Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180394 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127583 Apr 21, 2013
Identical twins have exactly same DNA sequence yet are very different looking and acting. Evolution can't explain that, but epigenetics can.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127584 Apr 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't. Do you know why?
I know why it does. Do you?
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127585 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> C-14 dating doesn't give an accurate reading on things older than 20,000 years , and if they are very old they will give a heightened reading because they have absorbed radiation from the CMB and cosmic rays.


So, rather than approach these data scientifically and consider that maybe there is something wrong with the theory, you ignore what the readings are consistently telling you for ideological reasons. Got it.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#127586 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, rather than approach these data scientifically and consider that maybe there is something wrong with the theory, you ignore what the readings are consistently telling you for ideological reasons. Got it.
Actually the evidence is weighed and measured, and since nothing is perfect you allow for false readings in any test.
There exist conditions that will throw any diagnosis off , becoming aware of them is wisdom beyond knowledge.

Try this test, a cylinder in a auto engine is galled and has very little compression. It misfires causing the engine to run rough.
The obvious test for this is to perform a compression on the cylinders to spot the cause.

But an unknown factor exists , which is the intake gasket is leaking a small amount of water.

When the compression test is performed the weak cylinder is not spotted because the water is leaking into the galled cylinder and filling the gap , and causing a false reading during the test.
With the engine running the water turns to steam before filling the gap causing the compression failure.

This was just a little real world scenario to point out there are conditions of false readings (in any discipline) one must eventually becomes aware of.

Basically at this point , you grasp for straws at every opportunity. And deny using any possible error or miscalculation that exists, some of them are almost comical.
That points out that clearly someone hid evolution under your work boots, and since you will never use those work boots, you will never find evolution. The funny part is that......
YOU hid it under your boots!
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127587 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
Actually the evidence is weighed and measured, and since nothing is perfect you allow for false readings in any test.
Yes but if they ALL give the same "false" readings so consistently, at some point you must ask yourself what is going on. Could my assumptions about an old earth be wrong? We know precisely the decay rate of C14 and accept the readings for what they are so why not accept ALL of them for what they are? There should be no detectable amounts after 100,000 years so as a YEC, I would predict this and expect this to be the case. You, on the other hand, have to make up a just-so story to account for the accurate readings that don't fit your theory. Instead, you should re-evaluate your theory and accept the scientific data.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127588 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
Try this test, a cylinder in a auto engine is galled and has very little compression. It misfires causing the engine to run rough.
The obvious test for this is to perform a compression on the cylinders to spot the cause.
But an unknown factor exists , which is the intake gasket is leaking a small amount of water.
When the compression test is performed the weak cylinder is not spotted because the water is leaking into the galled cylinder and filling the gap , and causing a false reading during the test.
With the engine running the water turns to steam before filling the gap causing the compression failure.
This was just a little real world scenario to point out there are conditions of false readings (in any discipline) one must eventually becomes aware of.
Do ALL engines have leaking intake gaskets?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#127589 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes but if they ALL give the same "false" readings so consistently, at some point you must ask yourself what is going on. Could my assumptions about an old earth be wrong? We know precisely the decay rate of C14 and accept the readings for what they are so why not accept ALL of them for what they are? There should be no detectable amounts after 100,000 years so as a YEC, I would predict this and expect this to be the case. You, on the other hand, have to make up a just-so story to account for the accurate readings that don't fit your theory. Instead, you should re-evaluate your theory and accept the scientific data.

All C-14 tests do not give false readings, in fact it works very good on things less than the limitations of that method.
It will yield like any test a margin of error.
With diamonds the problem is an alternate source of C14 production , and this has been demonstrated to happen from a nitrogen contaminate and radiation.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#127590 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Do ALL engines have leaking intake gaskets?
No and all C-14 tests do not give false readings either.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127591 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
"Sodomy (/&#712;s&#594;d&# 601;mi/) is any non-penile/vaginal copulation-like act, such as oral or anal sex, or sex between a person and an animal.[1] The word is derived from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in chapters 18 and 19 of the Book of Genesis in the Bible.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

Clearly you did not actually read the entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy#Hebrew_Bi...

