Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124777 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Right as rain!!! They have never came close to an answer for irreducible complexity!! The only defense they have are Behe insults yet Darwin's Black Box tore Dawkins a new one!!! Lol...
Wrong, all claims of irreducible complexity have been debunked.

You don't even hear the IDiots making that claim anymore.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124778 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah it wasn't a fraud.... Then why did they fire him McFly?
You defend known liars and expect for others to trust things you post?
When was Haeckel fired?

I would like to see some documentation on that. And please, unsupported claims from creatard sites does not count as documentation.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124779 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Intermediate forms for every single species?... How about just one bud? Could you do that?
One real intermediate complete fossil... Not the made up sketch artist bullshit from Talkorigins ...
I can list quite few. But be more specific what kind of transitional species do you want?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124780 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not the only one who can't see it... No one can... Because a plausible pathway doesn't exist.
You know that's a lie. I am sure we have linked them in the past. The most likely origin seems to be that of a arboreal lizard that jumped from branch to branch. Webbing would increase its ability to jump further or increase its chance of surviving a fall. As the species evolved the webbing got larger and it began to change from a controlled fall to a glide. From a glide the next step is actual flight. It is not that hard to posit a pathway to flight.
defender

Tucker, GA

#124781 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong, all claims of irreducible complexity have been debunked.

You don't even hear the IDiots making that claim anymore.
In your dreams maybe... Reality no...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124782 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
In your dreams maybe... Reality no...
Right, then name your best example of irreducible complexity that you can.

Remember that the IDiots have very low original thinking, so they tended to pick unsolved problems on the cutting edge of research.

Do you know what very often happens to problems on the cutting edge of research>

Freaking IDiots.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#124783 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
In your dreams maybe... Reality no...
Here's a question...

How would you ultimately define something as irreducably complex, and do this definitively.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124784 Mar 23, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a question...
How would you ultimately define something as irreducably complex, and do this definitively.
When I make a challenge like defender did it is not an idle challenge.

I always make sure I have the next shot ready before making a claim on that order. It has been quite a while since he made that claim. I see no response yet. Does anyone else see it?
HTS

Mandan, ND

#124785 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, all claims of irreducible complexity have been debunked.
You don't even hear the IDiots making that claim anymore.
What a load of BS.
The weaponry of the mantis shrimp is irreducible complex.
How has that claim been "debunked"?
HTS

Mandan, ND

#124786 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that's a lie. I am sure we have linked them in the past. The most likely origin seems to be that of a arboreal lizard that jumped from branch to branch. Webbing would increase its ability to jump further or increase its chance of surviving a fall. As the species evolved the webbing got larger and it began to change from a controlled fall to a glide. From a glide the next step is actual flight. It is not that hard to posit a pathway to flight.
Engineers from MIT have spent thousands of hours developing computer code to endow robot pterosaurs with the capacity to fly, and you think it's simple.

That's the fundamental problem with DarwinBots...they grossly misrepresent complexities of nature.

If you did surgery on a tree lizard and endowed it with anatomical wings, it could not fly. Start over.. And describe a pathway that honestly acknowledges the obstacles to flight.

How did mutations produce a six foot long fourth digit? Where did the pteroid bone come from? How did the complex instinctive changes "appear"?

Bedtime stories are to science.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124787 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Engineers from MIT have spent thousands of hours developing computer code to endow robot pterosaurs with the capacity to fly, and you think it's simple.
That's the fundamental problem with DarwinBots...they grossly misrepresent complexities of nature.
If you did surgery on a tree lizard and endowed it with anatomical wings, it could not fly. Start over.. And describe a pathway that honestly acknowledges the obstacles to flight.
How did mutations produce a six foot long fourth digit? Where did the pteroid bone come from? How did the complex instinctive changes "appear"?
Bedtime stories are to science.
I didn't say it was simple. Nor how they fly is not the question that you asked.

You asked for a pathway to flight and I gave you one.

Don't make idiotic requests and then get all pissed off when someone fulfills your request.

Seriously, if you want more than I gave you you are going to have to do some work yourself.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124788 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
What a load of BS.
The weaponry of the mantis shrimp is irreducible complex.
How has that claim been "debunked"?
More details please.

How is it irreducibly complex?

Are you going to give us another argument from ignorance?
HTS

Mandan, ND

#124789 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I can list quite few. But be more specific what kind of transitional species do you want?
1. A transition between non-life and single cell life
2. A transition between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction
3. A transition between single cell life and multicellular life.
4. A transition between the reproductive system of an amphibian and a reptile.
5. A transition between egg-laying to placental mammals
6. A transition between gills and lungs.
7. A transition between no kidney and a kidney
8. A transition between a reptilian lung and an avian lung
9. A transition between a terrestrial rodent and a bat
10. A transition between an arboreal lizard and a pterosaur.
11. A transition between a spider that couldn't spin a web and one that could.
12. A transition between a fish with no migratory instinct and a salmon.
13. A transition between a conventional plant and a carnivorous plant.
14. A transition between a mollusk with a shell and a mollusk without a shell.
15. A transition between no echolocation and the sonar of a dolphin.
16. A transition between no bioluminescence and a firefly.
17. A transition between no blood coagulation and the complex coagulation cascades in mammals.
18. The transition between a non-venomous and venomous snake
19. The transition between a conventional crustacean and a mantis shrimp
20. The transition between a non-flowering plant and a flowering plant.

