Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,162

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127468 Apr 19, 2013
Oops, I lost my place. I posted this video on the wrong thread here:



You can read my mistaken post on the "Evolution vs Creation" thread.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127469 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read all of that, did you?
By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.
If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.
I have an animation that shows if you can flap your arms 15 times a second, you can hover, so what?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127470 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read all of that, did you?
By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.
If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.
You don't think "experts" have been fooled enmass before?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127471 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
This is perhaps the best animation that demonstrates that DDWFTTW is possible. If you accept the well known fact that high performance boats can beat a neutral buoyancy balloon going directly downwind by tacking back and forth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =UGRFb8yNtBoXX
This video describes tacking and how it relates to propellers, it does nothing to demonstrate DDWFTTW is possible.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127472 Apr 19, 2013
I know this is not a definitive source, but it is a fun one:

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-rec...

by the way, though the Greenbird is the fastest sailing vessel ever if there was a race between the Blackbird and the Greenbird and it was a directly downwind race, no jibing back and forth with the wind, the Blackbird would handily beat the Greenbird.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127473 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I have an animation that shows if you can flap your arms 15 times a second, you can hover, so what?
Your animation would be wrong. The errors would be apparent. Did you find any errors in that animation?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127474 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't think "experts" have been fooled enmass before?
Yes, they have. But then they usually did not have complete access to the device being tested. NALSA could inspect any and all elements of the Blackbird, and the BUFC before that. The BUFC was just the Blackbird without all of the aerodynamics. It would be very hard to hide anything on that.

The small carts are extremely simple. spork even made a build video so that people could make their own. He does not sell the parts or the video. The video is on YouTube, he tells you where you can get parts from.

Do you have a problem with the treadmill representing the cart on the road at wind speed? As I said quite a few kids thought this was a cool idea and did it for high school science fairs.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127475 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
This video describes tacking and how it relates to propellers, it does nothing to demonstrate DDWFTTW is possible.
No, the bare propeller that is being driven by the wind is a pure DDWFTW device.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127476 Apr 19, 2013
Oogah Boogah, as I said, I cried fraud with the first video that I saw.

The problem is that both of us thought the wind powers items by blowing on them. That is not really true. The energy from the wind comes from slowing the wind that is interacted with relative to another surface. In the case of the various carts, sail boats, wind turbines, etc. they slow down the speed of the wind they interact with relative to the ground. That change in kinetic energy of the wind relative to the ground is a huge source of potential energy.

When the cart is moving at the speed of the wind the air around it is still moving relative to the ground. So if the cart can slow down that wind relative to the ground it should be able to harvest that energy. In fact theoretically it does not matter how fast the cart is moving. It is not what is being slowed down relative to the ground. Even if it is moving at twice the speed of the wind the wind it travels through is moving relative to the ground. If it can slow down that air it should be able to harvest that energy.

If you look at the cart carefully enough that is exactly what it does. The thrust from the propeller slows down the wind relative to the ground, that adds more thrust to the vehicle and it goes faster. Eventually internal losses and wind resistance are high enough so that it balances and goes no faster.

I will be back. Have fun. I want to make your brain hurt! But in a good way.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127477 Apr 19, 2013
Oogah Boogah, a though occurred to me. You said you could not tell which way the treadmill was going. Are you watching the videos at full screen on a decent monitor? I keep forgetting that there are so many small handheld devices out there today you might not appreciate how clear some of these videos are in high definition and full screen.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127478 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

Why are you posting references to what happened hundreds of years later.

The whole area is now built up. A violation of the prophecy.

Nebuchadnezzar never conquered the island city (the main part).

Points we brought out a week ago still stand.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127479 Apr 19, 2013
Russell wrote:
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

Really. Is this all you got?

Until you can address any of the points you have been avoiding please don't bother wasting space on this crap.

You lost.