"In the Hebrew Bible, Sodom was a city destroyed by God because of the evil of its inhabitants. No specific sin is given as the reason for God's great wrath. "

"s. Some say the sinfulness of that, for the original writers of the Biblical account, might have consisted mainly in the violation of the obligations of hospitality. This view does not take into account that before the "guests" arrived in the city Genesis 18:v17 and any "hospitality" could have been rendered, its destruction was already planned. "

"This happens in Deuteronomy 29, Isaiah 1, 3, and 13, Jeremiah 49 and 50, Lamentations 4, Amos 4.11, and Zephaniah 2.9. Deuteronomy 32, Jeremiah 23.14 and Lamentations 4 reference the sinfulness of Sodom but do not specify any particular sin. Specific sins which Sodom is linked to include adultery and lying (Jeremiah 23:14), impenitence (Matthew 11:23, careless living (Luke 17:28), fornication (Jude 1:7 KJV), and an overall "filthy" lifestyle (2 Peter 2:7), which word ("aselgeiais") elsewhere is rendered in the KJV as lasciviousness (Mark 7:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Ephesians 4:19; 1 Peter 4:3; Jude 1:4, or wantonness:(Romans 13:13; 2 Peter 2:18)."

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me.(Ezekiel 16.4950 NASB)"

"There is no explicit mention of any sexual sin in Ezekiel's summation, and "abomination" is used to describe many sins."

and finally.

" but the word corresponding to "sodomite" in the Hebrew original, Qadesh (Hebrew:&#1511;&#1491; &#1513;) does not refer to Sodom, and has been translated in the New International Version as "shrine prostitute"; male shrine prostitutes may have served barren women in fertility rites rather than engaging in homosexual acts; this also applies to other instances of the word sodomite in the King James Version.["

“Evil Atheist :-)”

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#127592 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
So...if the amount of C14 remaining in diamonds proves that the Earth could not be much older than 100,000 years or so (and evolution impossible), and giving every opportunity for the evotards to respond...
There is a thousand times more C14 in the atmosphere than in a 60,000 year old sample. This means that decontaminating the measuring equipment is almost impossible. Hence the low readings of C14.

The nitrogen gas trapped in many diamonds can also be turned into C14 if they are near a radioactive source.

Hence there is no mystery, just straw grasping by creationists.
LowellGuy

Brooklyn, NY

#127593 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Identical twins have exactly same DNA sequence yet are very different looking and acting. Evolution can't explain that, but epigenetics can.
They were called identical long before DNA was discovered, which kind of destroys the premise that they look "very different."
LowellGuy

Brooklyn, NY

#127594 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Identical twins have exactly same DNA sequence yet are very different looking and acting. Evolution can't explain that, but epigenetics can.
Also, identical twins tend to have similar personalities and reactions to the same stimuli. Try saying something not completely wrong.
LowellGuy

Brooklyn, NY

#127595 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes but if they ALL give the same "false" readings so consistently, at some point you must ask yourself what is going on. Could my assumptions about an old earth be wrong? We know precisely the decay rate of C14 and accept the readings for what they are so why not accept ALL of them for what they are? There should be no detectable amounts after 100,000 years so as a YEC, I would predict this and expect this to be the case. You, on the other hand, have to make up a just-so story to account for the accurate readings that don't fit your theory. Instead, you should re-evaluate your theory and accept the scientific data.
Diamonds don't all give the same C14 tert results. Your favorite abstract even says so.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127596 Apr 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Diamonds don't all give the same C14 tert results. Your favorite abstract even says so.
All you need is a trace amount and that precludes anything older than 100,000 years.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127597 Apr 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, identical twins tend to have similar personalities and reactions to the same stimuli. Try saying something not completely wrong.
Totally wrong. Similar how? They're both human? They're completely different people.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127598 Apr 21, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
They were called identical long before DNA was discovered, which kind of destroys the premise that they look "very different."
Having an off day LG? Do you think maybe, just maybe, it might be because they were born at the same time? No....
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127599 Apr 21, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a thousand times more C14 in the atmosphere than in a 60,000 year old sample. This means that decontaminating the measuring equipment is almost impossible. Hence the low readings of C14.
The nitrogen gas trapped in many diamonds can also be turned into C14 if they are near a radioactive source.
Hence there is no mystery, just straw grasping by creationists.
So all the other radiometric readings are also wrong. Got it.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Miami, FL

#127600 Apr 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
All C-14 tests do not give false readings, in fact it works very good on things less than the limitations of that method.
It will yield like any test a margin of error.
With diamonds the problem is an alternate source of C14 production , and this has been demonstrated to happen from a nitrogen contaminate and radiation.
You mean it works very good as long as it doesn't go against evolution. Right?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127601 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Having an off day LG? Do you think maybe, just maybe, it might be because they were born at the same time? No....
LOL, Urban has conflated identical twins with fraternal twins.

He is trying for HST's nickname, "How Stupid is That?"

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127602 Apr 21, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
All you need is a trace amount and that precludes anything older than 100,000 years.
Nope, still wrong.

Like I said, do you want the answer or do you want to keep looking like an idiot?

Oh wait, this is Urb I am talking to. Of course you want to keep looking like an idiot.

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