Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178661 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127538 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I've known about it for less than 48 hours and I doubt very much you have done it at all ever, lying pissy little whiner.
So you don't get around much, okay, at least just say you have never seen it instead of trying to say it's not possible until you actually know about it. I mean, I get the animosity to new ideas, considering what a huge embarrassment cold fusion was for the scientific community, but without new ideas like DDWFTTW you would not have a computer.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127539 Apr 20, 2013
The question is what sort of evidence do you want?

I not only supplied videos, which admittedly can be faked. I gave links to the certification by NALSA that they had accomplished this. I supplied a link to a paper by Mark Drela that showed this was possible complete with equations.

What more do you need?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127540 Apr 20, 2013
I do not think this is a "simple little experiment".

It is very easy to make a nonworking cart. If you do not know the right gearing, and advance rates for the propeller odds are your vehicle will not work right. I have seen at least one person try to "disprove" that the cart works by making non-working carts. The person in question went ahead even after being told that he was making his cart incorrectly. When it didn't work he thought he had actually proved something.

Second you need access to a treadmill. Not every house has a home treadmill. Mine doesn't.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127541 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
I do not think this is a "simple little experiment".
It is very easy to make a nonworking cart. If you do not know the right gearing, and advance rates for the propeller odds are your vehicle will not work right. I have seen at least one person try to "disprove" that the cart works by making non-working carts. The person in question went ahead even after being told that he was making his cart incorrectly. When it didn't work he thought he had actually proved something.
Second you need access to a treadmill. Not every house has a home treadmill. Mine doesn't.
Meh, every university and college has them. ;) As well as a lot of physics professors who love to talk about ... physics.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127542 Apr 20, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't get around much, okay, at least just say you have never seen it instead of trying to say it's not possible until you actually know about it. I mean, I get the animosity to new ideas, considering what a huge embarrassment cold fusion was for the scientific community, but without new ideas like DDWFTTW you would not have a computer.
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127543 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".
Then perhaps I misread you somewhere, but all your animosity only makes me believe I did not.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127545 Apr 20, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Meh, every university and college has them. ;) As well as a lot of physics professors who love to talk about ... physics.
That's true. I don't have easy access to a university. And you still need to know how to make one correctly, though spork did post a series of very thorough build videos that tell you exactly how to make one and where you can get the parts, and by the way not from him. Time and money wise this was a labor of love for spork. I am pretty sure he was out of pocket on the deal, especially if you he considers his time to be of any value at all.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127546 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true. I don't have easy access to a university. And you still need to know how to make one correctly, though spork did post a series of very thorough build videos that tell you exactly how to make one and where you can get the parts, and by the way not from him. Time and money wise this was a labor of love for spork. I am pretty sure he was out of pocket on the deal, especially if you he considers his time to be of any value at all.
But KittenKoder has already built her own if you were to believe her pissy, lying whiny azz.

“Rising”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#127547 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
But KittenKoder has already built her own if you were to believe her pissy, lying whiny azz.
The one thing I can say for them things is.....they easy on the gas. lol

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127548 Apr 20, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The one thing I can say for them things is.....they easy on the gas. lol
Yes, but when you run it on the treadmill it is heavy on the electric bill.

It takes a fair wind if I remember to make the little cart or even for the large cart to work. Roughly 5 mph is needed for the cart ot go faster than the wind. If the wind blows too much slower than that the cart might move on a flat, it won't fly.

And if you want to see a series of movies where the prop movement and advancing on the treadmill is filmed very carefully with markers on the prop that allow it to be analyzed you can check out there by Windgrins:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4aGbZgX_lwQ...
LowellGuy

United States

#127549 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where I said it wasn't possible, lying little whiner. Also, please show what DDWFTTW has to do with computing technology. <dumbazz!> While you are at it, why don't you tell us all what propeller pitch and drive train ratio you used in your high school "simple basic DDWFTTW experiment".
I thought you evotards agreed about everything to support your atheistic anti-Bible agenda. What the Hell?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127550 Apr 20, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you evotards agreed about everything to support your atheistic anti-Bible agenda. What the Hell?
It seems some people have difficulty adhering to a rigorous standard of evidence, and avoidance of logical fallacy, even if they are not believers of the Magic Sky Daddy, Junior and the Holey Spook.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127551 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but when you run it on the treadmill it is heavy on the electric bill.
It takes a fair wind if I remember to make the little cart or even for the large cart to work. Roughly 5 mph is needed for the cart ot go faster than the wind. If the wind blows too much slower than that the cart might move on a flat, it won't fly.
And if you want to see a series of movies where the prop movement and advancing on the treadmill is filmed very carefully with markers on the prop that allow it to be analyzed you can check out there by Windgrins:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh4aGbZgX_lwQ...
It is easier to see (hence answer some of my prior questions) with this video. The aliasing is nicely dealt with by tape strips on the treadmill. However, the question of equivalency of a running treadmill verses being placed in downstream wind remains. I'd really like to have a copy of this prototype now. If nothing else, it has value as a conversation piece.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127552 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
It is easier to see (hence answer some of my prior questions) with this video. The aliasing is nicely dealt with by tape strips on the treadmill. However, the question of equivalency of a running treadmill verses being placed in downstream wind remains. I'd really like to have a copy of this prototype now. If nothing else, it has value as a conversation piece.
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127553 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.
Right, that is a trivial exercise, getting it up to wind speed, using wind is not exactly equivalent.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127554 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no question about the equivalence of the equivalence to running on the road at wind speed. As I said that is a simple Galilean transformation. In fact I can show it without math.
Why don't you start a DDWFTTW thread? It wouldn't be off topic there.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127555 Apr 20, 2013
Here is a simple series of questions, the answers to all of them are yes. The velocity that we can observe the treadmill running at is ten mph.

Can you observe the small cart work on the various treadmills that we can see?

Yes.

If we had a portable treadmill would it work the same?

Yes.

If we put the treadmill on the back of an enclosed truck would it work the same?

Yes.

If the truck was moving at a constant speed would it work the same?

Yes.

On this day the wind is blowing at exactly ten mph from the west. So if the truck was going at ten mph to the East (the same direction and speed the wind is going) could we take the walls off of the truck and have it still work the same?

Yes.

I hope you agree with all of the yeses, I just wanted to make this easier.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127556 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, that is a trivial exercise, getting it up to wind speed, using wind is not exactly equivalent.
Most people have a problem with the cart when it goes from just under the speed of the wind to just over the speed of the wind. The treadmill is excellent for that since it shows what the cart would do when it is running at exactly the speed of the wind.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127557 Apr 20, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you start a DDWFTTW thread? It wouldn't be off topic there.
I know this is off topic here. I got tired of getting nowhere with the creatards.

I don't think it would fit anywhere on the Evolution part of Topix anyway.

Find me a place and some followers and I have no problem shifting.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127558 Apr 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Here is a simple series of questions, the answers to all of them are yes. The velocity that we can observe the treadmill running at is ten mph.
Can you observe the small cart work on the various treadmills that we can see?
Yes.
If we had a portable treadmill would it work the same?
Yes.
If we put the treadmill on the back of an enclosed truck would it work the same?
Yes.
If the truck was moving at a constant speed would it work the same?
Yes.
On this day the wind is blowing at exactly ten mph from the west. So if the truck was going at ten mph to the East (the same direction and speed the wind is going) could we take the walls off of the truck and have it still work the same?
Yes.
I hope you agree with all of the yeses, I just wanted to make this easier.
The truck, and the treadmill are all sources of energy and do nothing but complicate the situation. I just want a prototype to place in 10mph wind in the downwind direction. That doesn't seem much to ask, does it?

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