Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178667 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124377 Mar 20, 2013
Rusty tends to list his numbers extremely poorly. His number 3. and 4. are actually totals of the numbers below.

So his first "real" claim was that of 61,9111,000 supposedly dead in the Soviet Gulag system. Now since this number is larger than the number of people that were ever prisoners of the Soviet Gulag system I found it very hard to believe. A study of Russian records shows the number was 1,053,829, but since many people were released when they were about to die there were estimated up to 1.6 million people who died in the gulags.

Hey, I am already over 100 million people. Taking the errant 60 million that Rusty claimed, the 22 some million attributed to atheists by Rusty's author or by Rusty himself and attributed to Christians that is a swing of over 100 million. And I only checked two of the source that he gave.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#124378 Mar 20, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
OK
Do it..
Let's see your research Bud
By the way
Hitler was no more a Christian in the sense of being a follower of Christ than I am a burger by virtue of being in McDonalds'
Historians have long accepted and indicated that Hitler was an evolutionist
The Nazis even planned to exterminate Christianity
http://creation.com/nazis-planned-to-extermin...
Gee
You know very little, eh SZ?
Lazy, dumb and backing a losing horse....
AND you've named yourself "mud"...
It's so hilarious!
No true Scotsman fallacy. He was a christian, he followed the religion, and even used it to justify his crimes.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124379 Mar 20, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
OK
Do it..
Let's see your research Bud
By the way
Hitler was no more a Christian in the sense of being a follower of Christ than I am a burger by virtue of being in McDonalds'
Historians have long accepted and indicated that Hitler was an evolutionist
The Nazis even planned to exterminate Christianity
http://creation.com/nazis-planned-to-extermin...
Gee
You know very little, eh SZ?
Lazy, dumb and backing a losing horse....
AND you've named yourself "mud"...
It's so hilarious!
You can deny that Hitler was not a Christian but the evidence and Hitler's own statements prove you wrong. He claimed to be a Catholic to the end, and the last time I checked Catholics were considered to be Christians. He persecuted atheists. Not as badly as he persecuted the Jews, but being openly atheists would get you into the concentration camps.

You are guilty of the "No true Scotsman fallacy":https://yourlogi calfallacyis.com/no-true-scots man
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124380 Mar 20, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
How about the fact that it is:
Observable
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Testable
How and where has this ever happened?

Please don't say Lenski

I am quite unimpressed with your "science"

I will surely burst into tears with utter compassion and sorrow for you if you say Lenski...
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
falsifiable
No
You're wrong....

Keep trying tho'
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Replicable,.......
Never

Its never happened and never will

Go ahead and design an experimental protocol where you can achieve this...

Let's see it..
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words it is science.
Magic poofing has no evidence.
No sadly......for you

Evolution just ain't science...

Repeating this sad little mantra does not make it so....

What do you chant in Buddhism?

What you wrote above is the evo-chant....

Gets a bit grating after a while..

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124381 Mar 20, 2013
Remember Rusty's idiot statement that 60 some million died in the Soviet Gulag system? That would be rather difficult when only 18 million passed through the Gulags.

Rusty is a typical idiot who will believe any numbers that seem to support him. The more they support him the better they seem to him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13717...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124382 Mar 20, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
OK
Do it..
Let's see your research Bud
By the way
Hitler was no more a Christian in the sense of being a follower of Christ than I am a burger by virtue of being in McDonalds'
Historians have long accepted and indicated that Hitler was an evolutionist
The Nazis even planned to exterminate Christianity
http://creation.com/nazis-planned-to-extermin...
Gee
You know very little, eh SZ?
Lazy, dumb and backing a losing horse....
AND you've named yourself "mud"...
It's so hilarious!
Creatard.com is a know lying site. If they publish an article it is automatically assumed not to be true.

Why do Christians want to distance themselves from Hitler? They got along so well during WWII?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124383 Mar 20, 2013
What is even more hilarious is that Rusty only read the title of the article.

There was no attempt, even according to Rusty's article from a very dubious source, to exterminate Christianity. All it claims that Hitler did was to go after a few pastors that opposed his reign. There was no attempt to "exterminate Christianity".
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124384 Mar 20, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Creatard.com is a know lying site. If they publish an article it is automatically assumed not to be true.
Why do Christians want to distance themselves from Hitler? They got along so well during WWII?
Killing people is not consistent with Christianity
So, stop being daft

Creation.com is just fine

Stop being a bigot

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#124386 Mar 20, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Killing people is not consistent with Christianity
So, stop being daft
Creation.com is just fine
Stop being a bigot
Wow, you just denied your own bible.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124387 Mar 20, 2013
I was looking at Rusty's list of murders that were supposedly done by atheists and I am really finding it hard to identify very many actual atheist murderers. Yes, there are some, but the Russian ones were laughably large. The only other one that my be attributable to an atheistic leader is the Chinese. And if that number is like the Soviet number the actual number would be about 1 million. Time to Google search again.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124388 Mar 20, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Killing people is not consistent with Christianity
So, stop being daft
Creation.com is just fine
Stop being a bigot
Yeah right, tell that to the Popes who divided the world in half for the Spanish and the Portuguese. And then of course there are the countless deaths from the Crusades, the various Inguisitions, wars that were started because of Christian beliefs, various massacres of early protestants etc..

