Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178616 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#126393 Apr 5, 2013
susanblange wrote:
I had a theophany also almost 30 years ago, it was similar to my vision of death but was not visual and was so profound, I don't remember the associations, it just ran thru my mind. I think it started with the sun and the conclusion was that God was literally a rock. "The Lord is my rock, my strength and my song". "Make a joyful noise to the Lord all the earth, make a loud noise and rejoice and sing praise" "Behold their sitting down and their rising up, I am their musick" [sic]
I don't suppose that God being literally a rock is any more nutty than the notion that God is literally his own Son. So right on par with the general madness of religion. A-plus.

“There is no such thing”

Level 3

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#126394 Apr 5, 2013
http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2010/08/w...
Why psychotic patients with religious delusions are harder to cure.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#126395 Apr 5, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Unlike other people on this forum, I am not making any claims. My thoughts and beliefs are engraved in stone like the 10 commandments and will never change, I never doubt and neither does my Jewish psychiatrist of 36 years, we are a team. He knows me better than I know myself and he was the first convert. "Zion shall be redeemed with judgment and her converts with righteousness" Is. 1:27 "Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed" Is. 6:10. The first day of the Lord, VWD Day should come by the end of 2014. It's been 30 years.
Total contradiction?

“not making any claims”

then in the very next sentence

“My thoughts and beliefs are engraved in stone”

Surely this is a claim? So you lied…

So given that you have written an obvious lie here does this mean that any trust you thought you engendered is blown out the window?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#126396 Apr 5, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
How is it that the oldest bat fossil looks exactly - that's right, I said EXACTLY - like a modern bat?
One thousand fossil bats found, "dated" from 52 MYA (from just one museum alone in Germany).
All fossilized bats discovered to date are fully developed and capable of flying.
It is not right to blame the lack of bat ancestors on the processes of fossilization since millions of other fossils, even soft bodied fossils, from the time period and prior have been fossilized and collected by museums.
Again, ALL fossil bats discovered - thousands of them - are of fully formed bats that look exactly like modern bats and none of them - zero - are of predicted evolutionary ancestors.
The bat is just one example of this. There are hundreds of similar examples like this, and no examples of the predicted evolutionary ancestors for any creature. Nothing! Invertebrates, fish, bats, sea lions, reptiles, dinosaurs, whales, birds, plants; nothing!
How does a rational person keep his/her faith in macroevolution in the face of these facts?
Perhaps because the bat has no need to evolve past it’s current state.

Just because you don’t understand evolution does not mean evolution does not happen, it just means you don’t understand

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#126397 Apr 5, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Most likely Schizophreniform Disorder.
http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/ment...
Lil Ticked wrote:
http://epiphenom.fieldofscienc e.com/2010/08/why-psychotic-pa tients-with-religious.html
Why psychotic patients with religious delusions are harder to cure.
I didn’t realise you could be so hypocritical

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

North Miami Beach, FL

#126398 Apr 5, 2013
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps I can help you to understand...
If a fossil of something that looks like a bat is found, it is identified as a fossilized bat. If it doesn't look like a bat, it's identified as a fossilized something else. It's not surprising (to anyone but you, evidentially) that there are not things called fossilized bats that are fossils of things that don't look like bats.
SO you already knew there would be no fossil evidence to support macroevolution? So then my question changes to how could rational people believe in a theory despite no fossil evidence to date and no expectations of ever finding any?

“There is no such thing”

Level 3

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#126399 Apr 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
I didn’t realise you could be so hypocritical
How so?

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

North Miami Beach, FL

#126400 Apr 5, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, genius, that would mean that bats similar to modern bats evolved at least 52 million years ago. Fits just fine within the nested hierarchy.
Now explain why there are no bats in the nine tenths of the geological record BEFORE 52 million years ago (taking the Cambrian as the baseline).
Yes, these bats show up at least 70 million years AFTER the earliest placental mammals, and about 180 million years after the mammal-like reptiles.
As for your claim that there are no good intermediates for any modern creatures, its simply ridiculous, and you know it. Your gimmick is simple: "if its similar, it THE SAME and if its slightly different ITS JUST DIFFERENT", completely ignoring the easily observed progression in case after case. This silliness reaches its nadir with the arguments by baraminologists as to whether Adam was a Homo sapiens, heidelburgnsis, antecessor, or even erectus....there is no line, just a continuum.
But the fact remains there is no predicted evolutionary ancestors of modern bats in the fossil record. Pease don't shoot the messenger! If this science is wrong, then prove it.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#126401 Apr 5, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
How is it that the oldest bat fossil looks exactly - that's right, I said EXACTLY - like a modern bat?
One thousand fossil bats found, "dated" from 52 MYA (from just one museum alone in Germany).
All fossilized bats discovered to date are fully developed and capable of flying.
It is not right to blame the lack of bat ancestors on the processes of fossilization since millions of other fossils, even soft bodied fossils, from the time period and prior have been fossilized and collected by museums.
Again, ALL fossil bats discovered - thousands of them - are of fully formed bats that look exactly like modern bats and none of them - zero - are of predicted evolutionary ancestors.
The bat is just one example of this. There are hundreds of similar examples like this, and no examples of the predicted evolutionary ancestors for any creature. Nothing! Invertebrates, fish, bats, sea lions, reptiles, dinosaurs, whales, birds, plants; nothing!
How does a rational person keep his/her faith in macroevolution in the face of these facts?
How is it that you look exactly like a Cro Magnon?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#126402 Apr 5, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>How so?
You ranted about my citing nano no mates illnesses yet you happily provide links and comment on someone else’s illness
defender

