Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178661 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#126245 Apr 1, 2013
Of course HTS I mean possible recipes for cytochrome-c, as only a tiny subset of these are actually found in nature - the number is so huge. But we could take just about any one of the 10^93 possible variations and stick it in you and you would work just the same.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#126246 Apr 1, 2013
susanblange wrote:
How can anybody not believe in intelligent design? The complexity of animal life cries out that there's a creator. I could understand evolution itself if there was only plant life but how do you explain the development of complex organs like eyesight, hearing, and especially the brain? God said the atheist is a fool and they are very ignorant there is a God and if you don't believe it, that's the belief that will get you sent to hell.
Good grief. That is the exact, fundamental argument that Origin of the Species overturned 150 years ago. And early in his career, Darwin was just as convinced as you that ordered complexity = intelligent design. He could quote large chunks of Reverend Paley's book verbatim - Paley being the father of the "if I found a watch in the field I would know someone designed it" argument.

Then Darwin found that it was not true. He found that intelligent design is just one way to achieve ordered complexity. He showed the mechanism. He made predictions based on this hypothesis.

And wherever we look, we find those predictions to be borne out by the physical evidence. Do you know Darwin predicted the existence of ape/human intermediates before a single one had been found? And now we have upwards of 22 species of ape human intermediates found.

Evolution both predicted these and explains them. Creationism did not expect them and has no explanation for them.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#126247 Apr 2, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well actually it can, and we know this for the simple reason that a huge number of versions of various proteins work just as well as each other. So specificity is not nearly as high as you imagine. There are an estimated 10^93 different recipes for cytochrome-c alone, and its a relatively small protein. That is one reason WHY we can track the random changes across the living kingdoms for this protein and see how the variation follows a nested hierarchy.
What "law of genetics" have I imagined?
OK, let's look at cytochrome C. You said that there are 10^93 different "recipes"...those would be stereoisomers... not functional iterations of cytochrome C.
If you think that a huge number of iterations would be functional... how big of a number are you imagining?
If you think that one trillion trillion different variations of cytochrome C are functional, you've increased your probability from 10^-93 to 10^-69... still an impossible number. No matter how many functional variations you imagine to exist, there is an infinitely greater number of dysfunctional variations.
Mugwump

London, UK

#126248 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
. No matter how many functional variations you imagine to exist, there is an infinitely greater number of dysfunctional variations.
What ?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126249 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You have imagined laws of genetics that don't exist. You are failing to acknowledge the sophistication of the genetic code. DNA is a multidimensional code that exhibits language type functionality with multiple levels of overlapping messages, intricate algorithms, and data compression. It cannot be changed by rearranging a few nucleotides or base substitutions. Yes, antibiotic resistance in bacteria can evolve one nucleotide at a time. However, the capacity of a spider to spin a web cannot be reduced to incremental changes as you imagine.
You're guilty of the same fallacy of falsely extrapolating simplicity to complexity.

What a story teller you are.

Without qualifiers and a noun in place "complexity" = "simplicity".

Is a rock complex?
Which is more complex an igneous or sedimentary rock?
Which is more simple, a male brain or a female brain?

Meaningless.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126250 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Dogen, does it make you feel smart to post such worthless, meaningless posts?
Do you actually expect anyone to take your opinion seriously, when all you offer is the same recycled atheist BS?

HTS, does it make you feel smart to post such worthless, meaningless posts?
Do you actually expect anyone to take your opinion seriously, when all you offer is the same recycled atheist BS?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126251 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, let's look at cytochrome C. You said that there are 10^93 different "recipes"...those would be stereoisomers... not functional iterations of cytochrome C.
If you think that a huge number of iterations would be functional... how big of a number are you imagining?
If you think that one trillion trillion different variations of cytochrome C are functional, you've increased your probability from 10^-93 to 10^-69... still an impossible number. No matter how many functional variations you imagine to exist, there is an infinitely greater number of dysfunctional variations.

