Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179697 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#126259 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.
If I recall my Sunday School lessons correctly, didn't the Egyptian sorcerer conjure a LIVE snake out of a staff?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126260 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.
Religibable ... you can't prove your God, Moses, sorcerers or magic ever existed. All there is ... can be found in and explained by Nature.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126261 Apr 2, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No, as usual he is correct. You might as well claim that life is to froompy to have evolved.
Can you deny that life is froompy or not?
Life is not "froompy". It is "firpy". I said so, that makes it true, so there!

Hey! If this logic works for the fundies .. why not?
Elohim

Branford, CT

#126262 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, Dogen,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from talkorigins?
As usual, HTS,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from creationism.com ?
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126263 Apr 2, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
If I recall my Sunday School lessons correctly, didn't the Egyptian sorcerer conjure a LIVE snake out of a staff?
Yes, but Moses serpent ate it.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126264 Apr 2, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Religibable ... you can't prove your God, Moses, sorcerers or magic ever existed. All there is ... can be found in and explained by Nature.
Is it natural for a body that's been dead for 3 or 4 days to suddenly get up and walk? If so. why do we embalm people after they've been dead for a matter of hours and then cremate and/or bury them?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#126265 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, but Moses serpent ate it.
But you said:
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.
....so apparently Egyptian sorcerers COULD duplicate life.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126266 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Is it natural for a body that's been dead for 3 or 4 days to suddenly get up and walk? If so. why do we embalm people after they've been dead for a matter of hours and then cremate and/or bury them?
No, but it IS very natural for people to tell tall tales and pass them off as fact. This is known as "Folklore" and you believe a 2000 yo version first dreamed up by goat herders.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#126267 Apr 2, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You probably also KNOW there is a magical leprechaun with a live dacshund stuck in his nose. That doesn't make it true and it makes no difference to anyone anywhere anytime.
My country and your's were founded on Christianity and not leprechauns with live dacshunds up their noses

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#126268 Apr 2, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but it IS very natural for people to tell tall tales and pass them off as fact. This is known as "Folklore" and you believe a 2000 yo version first dreamed up by goat herders.
How about *THIS* for an alternate ending to the new testiment:

<<begin cut/paste>>

Tomb of Jesus Christ (in Japan)

Shing&#333; village (Japan) is the location of what is purported to be the last resting place of Jesus, located in the "Tomb of Jesus" (Kirisuto no haka), and the residence of Jesus' last descendants, the family of Sajiro Sawaguchi.[1] According to the Sawaguchi family's claims, Jesus Christ did not die on the cross at Golgotha. Instead his brother, Isukiri,[2] took his place on the cross, while Jesus fled across Siberia to Mutsu Province, in northern Japan. Once in Japan, he became a rice farmer, married, and raised a family with three daughters near what is now Shing&#333;. While in Japan, it is asserted that he traveled, learned, and eventually died at the age of 106. His body was exposed on a hilltop for four years. According to the customs of the time, Jesus' bones were collected, bundled, and buried in the mound purported to be the grave of Jesus Christ.[3][4]

Another mound near the alleged grave of Jesus is said to contain an ear of the brother of Jesus and a lock of hair from Mary, the mother of Jesus, the only relics of his family Jesus could carry when he fled Judaea.[5] The claims started in 1933 after the discovery of supposed "ancient Hebrew documents detailing Jesus' life and death in Japan" [6] that was supposedly the testament of Jesus. These documents were allegedly seized by the Japanese authorities and taken to Tokyo shortly before World War II and have not been seen since.[7]

The English text on the sign explaining the legend of the Tomb of Christ reads <<picture shown>>:

"When Jesus Christ was 21 years old, he came to Japan and pursued knowledge of divinity for 12 years. He went back to Judea at age 33 and engaged in his mission. However, at that time, people in Judea would not accept Christ's preaching. Instead, they arrested him and tried to crucify him on a cross. His younger brother, Isukiri casually took Christ's place and ended his life on the cross. Christ, who escaped the crucifixion, went through the ups and downs of travel, and again came to Japan. He settled right here in what is now called Herai Village, and died at the age of 106. On this holy ground, there is dedicated a burial mound on the right to deify Christ, and a grave on the left to deify Isukiri."

<<end cut/paste>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shing%C5%8D,_Aom...
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#126269 Apr 2, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
You are SO unscientific and this just canine religion you are worshiping
Leprechaun are small
Dachshunds are big
So how could a dachshund get up a leprechauns nose?
About as relevant as a creationist argument :-)
You're doing well Mugwump....you're doing well

Now all you have to do is leave Pudsey....I don't like the sound of that place....

