Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 174,458

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#126190 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Dogen, can't you come up with some actual science?
Your repetitive parroting of the same irrelevant analogy is getting annoying.
I know it's become fashionable to compare evolution to gravity, but the comparison is asinine.
There's a difference...
Gravity is observed.
Evolution is not.
Rather than simply swallow all of the BS on talkorigins, I suggest that you for once engage in scientific study and logic.
It is clearly meant to.

Perhaps he will quit when you see that it is not an irrelevant analogy.

And lying does not help your case. Once again evolution is observed in the laboratory, in the field, in the fossil record, in the genome, and in dozens of different phylogenic trees.

The reason that evolution is observed in so many different places is one of the reasons that it is considered to be just as much of a fact as gravity is.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#126191 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you support teaching evolution in science classes?
Evolution has no more validity than the theory of the Easter bunny or Santa Claus.
The scientific method is trashed, probability concepts perverted, and ridiculous unwarranted extrapolations accepted without scrutiny.
Worst of all, data is systematically filtered, which constitutes scientific fraud.
In the end, the entire theory of evolution relies on the dogma: Regardless of the complexity, evolutiondidit with pixie dust.
Now you must know that you are lying. Even the conservative judge at the Dover trial knew by the end of the trial that evolution is science and ID is not.

You can repeat your lies as much as you like, you are not making Jesus happy.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#126192 Mar 31, 2013
And HTS, how are you going to recognize "real science" when you can't even recognize scientific evidence?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126193 Mar 31, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Asherah is a pagan tree god and I believe in the living God of Abraham. Lilith was Adams first wife and Eve was his daughter. Just because someone doesn't agree with you and tries to enlighten you doesn't make them crazy.

I know who Adams first wife was. You think I was born yesterday and believe that P.C. Eve crap? Eve was not their daughter.

Asherah was the consort of YHWH, AKA the God of Abraham.......

http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah

"In a nutshell, the hub-bub is about certain archaeological finds (most notably Kuntillet Ajrud and Khirbet el-Qom) bearing inscriptions that mention Yahweh by name and “his asherah”(or, more accurately,“asheratah”). The conclusion is drawn that Yahweh had a wife. But matters are far more complicated than that. Here are the options."

http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/03...

The quote and last reference link are more for fun than serious theology.


You DO know these are just old stories, right?

They are stories with meaning in them, not literal history.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126194 Mar 31, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Well put, HTS
Its his bible alright
I suspect he has printed off a copy of the whole site and carries it around with him like a security blanket of sorts
He probably has several copies of what he thinks are the "good bits"....
These he keeps under his pillow, no doubt
Which is why he is forced to sleep bolt upright
....and also why he is frazzled each morning and half asleep all day long

To date I have seen many creationist take pot shots at talkorigins, but they come up empty when it comes to disputing its science.

Try that and I will take you more serious.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126195 Mar 31, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because someone says things that you don't like, and to which you have no valid response, does not constitute lying on their part

No, I have DEMONSTRATED HTS to be lying on to many occasions.

He does not consider quote mining (aka lying) to be lying.



Valid responses are not the issue. Even when he is telling the truth he is a babbling idiot and refuting him is easy peasy. I have even seen him refute himself, which is an amusing creationist version of the hat trick.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126196 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
The creation of complexity through random mutations.

As "complexity" has been shown to be about as real as flying unicorns, even random mutation is overkill.

BTW, you are still using a straw-man version of evolution ("random mutations").

Why not try to say something intelligent or something you can support. Try to challenge me for a change. You can play with your little circle-jerk buddies some other time.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126197 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Dogen, can't you come up with some actual science?

Can you recognize actual science? Since the answer is obvious I really don't see the point.

Your repetitive parroting of the same irrelevant analogy is getting annoying.

I know it's become fashionable to compare ID to evolution, but the comparison is asinine.

There's a difference...

Evolution is observed.

ID is not.

Rather than simply swallow all of the BS on creation.com I suggest that you for once engage in scientific study and logic.

