Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#123877 Mar 17, 2013
And that was not the video I was talking about. I was talking about one that would explain abiogenesis to you.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123878 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
I've already seen that idiotic video that Dick Dawkins produced.
Any "force" that could remove incorrect keystrokes would have to have extensive knowledge of the English language... In other words... Intelligence.
And that's why analogies are just that - a way of describing a concept in a simple manner.

With evolution - the selection is simply of the organisms that have more chance of survival - that's it - nothing more - no intelligence required

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

North Miami Beach, FL

#123879 Mar 17, 2013
"Do you fall to your knees, you millions?
Do you sense the Creator, world?
Seek Him above the starry canopy,
beyond the stars he must dwell."

From Beethoven's No. 9 ("Choral"), which sits on the pinnacle of the Mount Everest of Symphonies!

Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123880 Mar 17, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
"Do you fall to your knees, you millions?
Do you sense the Creator, world?
Seek Him above the starry canopy,
beyond the stars he must dwell."
From Beethoven's No. 9 ("Choral"), which sits on the pinnacle of the Mount Everest of Symphonies!
Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!
Beethoven - How I hate to agree with you YET AGAIN in a single year.

I owe you a pint of Guinness - have a good one.
ARGUING with IDIOTS

Redding, CA

#123881 Mar 17, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>And that's why analogies are just that - a way of describing a concept in a simple manner.

With evolution - the selection is simply of the organisms that have more chance of survival - that's it - nothing more - no intelligence required
If this is true, then where does the new information come from?
HTS

Williston, ND

#123882 Mar 17, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
And that's why analogies are just that - a way of describing a concept in a simple manner.
With evolution - the selection is simply of the organisms that have more chance of survival - that's it - nothing more - no intelligence required
Eolutiondidit is not a scientific explanation.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123883 Mar 17, 2013
ARGUING with IDIOTS wrote:
<quoted text>
If this is true, then where does the new information come from?
Information is a slightly misleading word - but the answer is the same nonetheless - the information comes from mutations.

And not just point mutations (single base pairs) but insertions , duplications etc followed by other mutations.

These can 'add' to the genome - and in some cases provide 'coding' for new amino acids.

I have 'quoted' the term coding as although the genetic 'code' is a useful analogy - again it is just that - an analogy
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123884 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Eolutiondidit is not a scientific explanation.
So presumably gravitydidit isn't either?

Oh, and still waiting for your scientific evidence of your god (you know the stuff you said you had)

And of course backing up any of the crap about HIV/AIDS - but given up on that one to be honest

Now - let me guess which parts of this post you are going to answer and which you are going to ignore?

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

North Miami Beach, FL

#123885 Mar 17, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Beethoven - How I hate to agree with you YET AGAIN in a single year.
I owe you a pint of Guinness - have a good one.
I would not only love the pint but love the company. Thanks!
HTS

Williston, ND

#123886 Mar 17, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
So presumably gravitydidit isn't either?
Oh, and still waiting for your scientific evidence of your god (you know the stuff you said you had)
And of course backing up any of the crap about HIV/AIDS - but given up on that one to be honest
Now - let me guess which parts of this post you are going to answer and which you are going to ignore?
Mugwump...
You haven't scientifically refuted anything I've said.
All you have done is regurgitate the same recycled atheist BS.
Gravity has nothing to do with abiogenesis, so why do your persist in idiotic distractions?
The answer is clear.... you have no science to back up your evo-fairytales.
HTS

Williston, ND

#123887 Mar 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
That is because your idiot challenge requires intelligence. Life does not require intelligence.
SZ... your aimless evo-babbling is getting annoying.
At least try to make a logical point once in awhile.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123889 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Mugwump...
You haven't scientifically refuted anything I've said.
All you have done is regurgitate the same recycled atheist BS.
Gravity has nothing to do with abiogenesis, so why do your persist in idiotic distractions?
The answer is clear.... you have no science to back up your evo-fairytales.
Errr - you haven't presented anything regarding your scientific evidence of a god - so not much can do about that.

And as I recall - your HIV /AIDS nonsense I refuted with numerous references.

And no, gravity has naff all to do with abiogenisis - but then Abio has nothing to do with evolution

So the answer is clear... You post stuff but won't back it up - and don't understand the subject you are arguing against.

And somehow this is MY FAULT - good grief now I can imagine what it is like to be married
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123890 Mar 17, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I would not only love the pint but love the company. Thanks!
Suspect if we kept off the subject of evolution (religion am fine with, even as an outsider) would be fine ... Though possibly avoid work talk as well - you being an IT auditor and me being an IT cowboy :-)

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#123891 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
SZ... your aimless evo-babbling is getting annoying.
At least try to make a logical point once in awhile.
It is not my fault if you cannot see how your test demanded that intelligence needed to be put into the selection method.