Refutation which you won't read:
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/1490


Why don't you learn science instead of just making it up?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126252 Apr 2, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
What ?

I know. Just batshit crazy!
HTS

Williston, ND

#126253 Apr 2, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Refutation which you won't read:
http://ncse.com/book/export/html/1490
Why don't you learn science instead of just making it up?
Predictably, Dogen, you didn't post anything relevant due to your lack of understanding of scientific logic.
I'm well aware of molecular homology, and of the fairytales that have been fabricated to propp up evolution.
Molecular homology is entirely consistent with ID.
You and Chimney have failed to explain how cytochrome C could have evolved in the first place,
Chimney suggested that many contingencies were possible...fair enough. But infinite possibilities are not.
HTS

Williston, ND

#126254 Apr 2, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What a story teller you are.
Without qualifiers and a noun in place "complexity" = "simplicity".
Is a rock complex?
Which is more complex an igneous or sedimentary rock?
Which is more simple, a male brain or a female brain?
Meaningless.
As usual, Dogen,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from talkorigins?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126255 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
How can anybody not believe in intelligent design? The complexity of animal life cries out that there's a creator. I could understand evolution itself if there was only plant life but how do you explain the development of complex organs like eyesight, hearing, and especially the brain? God said the atheist is a fool and they are very ignorant there is a God and if you don't believe it, that's the belief that will get you sent to hell.
For your thesis to be accepted uniformly, you will first have to prove there is a being capable of being this "Designer". If all you got is 2000 yo goat herder assertions, you've basically got nothing and it must be assumed all this came to be via natural processes. So far, no "magic" has been discovered in nature.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#126256 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, Dogen,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from talkorigins?
No, as usual he is correct. You might as well claim that life is to froompy to have evolved.

Can you deny that life is froompy or not?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#126257 Apr 2, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, as usual he is correct. You might as well claim that life is to froompy to have evolved.
Can you deny that life is froompy or not?
Oh, I don't know. Life OFTEN seems way to froompy to me. Not sure why I go on living. I guess if I believed in Cheeses, I could manage all this froompiness.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126258 Apr 2, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
For your thesis to be accepted uniformly, you will first have to prove there is a being capable of being this "Designer". If all you got is 2000 yo goat herder assertions, you've basically got nothing and it must be assumed all this came to be via natural processes. So far, no "magic" has been discovered in nature.
Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#126259 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.
If I recall my Sunday School lessons correctly, didn't the Egyptian sorcerer conjure a LIVE snake out of a staff?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126260 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.
Religibable ... you can't prove your God, Moses, sorcerers or magic ever existed. All there is ... can be found in and explained by Nature.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126261 Apr 2, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, as usual he is correct. You might as well claim that life is to froompy to have evolved.
Can you deny that life is froompy or not?
Life is not "froompy". It is "firpy". I said so, that makes it true, so there!

Hey! If this logic works for the fundies .. why not?
Elohim

Branford, CT

#126262 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, Dogen,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from talkorigins?
As usual, HTS,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from creationism.com ?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126263 Apr 2, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
If I recall my Sunday School lessons correctly, didn't the Egyptian sorcerer conjure a LIVE snake out of a staff?
Yes, but Moses serpent ate it.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126264 Apr 2, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Religibable ... you can't prove your God, Moses, sorcerers or magic ever existed. All there is ... can be found in and explained by Nature.
Is it natural for a body that's been dead for 3 or 4 days to suddenly get up and walk? If so. why do we embalm people after they've been dead for a matter of hours and then cremate and/or bury them?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 5 min dirtclod 20,459
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 5 min DanFromSmithville 171,533
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 50 min MikeF 142,471
News Pope Francis Affirms Evolution and Big Bang Theory 8 hr Paul Porter1 199
Darwinism: Science or Philosophy? 9 hr Zog Has-fallen 1
Terms need to be defined better 17 hr MikeF 7
News Bobby Jindal: I'm fine with teaching creationis... (Apr '13) Mon GTID62 247
More from around the web