United States

#126403 Apr 5, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>In the OT, false gods and idols are called "devils". The Devil is a father and a son, Satan (Adam) and Lucifer (Jesus). This doctrine is acknowledged in the NT, Jesus is called the second or seed of Adam. Not only is Satan jesus father, he is also jesus god, he took satans offer of the world if he would serve him. Jesus came out preaching the kingdom of God and it still hasn't come. Christians are bent on evangelizing the world, and it will come down to Jesus vs. the Messiah and they will fight for mens souls and spirits. If they cling to their idols til the end they won't make it. An idol is a physical representation of a god, like the images of Jesus on the cross.
Crazy... Bat shit crazy... People will believe anything... All you gotta do is tell them...

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#126404 Apr 5, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
But the fact remains there is no predicted evolutionary ancestors of modern bats in the fossil record. Pease don't shoot the messenger! If this science is wrong, then prove it.
You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill you don’t know anything about

What does this prove?

It proves that bats have not evolved much in recent (geological) times, neither have many other animals. This proves that as far as their fossils are concerned that they have evolved enough to fit the niche into which they fit. Now given those fossil remains how do you know what frequency range of sound these ancestral bats were attuned to? Do you know if their location ability has evolved during the last 50 million years? Do you know if the tolerance to different food sources has evolved over the last 50 million years? You don’t know so you point is what?

BTY What are these predicted evolutionary ancestors you cite? It is predated that animals that perfectly fit their environmental niche have no need to evolve.

“There is no such thing”

Level 3

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#126405 Apr 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You ranted about my citing nano no mates illnesses yet you happily provide links and comment on someone else’s illness
I was not attempting to use the illness as an insult. The person claimed to see and talk to god for a certain period of time so I posted a link to an alternative (temporary) illness as that proposed by the other commenter. I also posted a link describing how those whose psychosis is grounded in religion are harder to cure than those whose are not. No attempt at insult just sharing information.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#126406 Apr 5, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Crazy... Bat shit crazy... People will believe anything... All you gotta do is tell them...
... That if you believe this book written by a bunch of sheep shaggers, and are really sorry when you die, then you will come back and live forever.

And if you don't believe their nonsense you will be tortured forever.

Yup, tell some people batshit crazy stuff like that and you could fool, oh I don't know, at least one third of the population of the world.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#126407 Apr 5, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
How is it that you look exactly like a Cro Magnon?
Because macroevolution never happened? And "Cro Magnon" is just a distant relative of mine?

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#126408 Apr 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill you don’t know anything about
What does this prove?
It proves that bats have not evolved much in recent (geological) times, neither have many other animals. This proves that as far as their fossils are concerned that they have evolved enough to fit the niche into which they fit. Now given those fossil remains how do you know what frequency range of sound these ancestral bats were attuned to? Do you know if their location ability has evolved during the last 50 million years? Do you know if the tolerance to different food sources has evolved over the last 50 million years? You don’t know so you point is what?
BTY What are these predicted evolutionary ancestors you cite? It is predated that animals that perfectly fit their environmental niche have no need to evolve.
And no predicted evolutionary ancestors of modern bats but thousands of modern looking bat fossils. This is the case with ALL organisms. When are you going to realize that there never was ANY macroevolution? How many fossils do we need? A billion that look just like the modern equivelent with zero fossils of predicted evolutionary ancestors? I mean, what's it going to take to convince you?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126409 Apr 5, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You nicely illustrate the madness that creates religions.
Madness can also be caused by intellect or creativity, and the Messiah is supposed to be mental. Ps. 38:7 "For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease and there is no soundness in my flesh"
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126410 Apr 5, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Total contradiction?
“not making any claims”
then in the very next sentence
“My thoughts and beliefs are engraved in stone”
Surely this is a claim? So you lied…
So given that you have written an obvious lie here does this mean that any trust you thought you engendered is blown out the window?
You may perceive that as a lie but I don't, I have no need or reason to lie, give me a reason to lie. I'm just saying I have a comprehensive understanding of the Hebrew scriptures. The movie "Desperately seeking Susan" was about what happened 30 years ago when God called me.
Tyler in Wonderland

Philadelphia, PA

#126411 Apr 5, 2013
Well here's an interesting article...
http://www.the-scientist.com/...
No mention of bats I'm afraid, but I understand coelocanths were popular around here for a while...?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126412 Apr 5, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Crazy... Bat shit crazy... People will believe anything... All you gotta do is tell them...
" We're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy" Seal. Don't you think all this God and Messiah stuff is total insanity? "Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful" Supertramp

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