Become a creationist Christian....

And all will be well with you....FINALLY

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126270 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Predictably, Dogen, you didn't post anything relevant due to your lack of understanding of scientific logic.
I'm well aware of molecular homology, and of the fairytales that have been fabricated to propp up evolution.
Molecular homology is entirely consistent with ID.
You and Chimney have failed to explain how cytochrome C could have evolved in the first place,
Chimney suggested that many contingencies were possible...fair enough. But infinite possibilities are not.

As you don't have any knowledge or understanding of science, you taking shots at my understanding comes up empty.

molecular homology is well supported science.

molecular homology does not support I.D.

Nothing supports I.D.(at least to date).

P1. Cyt-C Exists.
P2. Anything that exists is possible.
C: Therefore: Cyt-C is possible.

We call that "scientific logic".

Schooled!

Yawn....

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126271 Apr 2, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, Dogen,... You vainly attempt to muddy the water with meaningless distractions. Is it possible for you to at least once think on your own rather than blindly regurgitate the recycled BS from talkorigins?

So, again you have nothing to respond with yet that does not stop you from typing nonsense on the internet for all to see.

Here is a repeat of your earlier lesson.

You will keep taking test till you pass.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What a story teller you are.
Without qualifiers and a noun in place "complexity" = "simplicity".
Is a rock complex?
Which is more complex an igneous or sedimentary rock?
Which is more simple, a male brain or a female brain?
Meaningless.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#126272 Apr 2, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
You're doing well Mugwump....you're doing well
Now all you have to do is leave Pudsey....I don't like the sound of that place....
Become a creationist Christian....
And all will be well with you....FINALLY
Actually, live about 10 miles down the road - GPS ain't all that.

And become a creationist ? Nah find it hard to lie so much without shame

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126273 Apr 2, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
My country and your's were founded on Christianity and not leprechauns with live dacshunds up their noses
You mean the country founded by these guys?

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
Thomas Jefferson

"lighthouses are more useful than churches" - Benjamin Franklin

The same guys who came up with the first amendment;

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

AND the same guys who in the Treaty of Tripoli said,

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Looks to me that you are lying again Godbutt.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126274 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Magic is from the dark side of the force, the occult. The sorcerers in Egypt could duplicate almost everything Moses and God did, except when it came to life and death, that belongs solely to God. There is no "magic" in what God did, it was miraculous.

The height of rationalization is the redefinition of words to mean what the rationalizer needs them to mean.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126275 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, but Moses serpent ate it.

Of course. His people wrote the story!

Duh!

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126276 Apr 2, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
How about *THIS* for an alternate ending to the new testiment:
<<begin cut/paste>>
Tomb of Jesus Christ (in Japan)
Shing&#333; village (Japan) is the location of what is purported to be the last resting place of Jesus, located in the "Tomb of Jesus" (Kirisuto no haka), and the residence of Jesus' last descendants, the family of Sajiro Sawaguchi.[1] According to the Sawaguchi family's claims, Jesus Christ did not die on the cross at Golgotha. Instead his brother, Isukiri,[2] took his place on the cross, while Jesus fled across Siberia to Mutsu Province, in northern Japan. Once in Japan, he became a rice farmer, married, and raised a family with three daughters near what is now Shing&#333;. While in Japan, it is asserted that he traveled, learned, and eventually died at the age of 106. His body was exposed on a hilltop for four years. According to the customs of the time, Jesus' bones were collected, bundled, and buried in the mound purported to be the grave of Jesus Christ.[3][4]
Another mound near the alleged grave of Jesus is said to contain an ear of the brother of Jesus and a lock of hair from Mary, the mother of Jesus, the only relics of his family Jesus could carry when he fled Judaea.[5] The claims started in 1933 after the discovery of supposed "ancient Hebrew documents detailing Jesus' life and death in Japan" [6] that was supposedly the testament of Jesus. These documents were allegedly seized by the Japanese authorities and taken to Tokyo shortly before World War II and have not been seen since.[7]
The English text on the sign explaining the legend of the Tomb of Christ reads <<picture shown>>:
"When Jesus Christ was 21 years old, he came to Japan and pursued knowledge of divinity for 12 years. He went back to Judea at age 33 and engaged in his mission. However, at that time, people in Judea would not accept Christ's preaching. Instead, they arrested him and tried to crucify him on a cross. His younger brother, Isukiri casually took Christ's place and ended his life on the cross. Christ, who escaped the crucifixion, went through the ups and downs of travel, and again came to Japan. He settled right here in what is now called Herai Village, and died at the age of 106. On this holy ground, there is dedicated a burial mound on the right to deify Christ, and a grave on the left to deify Isukiri."
<<end cut/paste>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shing%C5%8D,_Aom...
In some of my earlier travels, I've had occasion to visit Muslim "museums" .... invariably, there were "foot prints of Mohammed", "hair clippings of Mohammed" and various other Mohammed artifacts including shoes and other bits of clothing.

