Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178696 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127436 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And this video is a bit of an inside joke.
A doubter who did not understand the simple concept of a Galilean Transformation thought that testing a cart against popcorn would be the definitive test (though there is a video of the BUFC charging through a cloud of dust ). Windgrins did many tests for spork after the fact and as a pilot recognized that for the small carts they would be much more stable if the prop was a puller prop rather than a pusher prop.
Here is his famed popcorn test. It still cracks me up, but it might be too much of an inside joke for most:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =keEQgYkyecIXX
Speaking of which, if I were to believe anything based just on say so and videos, then I must believe cell phones can pop popcorn. http://www.youtube.com/v/V94shlqPlSI

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127437 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I disagree. The upwards slope is still 5% regardless of the speed of the treadmill. It is climbing faster because the cart is rolling faster.
Galilean transformations are relatively simple. Are you familiar with them? No square root factors. All you do is to add a constant velocity to any frame of reference.
Energy is added to the system by the treadmill, what exactly do you think this demonstrates?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127438 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
Here is a shot of the small cart on the treadmill with a closeup of a level. It is flat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =1BRvYZd81AQXX
This one behaves more intuitively, the system loses energy due to mechanical inefficiencies and the cart moves in the direction of the treadmill.

I see nothing here to indicate the cart would be capable of moving faster then the wind directly down wind.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127439 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Energy is added to the system by the treadmill, what exactly do you think this demonstrates?
No, no , no.

The treadmill is the same as the cart moving directly downwind at the speed of the wind. If it advances that shows it is going faster than the wind, if it falls back it is going slower than the wind.

That is why I asked you if you understood the concept of a Galilean transformation and why this is the same as a cart on the road.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#127440 Apr 19, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Sodom & Gomorrah found! This righteous judgement of sin and destruction of these cities actually happened and in addition to Biblical, has archaeological evidence to support it.
"The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a certain fact in history. The Genesis account is in narrative form and is alluded to by several Old Testament writers. Jesus Himself obviously believed it and in fact was an eyewitness as the pre-incarnate Lord." (See Matthew 11:23-24; Mark 6:11; Luke 10:12 and 17:28-32.
http://www.icr.org/article/7312/
I'm not at all surprised, everything in the OT will be proven, including the destruction of Babylon and Noahs' flood.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127441 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, no , no.
The treadmill is the same as the cart moving directly downwind at the speed of the wind. If it advances that shows it is going faster than the wind, if it falls back it is going slower than the wind.
That is why I asked you if you understood the concept of a Galilean transformation and why this is the same as a cart on the road.
In that particular video with the level, the cart consistently fell back. In the other video with no level, the cart appeared to move forward. Yes, I am familiar with Galilean transforms and I know they are accurate within the appropriate constraints.

Do you believe cell phones can pop popcorn? There is a video that shows it happening.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#127442 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah can be certain fact in history?
There are no reliable books that even mention the towns. What historians support these claims?
And Gays aren't the only ones that practice Sodomy. Lots of women like it in the backdoor. And technically fellatio is sodomy too. Don't tell me that you have never received a blow job, and if you haven't I almost feel sorry for you.
Fellatio is sodomy, and that's what Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127443 Apr 19, 2013
This site shows the simplest of Galilean transformations, which is exactly what we have with the cart on a treadmill:

http://psi.phys.wits.ac.za/teaching/Connell/p...

Let's look at a cart running directly downwind at the speed of the wind and how that transfers to a cart on a treadmill.

Let's say the cart is running directly east at 10 mph and the wind is blowing directly east at 10 mph. An observer on the cart will measure a wind speed of zero. He will see the ground moving underneath him at ten mph to the west. An observer on the ground will measure the wind blowing over the ground at 10 mph to the east and see the cart moving at ten mph to the east.

Now lets move them both to a treadmill with the track moving to the west at 10 mph and hold the cart until it is going at the speed of the belt. An observer on the cart will measure a wind speed of zero and see the ground (which is the belt) moving underneath him at 10 mph. Now let's see what an observer on the belt observes. The belt again is the ground equivalent. He measures a wind of 10 mph to the east and sees the cart moving to the east at 10 mph.

