Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."
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#127401
Apr 18, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> I suppose you don't remember we touched this subject before about a year ago. I hadn't heard of the car before then and was fascinated. But I'm still a horrible not anti green power or anything but while this does fascinate me , the SSC Bloodhound and The North American Eagle captivate me. I'm horrible in the respect of those wasting in excess motors that scream bloody hell ..lol
I hope the Eagle gets the LSR back for America, but the bloodhound and it both are shooting for 1000.
http://landspeed.com/project/project-updates
That is very cool too.

I don't know how "green" the DWFTTW vehicles really are since there are not too many real world applications that I can think of. Now when it comes to race cars there are quite a few safety devices that came from them and of course improvements in steering, power etc..

There is nothing wrong in following a very fast car and I hope the team you are following does well.

Now that is a vehicle that I would not want to drive.
Russell

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#127402
Apr 18, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh crap, I missed too.
Tyre is the peninsula that sticks out into the Mediterranean.
If you look at it you can see that over 2/3 of the peninsula is occupied. About a third of it is ruins.
Tyre was an island until Alex the Great built a causeway. The causeway changed the local currents and it filled in. Now it is no longer an island. Ancient Tyre was an island.
Truncated

Poor fool

You do have my sympathies...

Nope

Even Ezekiel clearly mentions two aspect to Tyre

Mainland

Ez 26: 6

"...and her settlements on the ==**mainland**== will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord."

Notice the word MAINLAND?

==========
Here's another version from my previous post--->

Did you notice the clear reference to the MAINLAND?

Here it is:

Verse 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword;

==========

Water based-------->

The Tyrians carried off all their wealth to the island

That indeed is the New Tyre

Alexander referred to MAINLAND Tyre as Paleotyros

"Palaetyros" (Old Tyre) to build his great causeway (or "mole") from the mainland out to the island in order to conquer the island where the Tyrians then lived. In doing this his army and the many local people he conscripted as labourers fulfilled the words of 26:12 exactly"

==========
So here we are again

These are your unrealistic demands

1) That Ezekiel prophesied that King Nebuchadrezzar alone would destroy Tyre

You are wrong

Babylon is NOT many nations
Nebuchadrezzar was a Babylonian king

==========
2) That the ancient Phoenician city has been rebuilt

It never has

Neither has Pompeii that is another destroyed ancient city

It has a modern version called Pompei

But Pompeii has not been rebuilt

That is a well accepted fact

==========

You're wrong on both counts

==========
I'm sure you rue the day you met me, you sorry old dog
But at least you can tell you brother that you're doing a Bible study with a fundie creationist...!

==========

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#127403
Apr 18, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text> Truncated
Poor rusty is such a fool
You do have my sympathies...
Nope
Even Ezekiel clearly mentions two aspect to Tyre
Mainland
Ez 26: 6
"...and her settlements on the ==**mainland**== will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord."
Notice the word MAINLAND?
==========
Here's another version from my previous post--->
Did you notice the clear reference to the MAINLAND?
Here it is:
Verse 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword;
==========
Water based-------->
The Tyrians carried off all their wealth to the island
That indeed is the New Tyre
Alexander referred to MAINLAND Tyre as Paleotyros
"Palaetyros" (Old Tyre) to build his great causeway (or "mole") from the mainland out to the island in order to conquer the island where the Tyrians then lived. In doing this his army and the many local people he conscripted as labourers fulfilled the words of 26:12 exactly"
==========
So here we are again
These are your unrealistic demands
1) That Ezekiel prophesied that King Nebuchadrezzar alone would destroy Tyre
You are wrong
Babylon is NOT many nations
Nebuchadrezzar was a Babylonian king
==========
2) That the ancient Phoenician city has been rebuilt
It never has
Neither has Pompeii that is another destroyed ancient city
It has a modern version called Pompei
But Pompeii has not been rebuilt
That is a well accepted fact
==========
You're wrong on both counts
==========
I'm sure you rue the day you met me, you sorry old dog
But at least you can tell you brother that you're doing a Bible study with a fundie creationist...!
==========
Idiot. I already admitted that the shore based cites were overrun.