If you are capable of it.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126198 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you support teaching evolution in science classes?
Evolution has no more validity than the theory of the Easter bunny or Santa Claus.
The scientific method is trashed, probability concepts perverted, and ridiculous unwarranted extrapolations accepted without scrutiny.
Worst of all, data is systematically filtered, which constitutes scientific fraud.
In the end, the entire theory of evolution relies on the dogma: Regardless of the complexity, evolutiondidit with pixie dust.

Why would'nt you support teaching evolution in science classes?

Creationism has no more validity than the theory of the Easter bunny or Santa Claus.
The scientific method is trashed, probability concepts perverted, and ridiculous unwarranted extrapolations accepted without scrutiny.
Worst of all, data is nonexistent, which constitutes fraud.

In the end, the entire notion of creationism relies on the dogma: Regardless of the science, god done it with magic poofing.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126199 Mar 31, 2013
You're forgetting that God the Lord is a woman and there is no sex in heaven, God doesn't have a mistress and is not gay. Eve was Adams daughter, she was called woman because she was taken out of man, from his side. You probably just want to blame Eve for the apple incident when it was Adam that talked her into it.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#126200 Mar 31, 2013
susanblange wrote:
You're forgetting that God the Lord is a woman and there is no sex in heaven, God doesn't have a mistress and is not gay. Eve was Adams daughter, she was called woman because she was taken out of man, from his side. You probably just want to blame Eve for the apple incident when it was Adam that talked her into it.

Does anyone know where I can get a butterfly net?

I tried craigslist.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#126201 Mar 31, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
I think I have another contender for my list, "Reasons Why Evolution Never Happened". Let's see if it passes muster.
This is in regards to toolmaking that archaeologists find. We are expected to accept that the earlier stone implemnets that are rocks fashioned into a point date from 2.6 million years ago and that only after 2 million plus years or more, they only advanced to later shapes with edges? This does not seem to match what is observed in all of human history with regards to innovation and ingenuity, in any stretch of the imagination. After 50,000 generations, they were only able to go from early stone tools to middle stone age tools? There is nothing in recorded human history that would support such an assertion.
(Not to mention that even in evolutionary terms, there were numerous creatures with extrememly advanced systems for defense, predation, disguise, deception, partnerships, language, navigation, etc.?)
But early humans (supposedly the most advanced species in terms of evolution) spent over 2 million years and went through 50,000 generations and only managed to advance from stone tools with a tip to stone tools with an edge?
That makes no sense whatsover!
So, you're saying technological advancements didn't proceed according to your personal version of how they should have happened, therefore evolution never happened.

How many times do I have to say this? The universe is not obligated to conform itself to your ignorance.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#126203 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Neither evolution nor ID should be taught as science. Both are religion.
Every mechanism of evolution is not empirically observable in nature. How can you make such a statement?
Evolution is imagined to occur.
So, "imagine" something that explains the evidence better. I guarantee everyone will listen ... unless it starts with "Goddit with pixie dust".

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126204 Mar 31, 2013
susanblange wrote:
You're forgetting that God the Lord is a woman and there is no sex in heaven, God doesn't have a mistress and is not gay. Eve was Adams daughter, she was called woman because she was taken out of man, from his side. You probably just want to blame Eve for the apple incident when it was Adam that talked her into it.
Darth Vader was Luke's real father, and Gollum was originally a hobbit-like fellow called Smeagol who murdered his brother. The moral of the Star Belly Sneech story by Dr. Seuss is an anti-racist one. Achilles was the son of the river goddess Thetis who tried to make him invincible by dipping him in the river Styx as a baby, but she forgot the bit of his ankle covered by her own hand.

Blah blah blah.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126205 Mar 31, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything you've explained amounts to nothing more than bedtime stories founded on the assumption that the history of the earth confirms to your worldview.
It sounds impressive to the uninitiated...but beneath all of the facade you have nothing more than wild conjecture.
Yes, the quintessential creationist handwave.

Actually, every layer of the geologic column demands an explanation and the work of geologists over the last 200 years has been to research and work out explanations for the layers that fit with empirical science, not farcical ancient myths.

The conclusion is utterly clear. There is no way the observed layers could form in a year, or even in <10,000 years.