Deal with it.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127480 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Because Nebby had allies.
This is a very important point. It says "many nations" but all of the fighters are Nebby's. It always refers to things that Nebby will do and what HIS men will do.
He was the head of the many nations.
For the exceedingly slow rusty. Alex the much better than average and his men definitely were NOT NEBBY's MEN.
Let's quote some verses to the idiot:
Ezekiel 26 7: For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army.
Who was going to attack from the north? That's right Nebby.
26 8: He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you.
Who will wipe out the land based settlements and build a siege work to the island city.
That's right, again "He" it must be Nebby. Did he do the latter? Not really. It is already looking a bit shaky.
26 9: He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons.
Nebby.
26 10: His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through.
Oh, oh. This still refers to Nebby. Did he do these things to Tyre? Nope. I wish I knew Australian geography, but mistaking the sister cites for Tyre, which from context is what is being talked about here, would be as stupid of an error as mistaking Newark New Jersey for New York, New York. You know the sort of idiotic mistake the a Christian Fundamentalist would make.
26 11: The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.
Hmm, still taking about Nebby and the island city of Tyre. Where does it mention Alex?
26 12: They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.
Ah, the first mention of the infamous "they". But since this was talking about Nebby and his men attacking Tyre it is pretty clear to all but the brain dead that "they" are Nebby and HIS men.
26 13: I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more.
We are almost done rusty.
26 14: I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.
Oops, there we go. That is pretty much it. "You will never be rebuilt". Sorry rusty, your improper definition of rebilt does not hold up. Tyre was rebuilt, we know that because there IS a modern city there today. Just like you admitted earlier. That is sort of the definition of "rebuilt".
Notice, nothing taken out of context, nothing up my sleeve. No mention of anyone else being in charge of this attack than Nebby, from context it is clear that he is the leader of the attack. He was a "king of kings" that means when he attacks he is attacking with other kings.
You do not get to move the goal posts 250 years down the road.
The prophesy fails on several points.
Nebby did not defeat Tyre.
Even if we let you cheat Alex did not wipe it out.
It was rebuilt from the unpredicted attacker.
It repeated fails. One of the worst prophesies in the Bible.

Nice post. He will keep babbling about what happened hundreds of years later. Epic fail.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127481 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Oogah Boogah, a though occurred to me. You said you could not tell which way the treadmill was going. Are you watching the videos at full screen on a decent monitor? I keep forgetting that there are so many small handheld devices out there today you might not appreciate how clear some of these videos are in high definition and full screen.
I am watching on a decent monitor, I am also aware of aliasing effects due to shutter speed. I also pay attention to which way the wheel starts to turn when placed on the belt, which is why I think the treadmill is running backwards, but again because of aliasing effects, that also may not be correct.

And again, just because you say so and you have a video, that is not enough. But it does make an interesting topic, which is off topic for this thread. Thanks for the heads up on the discussion, but I won't be discussing it further here.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127482 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I've only been aware of this topic for 20 hours. Why haven't you?
We did it in high school, did you even graduate?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127483 Apr 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Sodom & Gomorrah found! This righteous judgement of sin and destruction of these cities actually happened and in addition to Biblical, has archaeological evidence to support it.
"The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a certain fact in history. The Genesis account is in narrative form and is alluded to by several Old Testament writers. Jesus Himself obviously believed it and in fact was an eyewitness as the pre-incarnate Lord." (See Matthew 11:23-24; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:12 and 17:28-32.
http://www.icr.org/article/7312/

ICR article. No reason to even open the link.

If it is real then you can certainly reference a ligament source.

Please.

I searched for references and found nothing conclusive.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127484 Apr 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you didn't understand what "The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a certain fact in history" means. Does the author leave any doubt? No - of course not. How are these not real scholars? Or are you just a bitter liar? I knew this one would hit particularly hard for the gay-homosexuals as that is the reason they were destroyed and also the basis for law against Sodomy (Gross!).

No, it is not certain. I can find no source for definitive research.

BTW, there is no biblical reference to sodomy being an issue in these cities. That is an attribution (assumption) that was made in post biblical times.

Maybe do some reading on good sites.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#127485 Apr 19, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Drdino.com didn't have anything about it?

LOL.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127486 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
We did it in high school, did you even graduate?
That seems uncharacteristically uncalled for.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127487 Apr 19, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not certain. I can find no source for definitive research.
BTW, there is no biblical reference to sodomy being an issue in these cities. That is an attribution (assumption) that was made in post biblical times.
Maybe do some reading on good sites.
Sodom and Gomorrah is the first registered and documented case of homophobia that led to gay bashing and genocide
Clearly morality and human equality, didn't exist in the days of biblical homophobic geno/gendercide.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 6 min Subduction Zone 132,687
An atheistic view on evolution vs. a godly view... 2 hr Chimney1 538
How would creationists explain... 5 hr DanFromSmithville 340
Creationism coming to Ohio classrooms? Not with... 12 hr nobody 7
god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Jun '06) 23 hr Brian_G 13,618
24 hour dental emergency (Nov '13) Fri Zach 4
Science News (Sep '13) Fri Ricky F 2,936
More from around the web