That was the minor part of the argument. The prediction of destroying the city was the island city that was old Tyre.

That was the city Nebby never go to, it is not the "New Tyre". Read the prophesy again and you will see that it refers a city in the sea. In other words an island.

And no, Alex the Great did not fulfill the prophesy by building a causeway. First off he was not the man nor were his soldiers the men referred to in the prediction. All of it refers to Nebuchadnezzar and his men. Not a greater kings men.

Second, he did not use the city of Tyre to build the causeway. Any site that claims that has proven themselves to be idiots. How would he use to Tyre to get to Tyre.

Once again, the outer part of the peninsula is the old island kingdom of Tyre. Your site even said so where they wrote how it was rebuilt over the old city.

Another terrible fail for rusty.

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#127404
Apr 18, 2013
 
By the way, idiot rusty, how could I be wrong about Pompeii when I made no claims about Pompeii?

Another fine fail brought to you by rusty.

So, Nebby never entered Tyre. He failed the prophesy failed. Alex was not the "many nations" as often as you want to claim it. That is the purest of male bovine end product.

Failed prophecy.

The island city of Tyre, which was the original Tyre, has been rebuilt. rusty's own article says so, he posted it. It was supposed to be bare forever.

Another failure of the prophesy.

Sorry, but I have to keep hitting rusty's head with a hammer.

Remember the huge joke he told a day or two ago where he said that he was quick on the uptake?

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#127405
Apr 18, 2013
 
And another site answers a very leading question with a very exact answer:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...

He points out, as others have who actually tested the history and read the prediction that the city that was supposed to be attacked and scraped into the sea was the island city. The person who was supposed to attack it was Nebby. It was never supposed to be built upon again.

I know the imbecile will probably find another apologetics site that tries to whitewash this failure, but for anyone with at least a 5th grade reading ability the failure of the Tyre prophecy is obvious.
Russell

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#127406
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
And another site answers a very leading question with a very exact answer:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
He points out, as others have who actually tested the history and read the prediction that the city that was supposed to be attacked and scraped into the sea was the island city. The person who was supposed to attack it was Nebby. It was never supposed to be built upon again.
I know the imbecile will probably find another apologetics site that tries to whitewash this failure, but for anyone with at least a 5th grade reading ability the failure of the Tyre prophecy is obvious.
I'm busy right now but I'll get to your ridiculous assertions shortly

You do shoddy research and simply CANT read

EVERYTHING you are claiming is WRONG

Additionally

I have not claimed that you said Pompeii was rebuilt

That was the whole point, you nutcase

NO ONE CLAIMS IT HAS BEEN REBUILT

Despite a modern Pompei in existence

Yes, with living people in it

==========

You're claiming Tyre has been rebuilt because there is a modern day Tyre with people

==========

Your poor brother
What he has to put up with!

You're a complete jackass

....and you're going down

==========
Why am I surprised?

This is precisely what you do before folding

EVERY TIME

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#127407
Apr 19, 2013
 
Yes Russell, that is the definition of rebuilt.

Ask anyone, Tyre is rebuilt because it is rebuilt over the ruins of old Tyre. Rome is rebuilt in the same fashion in many places. So is Athens, in fact that is the case in almost any ancient city. Parts of it are rebuilt over older parts. If they do decide to tear down a building in an ancient city these days the site becomes an archaeological dig since it gives them a chance to look under the newer building.

We all knew you were an idiot, but we did not know how deep the idiocy went.

So, once again, the prediction said Nebby and his men would invade and destroy the island city of Tyre. They didn't the prophecy failed.

The prophecy said the island city would be scraped bare. It wasn't. Where the ruins are they are still there.