Well, only one - God put them there deliberately to fool us. That is your only alternative.

Time you learned that books can be faked more easily than empirical reality, and if there is God, all of nature is his canvas, not one little book of myths written by scientifically ignorant ancients.

You keep trying to equate evolution with atheism, but your shoddy little lie is that its a book of myths you worship, not God, and evolution has no problem with the concept of God. You are an idolator, and a book of myths is your own Golden Calf.

Same goes for RUSSELL, URBAN COWBOY, DEFENDER, and all your ilk.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126206 Mar 31, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're saying technological advancements didn't proceed according to your personal version of how they should have happened, therefore evolution never happened.
How many times do I have to say this? The universe is not obligated to conform itself to your ignorance.
Urban Cowboy is a Flintstone who could build a Chevy Corvette out of old rocks.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126207 Mar 31, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
To date I have seen many creationist take pot shots at talkorigins, but they come up empty when it comes to disputing its science.
Try that and I will take you more serious.
ad webinem is all they have

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126208 Apr 1, 2013
Russell wrote:
If you think this one pager rubbish can falsify the geologic column you are nuts. Its directly refuted in the article I sent you.

And yes, all regions have periodically been subject to sedimentation and erosion, so parts will be missing. But in comparing different sites (where these processes occurred at different times) the whole picture emerges easily. And there are some sites where buildup so far exceeded erosion that the whole column is present.

Impossible to take you seriously if your think THIS refutes the geologic column.
And
http://aufiles.creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j2...
And maybe this short article
Likewise this one. Better remind you that "index fossils" are merely a secondary dating technique, used practically in the field by oil geologists etc for the most part because its reliable...but the definitive dating comes from radiometric etc.

IN any case the assertion that the layers are mostly found LATERALLY adjacent is pure falsehood. How can we take this seriously???
Talk about circular:

"You may be surprised to learn that fossils are being found “in the wrong place” all the time. Out of place, that is, compared with the areas, or ranges, shown for them on the geological column. But evolutionists don’t think of them as being ‘wrong’ because they have a way of ‘explaining’ every new fossil discovery, no matter where it’s found. All they do is change their story about how evolution happened. Evolution is never questioned."

OF COURSE we will find new fossils outside their previously known range at times. DUH!

What matters, to evolution, is whether a new fossil is found BEFORE any of its possible evolutionary antecedents. And NO we don't find those.

Another shallow straw man.

Come on Russell, how do you buy this crap?
So, similar fossils might be given different species names just because they are found in different strata. Its a mistake, but SO WHAT?

Does the earlier fossil violate the nested hierarchy by existing before any of its possible antecedents? If not, then no problem for evolution. No doubt the record keepers will scurry along sorting out minor errors of classification like this. There are millions of fossils. The only ones you should care about are those that can disprove evolution.

You already know the criteria (as above).
Happy Easter
Happy Easter Russell.

So as usual, I read the crap you guys offer but you are afraid to read what I sent.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#126209 Apr 1, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Darth Vader was Luke's real father, and Gollum was originally a hobbit-like fellow called Smeagol who murdered his brother. The moral of the Star Belly Sneech story by Dr. Seuss is an anti-racist one. Achilles was the son of the river goddess Thetis who tried to make him invincible by dipping him in the river Styx as a baby, but she forgot the bit of his ankle covered by her own hand.
Blah blah blah.
Science fiction becomes science fact but it's the plot and the relationships between the characters that are important and true. God is the second Eve and the daughter of Adam who is Satan. The Messiah is Luke and Satan is Darth Vader.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#126210 Apr 1, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text> Science fiction becomes science fact but it's the plot and the relationships between the characters that are important and true. God is the second Eve and the daughter of Adam who is Satan. The Messiah is Luke and Satan is Darth Vader.
I agree that a great deal of fiction in the Bible has come to be seen as fact by the gullible. You want to change the story-line in the fables to suit yourself? Be my guest.

Of course, over here in the UAE, witchcraft is still a capital crime. They will defend their nonsense against your nonsense, to the death if necessary! Just be warned.

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