Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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#127460
Apr 19, 2013
 
This is perhaps the best animation that demonstrates that DDWFTTW is possible. If you accept the well known fact that high performance boats can beat a neutral buoyancy balloon going directly downwind by tacking back and forth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#127461
Apr 19, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I did answer about cell phones. I know those were fake and I even know some of the details of how they were done. It is easy to show that a cell phone could not pop popcorn. It is a simple energy analysis. It has been a while but I have gone through the math for the cart. In fact, the math I went through was from the Russell of the anti-cart nuts. His math actually showed the cart could advance up the belt.
I don't have a treadmill so I cannot do this experiment myself. I have seen many people do it. With different approaches. One of the most interesting was a person who made a rotating wind tunnel so that he could test it in an actual wind. Would you like to see it? This person was like you a serious doubter and he went out of his way to make his own version of the cart and do his own testing.
No, I don't want to see more vids. I want to see an actual prototype, examine it, and set it in the wind on a level piece of road of my choosing.

Here is a more balanced discussion of the phenomenon; http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/05/27/sailing...

I have not made up my mind about the cart, but I have decided you've abandoned your critical thinking in favor of some hearsay and videos.

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#127462
Apr 19, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you never try any experiments on your own?
I certainly do, and that is kind of my point.

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#127463
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
So then, if an electrical engineer told you that cell phones could pop popcorn, you would have to necessarily believe he is telling the truth?
I would still be very dubious. If he showed me the math, like Drela did, that showed how the energy emitted by cell phones was the high enough and that it would focus on kernels of popcorn when in the given orientations. We know that is not the case. The amount of microwave radiation given off by cell phones is extremely low. The power needed to heat up kernels of popcorn far exceeds that given off by cell phones. Worse yet it is not focused energy. I can show that the math of the cell phones hoax is not right. You cannot do this with the DDWFTTW carts.

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#127464
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly do, and that is kind of my point.
Then why haven't you?

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#127465
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't want to see more vids. I want to see an actual prototype, examine it, and set it in the wind on a level piece of road of my choosing.
Here is a more balanced discussion of the phenomenon; http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/05/27/sailing...
I have not made up my mind about the cart, but I have decided you've abandoned your critical thinking in favor of some hearsay and videos.
You did not read all of that, did you?

By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.

If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.

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#127466
Apr 19, 2013
 
And I could run through the many lessons I went through to learn that I was wrong. Your doubt is perfectly natural, I felt the same way at first.

Here is a interesting brain teaser that might help you begin to understand. There is a river that flows directly east. In the area where the river is sometimes the wind blows directly downstream at the speed of the river. It is a good sized river. For best speed going down the river would you want to go on a day when the wind was exactly matching the current or on a day when there was no wind at all?

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#127467
Apr 19, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why haven't you?
I've only been aware of this topic for 20 hours. Why haven't you?

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#127468
Apr 19, 2013
 
Oops, I lost my place. I posted this video on the wrong thread here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

You can read my mistaken post on the "Evolution vs Creation" thread.

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#127469
Apr 19, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read all of that, did you?
By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.
If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.
I have an animation that shows if you can flap your arms 15 times a second, you can hover, so what?

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#127470
Apr 19, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read all of that, did you?
By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.
If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.
You don't think "experts" have been fooled enmass before?

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#127471
Apr 19, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
This is perhaps the best animation that demonstrates that DDWFTTW is possible. If you accept the well known fact that high performance boats can beat a neutral buoyancy balloon going directly downwind by tacking back and forth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
This video describes tacking and how it relates to propellers, it does nothing to demonstrate DDWFTTW is possible.

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#127472
Apr 19, 2013
 
I know this is not a definitive source, but it is a fun one:

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-rec...

by the way, though the Greenbird is the fastest sailing vessel ever if there was a race between the Blackbird and the Greenbird and it was a directly downwind race, no jibing back and forth with the wind, the Blackbird would handily beat the Greenbird.

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#127473
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an animation that shows if you can flap your arms 15 times a second, you can hover, so what?
Your animation would be wrong. The errors would be apparent. Did you find any errors in that animation?

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#127474
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't think "experts" have been fooled enmass before?
Yes, they have. But then they usually did not have complete access to the device being tested. NALSA could inspect any and all elements of the Blackbird, and the BUFC before that. The BUFC was just the Blackbird without all of the aerodynamics. It would be very hard to hide anything on that.

The small carts are extremely simple. spork even made a build video so that people could make their own. He does not sell the parts or the video. The video is on YouTube, he tells you where you can get parts from.

Do you have a problem with the treadmill representing the cart on the road at wind speed? As I said quite a few kids thought this was a cool idea and did it for high school science fairs.

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#127475
Apr 19, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
This video describes tacking and how it relates to propellers, it does nothing to demonstrate DDWFTTW is possible.
No, the bare propeller that is being driven by the wind is a pure DDWFTW device.

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#127476
Apr 19, 2013
 
Oogah Boogah, as I said, I cried fraud with the first video that I saw.

The problem is that both of us thought the wind powers items by blowing on them. That is not really true. The energy from the wind comes from slowing the wind that is interacted with relative to another surface. In the case of the various carts, sail boats, wind turbines, etc. they slow down the speed of the wind they interact with relative to the ground. That change in kinetic energy of the wind relative to the ground is a huge source of potential energy.

When the cart is moving at the speed of the wind the air around it is still moving relative to the ground. So if the cart can slow down that wind relative to the ground it should be able to harvest that energy. In fact theoretically it does not matter how fast the cart is moving. It is not what is being slowed down relative to the ground. Even if it is moving at twice the speed of the wind the wind it travels through is moving relative to the ground. If it can slow down that air it should be able to harvest that energy.

If you look at the cart carefully enough that is exactly what it does. The thrust from the propeller slows down the wind relative to the ground, that adds more thrust to the vehicle and it goes faster. Eventually internal losses and wind resistance are high enough so that it balances and goes no faster.

I will be back. Have fun. I want to make your brain hurt! But in a good way.

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#127477
Apr 19, 2013
 
Oogah Boogah, a though occurred to me. You said you could not tell which way the treadmill was going. Are you watching the videos at full screen on a decent monitor? I keep forgetting that there are so many small handheld devices out there today you might not appreciate how clear some of these videos are in high definition and full screen.

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#127478
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

Why are you posting references to what happened hundreds of years later.

The whole area is now built up. A violation of the prophecy.

Nebuchadnezzar never conquered the island city (the main part).

Points we brought out a week ago still stand.

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#127479
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

Really. Is this all you got?

Until you can address any of the points you have been avoiding please don't bother wasting space on this crap.

You lost.


Deal with it.

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