Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,162

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127448 Apr 19, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not at all surprised, everything in the OT will be proven, including the destruction of Babylon and Noahs' flood.
Um, then why does all evidence contradict such stories?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127449 Apr 19, 2013
And another very nice article on it from the number two NALSA observer:

http://blueplanettimes.com/...

Like I said, it is a brain twister. But once you understand it it is not such a hard idea.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127450 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it constant advanced up the belt. It was going faster than the belt. I just clicked on the link and watched it again.
No, cell phones cannot pop popcorn. I know it is possible to fake things on YouTube. It is not very easy to fool people who understand sailing. NALSA is the same group that certified the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle. The regularly race wind driven vehicles. This has been written up on quite a few e-zines. Some of which originally said this was impossible. And quite a few school kids have also done this as a school science fair project.
I can even site an MIT expert in aerodynamics who has said that the problem is trivial.
What more do you need?
I can't really tell which way the treadmill is running and I don't believe you can either. So, do you think cell phones can pop popcorn?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127451 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it constant advanced up the belt. It was going faster than the belt. I just clicked on the link and watched it again.
No, cell phones cannot pop popcorn. I know it is possible to fake things on YouTube. It is not very easy to fool people who understand sailing. NALSA is the same group that certified the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle. The regularly race wind driven vehicles. This has been written up on quite a few e-zines. Some of which originally said this was impossible. And quite a few school kids have also done this as a school science fair project.
I can even site an MIT expert in aerodynamics who has said that the problem is trivial.
What more do you need?
OIC you did answer about the cell phones, but I still don't think you can really tell in the video which way the treadmill was running. You do know there are people who delight in convincing others of absurdities, right?

Have you done this experiment yourself? Or are you just relying on hearsay and videos?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127452 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And another very nice article on it from the number two NALSA observer:
http://blueplanettimes.com/...
Like I said, it is a brain twister. But once you understand it it is not such a hard idea.
Argument on authority is a fallacy, you know that right?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127453 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Argument on authority is a fallacy, you know that right?
No, it is not. It is a fallacy only when the authority is not an authority of the subject being discussed.

For example you would not use a rocket scientist as an authority when arguing about cars. If you were arguing about rockets you would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_au...

On aerodynamics Drela is legitimate expert on the subject.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127454 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't really tell which way the treadmill is running and I don't believe you can either. So, do you think cell phones can pop popcorn?
I can and I know which way the treadmill runs.

Have you ever run on a treadmill? They all run the same way. When you stand on them you face the controls and they run in the direction away from the controls. That way you can run forwards and control your speed.

The cart advances up the treadmill.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127455 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I can and I know which way the treadmill runs.
Have you ever run on a treadmill? They all run the same way. When you stand on them you face the controls and they run in the direction away from the controls. That way you can run forwards and control your speed.
The cart advances up the treadmill.
Wow!! This is the first I've heard that treadmills can not be modified. Thanks for the info!!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127456 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
OIC you did answer about the cell phones, but I still don't think you can really tell in the video which way the treadmill was running. You do know there are people who delight in convincing others of absurdities, right?
Have you done this experiment yourself? Or are you just relying on hearsay and videos?
Actually I did answer about cell phones. I know those were fake and I even know some of the details of how they were done. It is easy to show that a cell phone could not pop popcorn. It is a simple energy analysis. It has been a while but I have gone through the math for the cart. In fact, the math I went through was from the Russell of the anti-cart nuts. His math actually showed the cart could advance up the belt.

I don't have a treadmill so I cannot do this experiment myself. I have seen many people do it. With different approaches. One of the most interesting was a person who made a rotating wind tunnel so that he could test it in an actual wind. Would you like to see it? This person was like you a serious doubter and he went out of his way to make his own version of the cart and do his own testing.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127457 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not. It is a fallacy only when the authority is not an authority of the subject being discussed.
For example you would not use a rocket scientist as an authority when arguing about cars. If you were arguing about rockets you would.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_au...
On aerodynamics Drela is legitimate expert on the subject.
Considering they choose to rely on Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron for scientific facts ....