The prophecy failed.

It was predicted that no one would ever live there again. People live there.

The prophecy failed.

You don't get to move the goal posts on this one. Zeke was Nebby's prisoner when he wrote the prophesy. He knew that Nebby was going to invade and Zeke, not god, was mad at Tyre. He ranted and raved like you lying creatards do and made a failed prophesy.

And why do you keep bringing up Pompeii? I never used it as an example. I guess loser retards tend to grasp whatever straws they can.

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#127408
Apr 19, 2013
 
Sometimes to protect my brain from extreme idiocy I do not read all of rusty's posts.

For example his "Pompeii/Pompei" nonsense.

Pompeii was not rebuilt because it was turned into a permanent archaeological site. It has more value for the preserved history and as a tourist attraction than it would have as a town. Pompei is a village right next to Pompeii and they took there name more or less from the site.

You are correct in a very minor way that Pompeii was never rebuilt, but then no one ever tried to. It is an extremely Russell, oops, I mean stupid example.

Pompeii was not rebuilt, Tyre was. Your own sources that you quoted at me TWICE said so. I have said so. Any historian will say so. Only idiot Christian Fundies will deny this.
Russell

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#127409
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Right

Now where were we....

I think we're making great progress in our Bible study

The student is a little....shall we say...feisty

But we'll get there in the end

****SPECIAL ED CLASS******

<Excrutiatingly slow....but them's the breaks

Some people are just s-l-o-w learners>

==========

SubDud

You can take back what you have said about King Nebuchadrezzar being the sole instigator of the destruction of Tyre

You're clearly wrong

The Ezekiel 26 verses open with the "many nations" stated within the first 3 verses

Here it is:

Ez 26:3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you,

MANY NATIONS

Therefore

Scripture 100,000,000
SZ 0


==========

Why do Ezekiel say "many nations" if God, who you're trying to prove wrong only meant Nebuchadrezzar ?

Nebuchadrezzar is NOT many nations

He was Babylonian

Why does Ezekiel say many nations?

Why?
Russell

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#127410
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Hold on to your hats, folks

Here's where we lose SZ

But never mind

We'll just back track again and again.....

Like a perpetual motion machine

Until we get somewhere

==========

LOCATION OF ANCIENT PHOENICIAN TYRE

1) MAINLAND TYRE---> AKA PALEOTYROS

"But two separate ancient accounts - one by Strabo, the other in the Periplus of (pseudo-)Scylax - clearly place Palaetyros south of Greek/Roman era Tyre.

So Palaetyros was not in the area presently (and from Greek/Roman times) called "Tyre".

A third line of evidence concerns the classical accounts of the building of Alexander's moles that imply the first (failed) mole was started from a point on the coast south-east, not due east, from the island.

That, logically, also puts Palaetyros (the source of most mole material) south of the island, not due east of it.

==========

Remember that the materials for the building of the causeway were acquired from the rubble of the destroyed Paleotyre

==========

That large area about 1.5 miles south of current Tyre, on the coast, fits these relevant historical details

Today quite barren and desolate

That is where the original Tyre, as described by Ezekiel, was.

As you can see, it's certainly not built now - it's actually a protected nature reserve.

However, the several unusual surface features - zoom in to look more closely - invite investigation, as possible indications that a city once stood there. "

Thus

The Google map site I had linked reveals the site of Ancient Tyre aka Paleotyre

==========

"Tyre again endured a long siege in its struggle with Nebuchadnezzar.

The town upon the coast was utterly destroyed"

This is from a Google digitized book

See Chap 8 Number 60 for this quote

http://archive.org/stream/cyprusitshistor01la...

==========

Also here Tyre is described as two separate sites

http://www.glbet-el.org/textesfrancais/Hiram%...

==========

And furthermore

From the Columbia Encyclopaedia-->

"The principal ruins of the city today are those of buildings erected by the Crusaders. There are some Greco-Roman remains, but any left by the Phoenicians lie underneath the present town. "

Read more: Tyre | Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/histor...

