Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 175,466

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#127488 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Oogah Boogah, as I said, I cried fraud with the first video that I saw.

The problem is that both of us thought the wind powers items by blowing on them. That is not really true. The energy from the wind comes from slowing the wind that is interacted with relative to another surface. In the case of the various carts, sail boats, wind turbines, etc. they slow down the speed of the wind they interact with relative to the ground. That change in kinetic energy of the wind relative to the ground is a huge source of potential energy.

When the cart is moving at the speed of the wind the air around it is still moving relative to the ground. So if the cart can slow down that wind relative to the ground it should be able to harvest that energy. In fact theoretically it does not matter how fast the cart is moving. It is not what is being slowed down relative to the ground. Even if it is moving at twice the speed of the wind the wind it travels through is moving relative to the ground. If it can slow down that air it should be able to harvest that energy.

If you look at the cart carefully enough that is exactly what it does. The thrust from the propeller slows down the wind relative to the ground, that adds more thrust to the vehicle and it goes faster. Eventually internal losses and wind resistance are high enough so that it balances and goes no faster.

I will be back. Have fun. I want to make your brain hurt! But in a good way.
It'll have to come out.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127489 Apr 19, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Sodom and Gomorrah is the first registered and documented case of homophobia that led to gay bashing and genocide
Clearly morality and human equality, didn't exist in the days of biblical homophobic geno/gendercide.

Ezekiel 16:49 - Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not [a]help the poor and needy.- NASB

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127490 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I am watching on a decent monitor, I am also aware of aliasing effects due to shutter speed. I also pay attention to which way the wheel starts to turn when placed on the belt, which is why I think the treadmill is running backwards, but again because of aliasing effects, that also may not be correct.
And again, just because you say so and you have a video, that is not enough. But it does make an interesting topic, which is off topic for this thread. Thanks for the heads up on the discussion, but I won't be discussing it further here.
Okay, I am glad you are aware of all of those effects. There are quite a few videos and there are treadmills that you can see are definitely running in the right direction. I know aliasing can fool people and it is something to be aware of.

Again, this is not just because I say so. If you don't trust me you should trust one of the premier aerodynamicists in the country who said it is possible. I did link a paper of his that gave all sorts of fun formulas. Mark is perhaps most famous for his work on the Gossamer Albatross. The human powered flying machine. He is a proper authority to refer to on a problem like this.

Again it is not over unity. The wind does lose much more energy than the cart picks up. There are no thermodynamic violations. And the applications are rather limited.

It is just a fun brain twister. If you like I am sure I could get you in touch with the maker of the cart. he loves to teach people how it works and he can do a much better job than I can.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127491 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
We did it in high school, did you even graduate?
I doubt if you did this particular project in high school. It has been independently discovered several times by people with a fair amount of aeronautical training, but it would be above just about any high school teachers that I know of.

Sorry to any high school science teachers. But the reason I say this was because I met a man who was going to school so that he could teach high school physics and he was not even learning proper physics. He had no idea how calculus worked, nor did he need to for his degree. You can't really understand physics without calculus, you can memorize formulas, but you cannot derive them. In other words you would not understand how force, energy, and power are all interconnected.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127492 Apr 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice post. He will keep babbling about what happened hundreds of years later. Epic fail.
Thank you.

And yes, the one thing I have learned never to expect from a creatard is honesty.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#127493 Apr 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
C14 alone refutes evolution.
Except that it doesn't. But, don't let things like reality get in the way.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127494 Apr 19, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that it doesn't. But, don't let things like reality get in the way.
UC prove one thing, and that is ...
that when you are a creotard, all evidence points to that fact.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#127495 Apr 19, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Been working on it with what spare time I may have. Are you trying to build a case that DNA is a computer code?
Glad you asked
Nope
Well yes
Its better than a binary code

Watch Rob Carter express his rather great views on this topic
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8905048/multidi...
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I picture more of a scrawny, little pip-squeek wetting his pants.
Listen Bud

My MOTHER wanted to try out for the Special Forces

She decided against it when she realised how much fitness she would lose

I can arm wrestle her any day

....and sometimes win....