SZ... Perhaps this will exceed the limits of even your imagination.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124790 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
1. A transition between non-life and single cell life
2. A transition between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction
3. A transition between single cell life and multicellular life.
4. A transition between the reproductive system of an amphibian and a reptile.
5. A transition between egg-laying to placental mammals
6. A transition between gills and lungs.
7. A transition between no kidney and a kidney
8. A transition between a reptilian lung and an avian lung
9. A transition between a terrestrial rodent and a bat
10. A transition between an arboreal lizard and a pterosaur.
11. A transition between a spider that couldn't spin a web and one that could.
12. A transition between a fish with no migratory instinct and a salmon.
13. A transition between a conventional plant and a carnivorous plant.
14. A transition between a mollusk with a shell and a mollusk without a shell.
15. A transition between no echolocation and the sonar of a dolphin.
16. A transition between no bioluminescence and a firefly.
17. A transition between no blood coagulation and the complex coagulation cascades in mammals.
18. The transition between a non-venomous and venomous snake
19. The transition between a conventional crustacean and a mantis shrimp
20. The transition between a non-flowering plant and a flowering plant.
SZ... Perhaps this will exceed the limits of even your imagination.
Are you absolutely sure you want to use this? I will use the Gish Gallop rule if you do so. Debunking one by definition debunks all if you want to go that way.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#124791 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say it was simple. Nor how they fly is not the question that you asked.
You asked for a pathway to flight and I gave you one.
Don't make idiotic requests and then get all pissed off when someone fulfills your request.
Seriously, if you want more than I gave you you are going to have to do some work yourself.
You did not give me a viable pathway because you grossly under represented what would be required for flight. The simple provision of anatomic changes does not enable a creature to fly.
You provided a bedtime story.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#124792 Mar 23, 2013
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
You wanta believe you have fishy gills in early development knock yourself out there killer!! We'll just keep laughing...
More kool- aid anyone?
Nobody says we have full-blown gills. But, humans do have gill pouches, which resorb and become the Eustachian tubes. Or, you can just deny that it ever occurs.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124793 Mar 23, 2013
And I will give you a freebie.

You asked the wrong question in number 6. No one ever claimed that gills turned to lungs.

Besides we do not need to answer your idiot questions to prove evolution.

How many times do you have to be told the how fossils form?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#124794 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
1. A transition between non-life and single cell life
2. A transition between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction
3. A transition between single cell life and multicellular life.
4. A transition between the reproductive system of an amphibian and a reptile.
5. A transition between egg-laying to placental mammals
6. A transition between gills and lungs.
7. A transition between no kidney and a kidney
8. A transition between a reptilian lung and an avian lung
9. A transition between a terrestrial rodent and a bat
10. A transition between an arboreal lizard and a pterosaur.
11. A transition between a spider that couldn't spin a web and one that could.
12. A transition between a fish with no migratory instinct and a salmon.
13. A transition between a conventional plant and a carnivorous plant.
14. A transition between a mollusk with a shell and a mollusk without a shell.
15. A transition between no echolocation and the sonar of a dolphin.
16. A transition between no bioluminescence and a firefly.
17. A transition between no blood coagulation and the complex coagulation cascades in mammals.
18. The transition between a non-venomous and venomous snake
19. The transition between a conventional crustacean and a mantis shrimp
20. The transition between a non-flowering plant and a flowering plant.
SZ... Perhaps this will exceed the limits of even your imagination.
Wait...you're really asking for information about the evolution of the cascade reaction in blood? Never heard of Kitzmiller v. Dover Board of Ed., eh?
Russell

Melbourne, Australia

#124795 Mar 23, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
1. A transition between non-life and single cell life
2. A transition between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction
3. A transition between single cell life and multicellular life.
4. A transition between the reproductive system of an amphibian and a reptile.
5. A transition between egg-laying to placental mammals
6. A transition between gills and lungs.
7. A transition between no kidney and a kidney
8. A transition between a reptilian lung and an avian lung
9. A transition between a terrestrial rodent and a bat
10. A transition between an arboreal lizard and a pterosaur.
11. A transition between a spider that couldn't spin a web and one that could.
12. A transition between a fish with no migratory instinct and a salmon.
13. A transition between a conventional plant and a carnivorous plant.
14. A transition between a mollusk with a shell and a mollusk without a shell.
15. A transition between no echolocation and the sonar of a dolphin.
16. A transition between no bioluminescence and a firefly.
17. A transition between no blood coagulation and the complex coagulation cascades in mammals.
18. The transition between a non-venomous and venomous snake
19. The transition between a conventional crustacean and a mantis shrimp
20. The transition between a non-flowering plant and a flowering plant.
SZ... Perhaps this will exceed the limits of even your imagination.
Perhaps??

It's guaranteed to

Have a heart HTS
That's too hard a question for SubDud
If its not covered on Shrieking Horridness, SZ has no clue

When that happens, he turns to the Wiki.....

Or he will fold his arms in defiance and state:
"How would I know. Ask an expert."

If you really would like an answer, check Stalking Ribbons first, choose a nice easy question that has plenty of nonsense written there...... And then it's simply a matter of waiting for rubbish to be transferred here.....

He has nothing
HTS

Mandan, ND

#124796 Mar 23, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
More details please.
How is it irreducibly complex?
Are you going to give us another argument from ignorance?
. The mantis shrimp can deliver a blow that achieves an acceleration 10,000 times that of gravity, shattering the shells of crabs, rock oysters, and other prey.
Such speed would be impossible to achieve through gradualistic means.

Mechanical analysis of the weaponry of the mantis shrimp has revealed an ingenious method of energy storage (including a biological spring mechanism) to allow for the acceleration of the clubs that would not otherwise be possible. The joint anatomy has been altered by reorganization of architecture and implementation of a multi-faceted mechanical system that integrates latches, linkages, and lever arms. It is powered through multiple sites of energy storage. In this manner, analogous to a mousetrap, energy is stored and then suddenly released, allowing the creature to achieve speeds and force far beyond what would otherwise be possible within biological systems.

In addition to the anatomic changes I've described, the ultra structural features are also irreducible complex.

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