==========

2) ISLAND TYRE

"Underwater archaeological survey in the northern harbour at Tyre.

"Bulletin d’Arche´ologie et d’Architecture Libanaises, Hors-Se´rie 2, 111e128) we demonstrate that Poidebard’s (1939. Un grand port disparu, Tyr. Recherches ae´riennes et sous-marines, 1934e1936, Librairie Orientaliste Paul Geuthner, Paris) Egyptian harbour is in reality a drowned quarter of the ancient city. Informed hypotheses are proposed for a possible second anchorage at Tyre, and it is demonstrated that presently drowned portions of the sandstone ridge served as outer harbours during the Bronze and Iron Ages."

http://www.mediterranean-geoarchaeology.com/U...

==========

As you can tell from this work cited above.....the ancient island city was DROWNED in addition to other forms of destruction

I am not aware of modern cities built upon such underwater ruins

==========

Finally

Here is a map of ancient Tyre

It depicts Alexander's mole or causeway

Please note the position of Paleotyros or Old Tyre

It is SOUTHEAST of island Tyre

Just as I showed in the Google map I had linked earlier

It is desolate and barren

NOT BUILT UP
Russell

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#127411
Apr 19, 2013
 

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Here is a map of ancient Tyre

It depicts Alexander's mole or causeway

Please note the position of Paleotyros or Old Tyre

It is SOUTHEAST of island Tyre

Just as I showed in the Google map I had linked earlier

It is desolate and barren

NOT BUILT UP

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/introgreece/tyr...

==========

Please co-relate with the ancient map this Google map

http://maps.google.com/maps...
Russell

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#127412
Apr 19, 2013
 
Here's another map depicting where Old Tyre was:

http://www.ancient.eu.com/uploads/images/537....

Its from this site that also happens to clearly mention Old and "New" aka island Tyre

http://www.ancient.eu.com/article/107/
Russell

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#127413
Apr 19, 2013
 
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...

“I am Sisyphus”

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#127414
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogem provides Dodgy information
How did the prophesies of verses 9-11 never happen
It was a land based siege
Battering rams were a very common battle weapon
I am intrigued by what false doctrine you are about to amaze me

History records that he never penetrated the city walls and that the seize was ended by a truce and an agreement to pay tribute.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#127415
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How's the research on my question going, Oh Educated Toothless One?
I thought you'd have it all wrapped up by now
Been working on it with what spare time I may have. Are you trying to build a case that DNA is a computer code?
Russell wrote:
Here I am, sleeves rolled up
Sinews gleaming with Aussie sweat....waiting
Bite the bullet
Come into the area
Let's rumble
Don't just stand there in the sidelines, eating popcorn, screaming platitudes
I picture more of a scrawny, little pip-squeek wetting his pants.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#127416
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope
Neither has Pompeii
There is a modern Pompei---> spelt with one 'i'
Its near Naples
Yeah. Been to the area. It's on the other side of Vesuvius from Naples. Debatable about Pompeii being rebuilt as building did go on the the area - on top of the ash deposited by the eruption with buried the ancient city. It was first discovered in 1599, reburied, then rediscovered in 1738. The reason it was rediscovered? A building project for modern Pompei.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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#127417
Apr 19, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
rusty, you idiot. Did I ever mention Pompeii? With one i or two i's? Odds are you are wrong about that city too. You have been wrong about everything else so far.
He IS consistent!