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#127496 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad you asked
Nope
Well yes
Its better than a binary code
Watch Rob Carter express his rather great views on this topic
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8905048/multidi...
<quoted text>
Listen Bud
My MOTHER wanted to try out for the Special Forces
She decided against it when she realised how much fitness she would lose
I can arm wrestle her any day
....and sometimes win....
Are the shapes of snowflakes a code?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#127497 Apr 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
History records that he never penetrated the city walls and that the seize was ended by a truce and an agreement to pay tribute.
Dogem
For heavens sake
Look at my posts regarding this topic
They are long, detailed and cover every objection

Your post is two lines

No backing evidence

And you expect me to curl up in the fetal position and start whimpering

You're worse than highly educated MikeF

But at least he's asking me intelligent questions....from the sidelines

Or what he wants me to think are intelligent questions....
I know he's really only buying time

We'll see

But you, my friend...or not

You are not putting any heart into this

I know you hate JW's

But C'mon

At least make an effort with a fundie creationist

Give me your evidence

Don't make vacuous unsupported statements

Speaking of vacuous have you heard of Christine?

Her science was similar to your's
Sort of like reading Reader Digest

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127498 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
That seems uncharacteristically uncalled for.
You are saying that you never had the chance to do these very common, very basic, experiments ... yet almost all of them are done in high school. What about the one where you zap water with a high amperage current then extract the hydrogen from one tube and the oxygen from the other ..... in balloons ... and then light them? That's a fun one.

What about placing sulfur-dioxide in a tube that's filled with a small amount of water and capped off with a ball? Bring ear plugs.

What about wiring an old computer, we used Apple IIe computers because they were cheap, to a robotic arm and programming it to pick up things without breaking them?

What about the egg drop? Everyone's done the egg drop, that's an experiment, yes, it's an experiment in physics.

Dissecting things? We dissected lots of things, frogs, squids, birds ... even worms, that's a test of hand-eye coordination.

I mean, come on, or did you go to home "school?" Or maybe one of those lame backwoods schools that had textbooks from the 1920s?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127499 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt if you did this particular project in high school. It has been independently discovered several times by people with a fair amount of aeronautical training, but it would be above just about any high school teachers that I know of.
Sorry to any high school science teachers. But the reason I say this was because I met a man who was going to school so that he could teach high school physics and he was not even learning proper physics. He had no idea how calculus worked, nor did he need to for his degree. You can't really understand physics without calculus, you can memorize formulas, but you cannot derive them. In other words you would not understand how force, energy, and power are all interconnected.

I did not realize till years after H.S. what a great science teacher I had. He was a working professional scientist and really knew his stuff. I realize now that most H.S. science student were not as lucky as I was.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127500 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad you asked
Nope
Well yes
Its better than a binary code
Watch Rob Carter express his rather great views on this topic
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8905048/multidi...
<quoted text>
Listen Bud
My MOTHER wanted to try out for the Special Forces
She decided against it when she realised how much fitness she would lose
I can arm wrestle her any day
....and sometimes win....
Wow, you found a very misinformed and naive scientist, congratulations.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127501 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad you asked
Nope
Well yes
Its better than a binary code
Watch Rob Carter express his rather great views on this topic
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8905048/multidi...
<quoted text>
Listen Bud
My MOTHER wanted to try out for the Special Forces
She decided against it when she realised how much fitness she would lose
I can arm wrestle her any day
....and sometimes win....

Great view on the subject? Sounds like opinion to me. Science is not about random opinion.

Carter once published a paper with John Sanford and now works for some sort of ministry. Not exactly an 'A' List scientist.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127502 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogem
For heavens sake
Look at my posts regarding this topic
They are long, detailed and cover every objection
Your post is two lines
No backing evidence
And you expect me to curl up in the fetal position and start whimpering
You're worse than highly educated MikeF
But at least he's asking me intelligent questions....from the sidelines
Or what he wants me to think are intelligent questions....
I know he's really only buying time
We'll see
But you, my friend...or not
You are not putting any heart into this
I know you hate JW's
But C'mon
At least make an effort with a fundie creationist
Give me your evidence
Don't make vacuous unsupported statements
Speaking of vacuous have you heard of Christine?
Her science was similar to your's
Sort of like reading Reader Digest

I see you could not respond to the challenges in my post. Your inability to respond to the facts speaks volumes.