Evolution demands that selection choose the most likely to reproduce successfully. Luckily for us that is not an "intelligent" act. And actually it takes no intelligence for the monkey/Shakespeare scenario. That has been done with a relatively simple computer program and you would really have to be stretching things if you called that computer program intelligent.
HTS

Williston, ND

#123892 Mar 17, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Errr - you haven't presented anything regarding your scientific evidence of a god - so not much can do about that.
And as I recall - your HIV /AIDS nonsense I refuted with numerous references.
d
Scientific evidence of God... You can start by looking out the window. The whole of nature loudly proclaims the existence of a supreme being.

Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), one of the most highly regarded physicists of the nineteen century, repeatedly cited evidence of intelligent design through his observations in science:

"The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism… Creative power is the only feasible answer to the origin of life from a scientific perspective."*

 *Lord Kelvin quotes (Irish Scientist, 1824-1907)

It is obvious that your cavalier dismissal of evidence is only a reflection of your abject stupidity coupled with unbelievable arrogance.

HIV/AIDS... You have provide no references. All you have done is indicated that you are a mindless "go-with-the-flow" sheep, guzzling whatever kool-aid given to you by talkorigins.
HTS

Williston, ND

#123893 Mar 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not my fault if you cannot see how your test demanded that intelligence needed to be put into the selection method.
Evolution demands that selection choose the most likely to reproduce successfully. Luckily for us that is not an "intelligent" act. And actually it takes no intelligence for the monkey/Shakespeare scenario. That has been done with a relatively simple computer program and you would really have to be stretching things if you called that computer program intelligent.
The monkey/ Shakespeare scenario requires a fixed end target. No intelligent human being can write a play by contemplating one letter at a time.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123894 Mar 17, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not my fault if you cannot see how your test demanded that intelligence needed to be put into the selection method.
Evolution demands that selection choose the most likely to reproduce successfully. Luckily for us that is not an "intelligent" act. And actually it takes no intelligence for the monkey/Shakespeare scenario. That has been done with a relatively simple computer program and you would really have to be stretching things if you called that computer program intelligent.
Actually, would have to disagree with you here and pre-empt HTSs next post.

The computer program would have been programmed by an intelligent coder (actually wouldn't have to be that intelligent - just sentient).

And this is the problem with some of these analogies - it is easy to draw parallels with 'design' and infer Intelligence - the point is with natural selection it is a simple selection that dosent need a 'driving hand' just survival (or technically a reproductive advantage).

Not disagreeing with your point as such - as I say can just guess the response to it so thought it wise to pre-empt it.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#123895 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
The monkey/ Shakespeare scenario requires a fixed end target. No intelligent human being can write a play by contemplating one letter at a time.
Well of course the original play would have to be written by intelligence, but neither the program that creates the plays needs intelligence.

And that need was because you chose to have a specific goal. There is no specific goal for evolution except for the survival of life.

If you make a test with an artificial goal in it that requires a matching driving device.

Come up with a better scenario and we will show how it can be done. The fault that intelligence is needed for one small part of this is not ours. It is yours for continually moving the goal posts.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#123896 Mar 17, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Scientific evidence of God... You can start by looking out the window. The whole of nature loudly proclaims the existence of a supreme being.
Sorry thought you said you had scientific evidence not your opinion
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), one of the most highly regarded physicists of the nineteen century, repeatedly cited evidence of intelligent design through his observations in science:
"The more thoroughly I conduct scientific research, the more I believe that science excludes atheism… Creative power is the only feasible answer to the origin of life from a scientific perspective."*
 *Lord Kelvin quotes (Irish Scientist, 1824-1907)
Sorry, thought you had scientific evidence not just someone else's century old opinion
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
It is obvious that your cavalier dismissal of evidence is only a reflection of your abject stupidity coupled with unbelievable arrogance.
As I say not dismissal of evidence - just your opinion as it isn't supported by the evidence
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
HIV/AIDS... You have provide no references. All you have done is indicated that you are a mindless "go-with-the-flow" sheep, guzzling whatever kool-aid given to you by talkorigins.
Actually I did provide numerous references to refute the following points you made (and others)
HIV has never been contracted via needle stick
HIV has never been contracted by female prostitutes
HIV has never been found in teenagers

Most were from the CDC - none were from TO - I believe you dismissed CDC as some lefty atheist propaganda organisation.

But I did provide references - why do you have to lie - if your argument is watertight you shouldn't need to.

Want to try again?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#123897 Mar 17, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Warning: The following comment was made before the first cup of coffee!
In a sense, most of our cells (some blood cells the exception?) have spinning motors (ATP Synthase motors) that drive our energy. Or he may be referring simply to electrons (which as far as I know we cannot predict their precise location or velocity). But there is a lot of rotation going on in our bodies for sure. And how this relates to Earth's rotation? I don't know but there sure is a lot of rotation going on everywhere from the atoms to galaxies. Seems fitting.

Pulling our favorite idiots strings?

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