;-)

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#127418
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text> Truncated
Poor fool
You do have my sympathies...
Nope
Even Ezekiel clearly mentions two aspect to Tyre
Mainland
Ez 26: 6
"...and her settlements on the ==**mainland**== will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord."
Notice the word MAINLAND?
==========
Here's another version from my previous post--->
Did you notice the clear reference to the MAINLAND?
Here it is:
Verse 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword;
==========
Water based-------->
The Tyrians carried off all their wealth to the island
That indeed is the New Tyre
Alexander referred to MAINLAND Tyre as Paleotyros
"Palaetyros" (Old Tyre) to build his great causeway (or "mole") from the mainland out to the island in order to conquer the island where the Tyrians then lived. In doing this his army and the many local people he conscripted as labourers fulfilled the words of 26:12 exactly"
==========
So here we are again
These are your unrealistic demands
1) That Ezekiel prophesied that King Nebuchadrezzar alone would destroy Tyre
You are wrong
Babylon is NOT many nations
Nebuchadrezzar was a Babylonian king
==========
2) That the ancient Phoenician city has been rebuilt
It never has
Neither has Pompeii that is another destroyed ancient city
It has a modern version called Pompei
But Pompeii has not been rebuilt
That is a well accepted fact
==========
You're wrong on both counts
==========
I'm sure you rue the day you met me, you sorry old dog
But at least you can tell you brother that you're doing a Bible study with a fundie creationist...!
==========

Why do you keep beating on this?

You cannot handle the fundamental issues.

1. He did not get into the city.

2. The "prophecy" was written AFTER the events they narrate.

3. The city was not ravaged to the ground.

4.......

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#127419
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
Right
==========
Why do Ezekiel say "many nations" if God, who you're trying to prove wrong only meant Nebuchadrezzar ?
Nebuchadrezzar is NOT many nations
He was Babylonian
Why does Ezekiel say many nations?
Why?
Because Nebby had allies.

This is a very important point. It says "many nations" but all of the fighters are Nebby's. It always refers to things that Nebby will do and what HIS men will do.

He was the head of the many nations.

For the exceedingly slow rusty. Alex the much better than average and his men definitely were NOT NEBBY's MEN.

Let's quote some verses to the idiot:

Ezekiel 26 7: For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army.

Who was going to attack from the north? That's right Nebby.

26 8: He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you.

Who will wipe out the land based settlements and build a siege work to the island city.

That's right, again "He" it must be Nebby. Did he do the latter? Not really. It is already looking a bit shaky.

26 9: He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons.

Nebby.

26 10: His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through.

Oh, oh. This still refers to Nebby. Did he do these things to Tyre? Nope. I wish I knew Australian geography, but mistaking the sister cites for Tyre, which from context is what is being talked about here, would be as stupid of an error as mistaking Newark New Jersey for New York, New York. You know the sort of idiotic mistake the a Christian Fundamentalist would make.

26 11: The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground.

Hmm, still taking about Nebby and the island city of Tyre. Where does it mention Alex?

26 12: They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

Ah, the first mention of the infamous "they". But since this was talking about Nebby and his men attacking Tyre it is pretty clear to all but the brain dead that "they" are Nebby and HIS men.

26 13: I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more.

We are almost done rusty.

26 14: I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Oops, there we go. That is pretty much it. "You will never be rebuilt". Sorry rusty, your improper definition of rebilt does not hold up. Tyre was rebuilt, we know that because there IS a modern city there today. Just like you admitted earlier. That is sort of the definition of "rebuilt".

Notice, nothing taken out of context, nothing up my sleeve. No mention of anyone else being in charge of this attack than Nebby, from context it is clear that he is the leader of the attack. He was a "king of kings" that means when he attacks he is attacking with other kings.

You do not get to move the goal posts 250 years down the road.

The prophesy fails on several points.

Nebby did not defeat Tyre.

Even if we let you cheat Alex did not wipe it out.

It was rebuilt from the unpredicted attacker.

It repeated fails. One of the worst prophesies in the Bible.

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#127420
Apr 19, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
Here's another site unequivocally stating there was an island Tyre and an "Old" mainland Tyre
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswa...
No, your article only mentions the city of Tyre. You know, the one in the ocean.

rusty cannot even read his own sources.

What a Maroon.

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