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127458 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is not. It is a fallacy only when the authority is not an authority of the subject being discussed.
For example you would not use a rocket scientist as an authority when arguing about cars. If you were arguing about rockets you would.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_au...
On aerodynamics Drela is legitimate expert on the subject.
So then, if an electrical engineer told you that cell phones could pop popcorn, you would have to necessarily believe he is telling the truth?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127459 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
So then, if an electrical engineer told you that cell phones could pop popcorn, you would have to necessarily believe he is telling the truth?
Do you never try any experiments on your own?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127460 Apr 19, 2013
This is perhaps the best animation that demonstrates that DDWFTTW is possible. If you accept the well known fact that high performance boats can beat a neutral buoyancy balloon going directly downwind by tacking back and forth:

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127461 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I did answer about cell phones. I know those were fake and I even know some of the details of how they were done. It is easy to show that a cell phone could not pop popcorn. It is a simple energy analysis. It has been a while but I have gone through the math for the cart. In fact, the math I went through was from the Russell of the anti-cart nuts. His math actually showed the cart could advance up the belt.
I don't have a treadmill so I cannot do this experiment myself. I have seen many people do it. With different approaches. One of the most interesting was a person who made a rotating wind tunnel so that he could test it in an actual wind. Would you like to see it? This person was like you a serious doubter and he went out of his way to make his own version of the cart and do his own testing.
No, I don't want to see more vids. I want to see an actual prototype, examine it, and set it in the wind on a level piece of road of my choosing.

Here is a more balanced discussion of the phenomenon; http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/05/27/sailing...

I have not made up my mind about the cart, but I have decided you've abandoned your critical thinking in favor of some hearsay and videos.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127462 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you never try any experiments on your own?
I certainly do, and that is kind of my point.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127463 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
So then, if an electrical engineer told you that cell phones could pop popcorn, you would have to necessarily believe he is telling the truth?
I would still be very dubious. If he showed me the math, like Drela did, that showed how the energy emitted by cell phones was the high enough and that it would focus on kernels of popcorn when in the given orientations. We know that is not the case. The amount of microwave radiation given off by cell phones is extremely low. The power needed to heat up kernels of popcorn far exceeds that given off by cell phones. Worse yet it is not focused energy. I can show that the math of the cell phones hoax is not right. You cannot do this with the DDWFTTW carts.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127464 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly do, and that is kind of my point.
Then why haven't you?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127465 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't want to see more vids. I want to see an actual prototype, examine it, and set it in the wind on a level piece of road of my choosing.
Here is a more balanced discussion of the phenomenon; http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/05/27/sailing...
I have not made up my mind about the cart, but I have decided you've abandoned your critical thinking in favor of some hearsay and videos.
You did not read all of that, did you?

By the way, if it is a hoax then they have fooled the best experts in the world. They fooled NALSA, they fooled Richard Jenkins, designer and pilot of the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle, they fooled several technical magazines, they fooled Mark Drela without even trying since he said this was possible independently, after a while you have to start looking at who they supposedly failed and say maybe it works.

If you checked out the simple animation you should be able to see how it is possible.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127466 Apr 19, 2013
And I could run through the many lessons I went through to learn that I was wrong. Your doubt is perfectly natural, I felt the same way at first.

Here is a interesting brain teaser that might help you begin to understand. There is a river that flows directly east. In the area where the river is sometimes the wind blows directly downstream at the speed of the river. It is a good sized river. For best speed going down the river would you want to go on a day when the wind was exactly matching the current or on a day when there was no wind at all?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127467 Apr 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why haven't you?
I've only been aware of this topic for 20 hours. Why haven't you?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 3 min Dogen 134,686
god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Jun '06) 3 hr The Dude 13,639
Intelligent Design: Still Dead [EvolutionBlog] 3 hr geezerjock 1
How would creationists explain... 3 hr The Dude 446
Why Are There No Transitional Animals Today? (Mar '09) 3 hr The Dude 514
Evolutionists staes that white people are more ... (Jun '06) 7 hr spiderlover 77
Science News (Sep '13) 22 hr Hatti_Hollerand 2,948
More from around the web