your atheistic anti-Bible agenda. What the Hell?

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#127550
Apr 20, 2013
 
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you evotards agreed about everything to support your atheistic anti-Bible agenda. What the Hell?
It seems some people have difficulty adhering to a rigorous standard of evidence, and avoidance of logical fallacy, even if they are not believers of the Magic Sky Daddy, Junior and the Holey Spook.

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#127551
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but when you run it on the treadmill it is heavy on the electric bill.
It takes a fair wind if I remember to make the little cart or even for the large cart to work. Roughly 5 mph is needed for the cart ot go faster than the wind. If the wind blows too much slower than that the cart might move on a flat, it won't fly.
And if you want to see a series of movies where the prop movement and advancing on the treadmill is filmed very carefully with markers on the prop that allow it to be analyzed you can check out there by Windgrins:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4aGbZgX_lwQ...
It is easier to see (hence answer some of my prior questions) with this video. The aliasing is nicely dealt with by tape strips on the treadmill. However, the question of equivalency of a running treadmill verses being placed in downstream wind remains. I'd really like to have a copy of this prototype now. If nothing else, it has value as a conversation piece.

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#127552
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
It is easier to see (hence answer some of my prior questions) with this video. The aliasing is nicely dealt with by tape strips on the treadmill. However, the question of equivalency of a running treadmill verses being placed in downstream wind remains. I'd really like to have a copy of this prototype now. If nothing else, it has value as a conversation piece.
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.

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#127553
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.
Right, that is a trivial exercise, getting it up to wind speed, using wind is not exactly equivalent.

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#127554
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.
Why don't you start a DDWFTTW thread? It wouldn't be off topic there.

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#127555
Apr 20, 2013
 
Here is a simple series of questions, the answers to all of them are yes. The velocity that we can observe the treadmill running at is ten mph.

Can you observe the small cart work on the various treadmills that we can see?

Yes.

If we had a portable treadmill would it work the same?

Yes.

If we put the treadmill on the back of an enclosed truck would it work the same?

Yes.

If the truck was moving at a constant speed would it work the same?

Yes.

On this day the wind is blowing at exactly ten mph from the west. So if the truck was going at ten mph to the East (the same direction and speed the wind is going) could we take the walls off of the truck and have it still work the same?

Yes.

I hope you agree with all of the yeses, I just wanted to make this easier.

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#127556
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, that is a trivial exercise, getting it up to wind speed, using wind is not exactly equivalent.
Most people have a problem with the cart when it goes from just under the speed of the wind to just over the speed of the wind. The treadmill is excellent for that since it shows what the cart would do when it is running at exactly the speed of the wind.

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#127557
Apr 20, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you start a DDWFTTW thread? It wouldn't be off topic there.
I know this is off topic here. I got tired of getting nowhere with the creatards.

I don't think it would fit anywhere on the Evolution part of Topix anyway.

Find me a place and some followers and I have no problem shifting.

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#127558
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
Here is a simple series of questions, the answers to all of them are yes. The velocity that we can observe the treadmill running at is ten mph.
Can you observe the small cart work on the various treadmills that we can see?
Yes.
If we had a portable treadmill would it work the same?
Yes.
If we put the treadmill on the back of an enclosed truck would it work the same?
Yes.
If the truck was moving at a constant speed would it work the same?
Yes.
On this day the wind is blowing at exactly ten mph from the west. So if the truck was going at ten mph to the East (the same direction and speed the wind is going) could we take the walls off of the truck and have it still work the same?
Yes.
I hope you agree with all of the yeses, I just wanted to make this easier.
The truck, and the treadmill are all sources of energy and do nothing but complicate the situation. I just want a prototype to place in 10mph wind in the downwind direction. That doesn't seem much to ask, does it?

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#127559
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people have a problem with the cart when it goes from just under the speed of the wind to just over the speed of the wind. The treadmill is excellent for that since it shows what the cart would do when it is running at exactly the speed of the wind.
Right, but GETTTING it there, that I want to see, just using wind.

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#127560
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I know this is off topic here. I got tired of getting nowhere with the creatards.
I don't think it would fit anywhere on the Evolution part of Topix anyway.
Find me a place and some followers and I have no problem shifting.
Here, started one for you. Post it and they will come ..... in theory anyway....
DDWFTTW is it really possible?
http://www.topix.com/forum/energy/TVC7BFF232T...

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#127561
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I know this is off topic here. I got tired of getting nowhere with the creatards.
I don't think it would fit anywhere on the Evolution part of Topix anyway.
Find me a place and some followers and I have no problem shifting.
And you have heard of Tippy Tops ... right? http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#127562
Apr 20, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
Here is a simple series of questions, the answers to all of them are yes. The velocity that we can observe the treadmill running at is ten mph.
Can you observe the small cart work on the various treadmills that we can see?
Yes.
If we had a portable treadmill would it work the same?
Yes.
If we put the treadmill on the back of an enclosed truck would it work the same?
Yes.
If the truck was moving at a constant speed would it work the same?
Yes.
On this day the wind is blowing at exactly ten mph from the west. So if the truck was going at ten mph to the East (the same direction and speed the wind is going) could we take the walls off of the truck and have it still work the same?
Yes.
I hope you agree with all of the yeses, I just wanted to make this easier.
The question that hangs in my mind is...
How much energy is lost due to friction and wind resistance and gravity in a car? Now if we pushed a car with zero friction and wind resistance and gravity it would travel forever. Now how much energy do DDWFTTW cars gain back from using the two and countering the third forces that usually work against motion?
Using the angle of attack to accelerate wind across its sails lift to counter gravity and thrust from friction and wind resistance gains lost energy back. Of course this is a losing battle but gaining anything back from wasted energy spent in motion is a definite plus. I just wonder how much it equates to . hard to figure because I'm not sure if there are figures in what was lost.
But I'm guessing its around 10-20%.
50% 70%

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