The two situations are equivalent. If the cart can go faster than the wind it will advance up the belt. If it cannot go as fast as the wind it will fall off the back of the belt. If it exactly matches the speed of the wind it will hover on the belt.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127444 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
In that particular video with the level, the cart consistently fell back. In the other video with no level, the cart appeared to move forward. Yes, I am familiar with Galilean transforms and I know they are accurate within the appropriate constraints.
Do you believe cell phones can pop popcorn? There is a video that shows it happening.
No, it constant advanced up the belt. It was going faster than the belt. I just clicked on the link and watched it again.

No, cell phones cannot pop popcorn. I know it is possible to fake things on YouTube. It is not very easy to fool people who understand sailing. NALSA is the same group that certified the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle. The regularly race wind driven vehicles. This has been written up on quite a few e-zines. Some of which originally said this was impossible. And quite a few school kids have also done this as a school science fair project.

I can even site an MIT expert in aerodynamics who has said that the problem is trivial.

What more do you need?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#127445 Apr 19, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Fellatio is sodomy, and that's what Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden.
You mean she ate the snake and not the apple?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127446 Apr 19, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Fellatio is sodomy, and that's what Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden.
Adam and Eve were a myth, as was Noah's Ark and in fact the whole two first books of the Bible.

Why do you believe that nonsense?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127447 Apr 19, 2013
If you want something more technical here is a link to a paper written by Mark Drela of MIT:

http://blueplanettimes.com/wp-content/uploads...

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#127448 Apr 19, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not at all surprised, everything in the OT will be proven, including the destruction of Babylon and Noahs' flood.
Um, then why does all evidence contradict such stories?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127449 Apr 19, 2013
And another very nice article on it from the number two NALSA observer:

http://blueplanettimes.com/...

Like I said, it is a brain twister. But once you understand it it is not such a hard idea.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127450 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it constant advanced up the belt. It was going faster than the belt. I just clicked on the link and watched it again.
No, cell phones cannot pop popcorn. I know it is possible to fake things on YouTube. It is not very easy to fool people who understand sailing. NALSA is the same group that certified the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle. The regularly race wind driven vehicles. This has been written up on quite a few e-zines. Some of which originally said this was impossible. And quite a few school kids have also done this as a school science fair project.
I can even site an MIT expert in aerodynamics who has said that the problem is trivial.
What more do you need?
I can't really tell which way the treadmill is running and I don't believe you can either. So, do you think cell phones can pop popcorn?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127451 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it constant advanced up the belt. It was going faster than the belt. I just clicked on the link and watched it again.
No, cell phones cannot pop popcorn. I know it is possible to fake things on YouTube. It is not very easy to fool people who understand sailing. NALSA is the same group that certified the Greenbird, the world's fastest sailing vehicle. The regularly race wind driven vehicles. This has been written up on quite a few e-zines. Some of which originally said this was impossible. And quite a few school kids have also done this as a school science fair project.
I can even site an MIT expert in aerodynamics who has said that the problem is trivial.
What more do you need?
OIC you did answer about the cell phones, but I still don't think you can really tell in the video which way the treadmill was running. You do know there are people who delight in convincing others of absurdities, right?

Have you done this experiment yourself? Or are you just relying on hearsay and videos?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127452 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And another very nice article on it from the number two NALSA observer:
http://blueplanettimes.com/...
Like I said, it is a brain twister. But once you understand it it is not such a hard idea.
Argument on authority is a fallacy, you know that right?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127453 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Argument on authority is a fallacy, you know that right?
No, it is not. It is a fallacy only when the authority is not an authority of the subject being discussed.

For example you would not use a rocket scientist as an authority when arguing about cars. If you were arguing about rockets you would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_au...

On aerodynamics Drela is legitimate expert on the subject.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#127454 Apr 19, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't really tell which way the treadmill is running and I don't believe you can either. So, do you think cell phones can pop popcorn?
I can and I know which way the treadmill runs.

Have you ever run on a treadmill? They all run the same way. When you stand on them you face the controls and they run in the direction away from the controls. That way you can run forwards and control your speed.

The cart advances up the treadmill.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#127455 Apr 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I can and I know which way the treadmill runs.
Have you ever run on a treadmill? They all run the same way. When you stand on them you face the controls and they run in the direction away from the controls. That way you can run forwards and control your speed.
The cart advances up the treadmill.
Wow!! This is the first I've heard that treadmills can not be modified. Thanks for the info!!

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