No, creatard.com has been shown to be a lying source many times over. And their title in your last article did not agree with the article itself. How stupid can you get?

It is not being a bigot to point out that a site is not scientific and admits they are ready to lie if necessary.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124389 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah right, tell that to the Popes who divided the world in half for the Spanish and the Portuguese. And then of course there are the countless deaths from the Crusades, the various Inguisitions, wars that were started because of Christian beliefs, various massacres of early protestants etc..
No, creatard.com has been shown to be a lying source many times over. And their title in your last article did not agree with the article itself. How stupid can you get?
It is not being a bigot to point out that a site is not scientific and admits they are ready to lie if necessary.
How many did the Popes kill??

Go Wiki!!!!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124390 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How many did the Popes kill??
Go Wiki!!!!
That would be hard to estimate.

The Mayan Empire, The Incan Empire, countless other Native American groups defeated for oro and as a secondary consideration new Catholics.

The Crusades, the Inguisitions, the massacres of countless early protestants. Who knows? That number may approach 100 million but it was probably close to 10 million.

And don't forget about the various wars by Christians against Christians. The War of the Roses in England was a Christian war.

I tell you what Rusty, I am going to bed. Why don't you find one of your sites that exaggerate just a little bit and see how many there were.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124391 Mar 21, 2013
By the way Rusty, Wiki with all of its faults is a far superior site than creatard.com .

When someone lies or makes a mistake on Wiki another member will correct it if he can. Every article in creatard.com has fatal mistakes in it and no one tries to repair them at all.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124392 Mar 21, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty funny that you think Dr. Marks is in your camp. He is vehemently against racism, especially scientific racism. He is still, however, an 'evolutionist'.
Have you heard of the concept of a hostile witness?

Did you think I was somehow unaware that Jonathan Marks is an evolutionist?

Gee

You're simpler than I thought
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124393 Mar 21, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be hard to estimate.
The Mayan Empire, The Incan Empire, countless other Native American groups defeated for oro and as a secondary consideration new Catholics.
The Crusades, the Inguisitions, the massacres of countless early protestants. Who knows? That number may approach 100 million but it was probably close to 10 million.
And don't forget about the various wars by Christians against Christians. The War of the Roses in England was a Christian war.
I tell you what Rusty, I am going to bed. Why don't you find one of your sites that exaggerate just a little bit and see how many there were.
How many?

Stop being hysterical...

How many deaths are directly attributable to Christianity?

You are too vague and fuzzy for my liking
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#124395 Mar 21, 2013
Please note that post #124385 is missing

I believe that is my reply to SZ

It's missing

I suspect perhaps due my use of the word "dumb" too often for the mod

How can one debate SZ without saying dumb?

From now on, SZ, just know I am thinking you're dumb......even if I don't say it

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#124396 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you heard of the concept of a hostile witness?
Did you think I was somehow unaware that Jonathan Marks is an evolutionist?
Gee
You're simpler than I thought
I have no idea what you're aware of. And, judging by your posts, not much.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#124397 Mar 21, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Good argument but it does not really work. Lets score it, while trying to avoid the nauseating meat-market aspect of this whole argument.
Lets say there are 100 points available.
You get 0-50 for the pluses/minuses that can be sensed (seen, smelled, understood by interaction, etc). Thus you can (hopefully) influence this part of the total.
You get 0-50 for the pluses/minuses that are an undetectible and random quantity, and assuming that none of this can be sensed in any way.... so this "score" would be a random distribution from 0-50.
Just add them up.
Whatever proportion you choose to assign to visible vs invisible attributes, your odds on average of a good mate are higher if you choose the best you can on the information you have. A particular individual might get unlucky, having chosen the bombshell who turned out to be a timebomb...but clearly you can see that statistically, ANY information that can improve your odds of a strong partner are going to be valuable.
BTW, evolution would not lose its "main mechanism". Sexual selection is just one aspect of natural selection, and evolution works without it. It may even be that at times sexual selection drives species into evolutionary dead-ends, as traits that are exaggerated initially in a positive way may become burdensome if selected to excess.
Point system? You're just making up stuff to avoid the reality. It doesn't matter what the attraction was, the point is you can't see what's underneath genetically; it is all invisible. At the extreme end, if you were attracted to someone who you know is genetically defective and at the other extreme, a person who appears fit and is genetically fit or isn't. Doesn't matter. The point is that natural selection is selecting without knowledge of the underlying genetic fitness.

Many genetic diseases occur in the population at known percentages, i.e., 1 out 200, etc., but unless a person is tested, one doesn't know who has the recessive gene and who is at risk. People at risk could run the gamut fitness-wise. Recessive genes do not discriminate.(Although, we as humans might discriminate against people who were tested and were known to carry something).

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#124398 Mar 21, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How many?
Stop being hysterical...
How many deaths are directly attributable to Christianity?
You are too vague and fuzzy for my liking
What's the problem idiot?

Do you hate having the same standards applied to you that you try to apply to everyone else?

That makes you a hypocrite.

Hypocrites hate it when they get beaten at a game they started. Especially when their opponents use the same rules that they are.

What a douchebag.

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