You have not read most of the information presented to you. Your thesis is busted. If I am wrong and you DID read what was posted to you then you already know your thesis is busted and you are a liar instead of being ignorant.

Either way you cannot get around what is written in the Bible. It is all there in black and white.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127503 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You are saying that you never had the chance to do these very common, very basic, experiments ... yet almost all of them are done in high school. What about the one where you zap water with a high amperage current then extract the hydrogen from one tube and the oxygen from the other ..... in balloons ... and then light them? That's a fun one.
What about placing sulfur-dioxide in a tube that's filled with a small amount of water and capped off with a ball? Bring ear plugs.
What about wiring an old computer, we used Apple IIe computers because they were cheap, to a robotic arm and programming it to pick up things without breaking them?
What about the egg drop? Everyone's done the egg drop, that's an experiment, yes, it's an experiment in physics.
Dissecting things? We dissected lots of things, frogs, squids, birds ... even worms, that's a test of hand-eye coordination.
I mean, come on, or did you go to home "school?" Or maybe one of those lame backwoods schools that had textbooks from the 1920s?
None of those were the topic at hand. The topic was DDWFTTW, and no I never did that one in High School and I don't know anyone that has.

Frankly, I am disappointed and disgusted with your sudden lack of couth. It would seem beneath you. Perhaps your idiot brother in law gained access to your account?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127504 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those were the topic at hand. The topic was DDWFTTW, and no I never did that one in High School and I don't know anyone that has.
Frankly, I am disappointed and disgusted with your sudden lack of couth. It would seem beneath you. Perhaps your idiot brother in law gained access to your account?
Erm, wow, okay.

Hi, I'm KittenKoder, if you don't like honesty, brutal honesty, serious honesty, with a splash of humor, then you won't like me.

Actually, you already knew that, but when I was not pointing out how ... well ... uneducated you are you didn't notice, or care, but when I decide to be honest about how you appear, now you suddenly care. That's the problem with "politeness" or "manners," they're subjective, now get over it, you uneducated nit.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127505 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Erm, wow, okay.
Hi, I'm KittenKoder, if you don't like honesty, brutal honesty, serious honesty, with a splash of humor, then you won't like me.
Actually, you already knew that, but when I was not pointing out how ... well ... uneducated you are you didn't notice, or care, but when I decide to be honest about how you appear, now you suddenly care. That's the problem with "politeness" or "manners," they're subjective, now get over it, you uneducated nit.
He is a brute, that knows everything, and when presented with something he isn't familiar with, he becomes a skeptic.
But it's okay to be the skeptic, but the brutish skeptic is barely tolerable. He is real nice when playing the arrogant brutish skeptical inconsiderate know it all. Especially when it's on a Friday :)

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127506 Apr 19, 2013
<<<<<<<As ks KK if I can borrow some ear muffs =/

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127507 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those were the topic at hand. The topic was DDWFTTW, and no I never did that one in High School and I don't know anyone that has.
Frankly, I am disappointed and disgusted with your sudden lack of couth. It would seem beneath you. Perhaps your idiot brother in law gained access to your account?
Hey!

I didn't want to start any fights by bringing up this brain teaser.

It does not break any laws of physics, it is NOT a new source of energy, it is simply an interesting application of existing aerodynamics.

I definitely do not think that it is worth fighting over. I am sorry if people are going to start fights when it comes to only a neat new idea.

I do know that I could introduce you to spork, the designer of the device. You are familiar with his work if you watch football. He is the man who paints the yellow lines on your screen that marks when a player gets a first down. He is a very busy person on Sunday. Actually, that is his day job. He was involved in designing the software used in many of the sports television.

I know him very well from first debating against this idea and then realizing that I was wrong and debating for it. I do not think he is the sort to waste the many many hours it took to build the Blackbird for a hoax.

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