I think it fascinating that Mohammed had a calico beard and several different sized feet.
Russell

Canberra, Australia

#126277 Apr 2, 2013
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
Biologists create self-replicating RNA molecule
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharps...
Do you even understand what has been done?

"tC19 showed a template sequence dependence incompatible with it being a general RNA polymerase ribozyme. Selection for template sequence generality was done starting with a 7.5*107 member library of randomized R18 variants. This library was subjected to CBT using two sequence distinct RNA primer extension templates, which yielded Z, a ribozyme harbouring four point mutations that together decreased template restrictions. These mutations were combined with those of tC19 thus generating tC19Z. tC19Z showed a further reduced average error rate of 8.8*10&#8722;3 per nucleotide position, and also proved superior to R18, C19, Z and tC19 ribozymes in terms of RNA polymerase activity and generality (although its potential in producing RNAs &#8805; 95 nt was not reported). tC19Z was used to produce a 24 nt hammerhead minizyme by primer extension of a 5&#8242; fluorescein isothiocyanate (FITC) labeled primer. When challenged with its substrate, this FITC labeled RNA minizyme proved cleavage proficient to the same extent as the FITC-labeled control hammerhead ribozyme made by solid phase synthesis. These results demonstrate replication combined with conservation of function—a probable key feature of an ancient RNA based self-sustained system.

The new ribozymes described differ from present day protein RNA polymerases in several respects, as well as lacking protein. Cellular RNA polymerases are efficient showing both a high propensity to remain associated with its transcript in the elongation complex (processivity) and rapid elongation rates of typically &#8764;200 nt/s (at 37°C) in the case of bacteriophage RNA polymerases. In comparison, tC19 synthesized RNAs of maximally 95 nt in a typical period of 24 h corresponding to &#8764;1*10&#8722;3 nt/s (at 17°C). Cellular RNA polymerases also show a higher fidelity (in part due to proofreading) with an estimated error rate of <10&#8722;5 per nucleotide position for bacterial and eukaryotic RNA polymerases.3 Finally, cellular RNA polymerases initiate RNA synthesis at the site of template recognition (the promoter), do not require a primer, and employ a double-stranded DNA template. Perhaps the closest parallel to the described ribozymes is found among RNA vira that express RNA dependent RNA polymerases, some of which utilize a primer.

A truly self-replicating RNA polymerase ribozyme based system would require that the ribozyme fully replicate its own RNA gene (unlike present day DNA dependent RNA polymerases that do not transcribe the promoter region), including any ssC19 type docking sites on the template. The encoding RNA gene would have to be relatively unstructured to allow efficient primer extension of the entire sequence, and there would need to be a mechanism for strand separation to enable replicative turnover. Even if these requirements can be met, the present ribozymes capable of maximally synthesizing a 95 nt RNA transcript would still fall short of copying their own gene of 187 nt thus precluding their immediate use for self-sustained replication. Recognising that complex requirements remain to achieve a fully operative self replicating system, it is appropriate to praise the achievements of Wochner et al. 2011,1 which on the tenth anniversary of the birth of R182 have provided a great technological leap and renewed interest in a fascinating and challenging area."

Don't just buy into the 'popular science' hype...

READ!

Engineering a synthetic ribozyme capable of replicating half the length of a RNA strand is NOT evidence of abiogenesis invoking a RNA world

AND, tC19Z cannot synthesize something of its own size in a reasonable amount of time.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3...

Grow up and grow a brain

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126278 Apr 2, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Is it natural for a body that's been dead for 3 or 4 days to suddenly get up and walk? If so. why do we embalm people after they've been dead for a matter of hours and then cremate and/or bury them?

No, but it is pretty natural for people to go into comas. There have been many stories of people being buried alive.

Partial list of gods raised from the dead:
Ugaritic
Baal
Melqart
Adonis
Eshmun
Osiris
Dumuzi.

Partial list of Non gods raised from the dead
Asclepius
Achillies
Alcmene
Castor
Heracles
Melicertes

Others were made immortal without having died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection#Anc...

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