Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179628 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122257 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You're ignorant. Stalin was a staunch Atheist... even Richard Dawkins freely admits that. Likewise, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong were all committed atheists. Hitler justified the cruelties of the third Reich on atheistic evolution. Over 260 million people were slaughtered by totalitarian regimes during the twentieth century in the name of atheistic evolution.
Not as ignorant as you dumbo

What has Dawkins got to do with Stalinís belief? It is well documented what Stalin did and why, there is never any question of atheism except from chrsitians in denial

Pot Pot was raised in a catholic school until he was 15, are you saying that his education did not effect his beliefs?

Hitler was a devout christian, he even had a catholic papal envoy on his team

Mao Zedong was raised Buddhist, after surviving an attack by a tiger he gave thanks to god (so not atheist then) he rejected religion for the good of his country

Mussolini was baptised christian so even though he did not belief in christianity there is no doubt that the vatican records have him as a christian

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122258 Mar 8, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Jim Ryan = one way or another
Yup (thanks) just trying to get him to admit it
One way or another

United States

#122259 Mar 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of the founding fathers of science were Moslim, without people like Ibn al-Haytham in the 8th and 9th century science would have remained in the domain of alchemy. While science was developing in the east and middle east christianity was fighting a desperate battle to suppress itís progress (just ask Galileo and Copernicus)
The scientist you have been told about were christian, there is a major difference here.
Yes the original Universities were founded by christians and limited their teaching to religion and latin. Things have moved on a bit, now only in the US are uniís founded by christianity, unfortunately for you the world is not the US. Schools existed a long time before christianity was though of, Around 300 B.C in Sumaria and Egypt and a little later in Rome schools were founded.
Nope, christians are responsible for christian charity, not most charities (see below)
True that christians have founded many hospitals, particularly in the US where the founders name is up in lights over the door, contrary to local opinion it is not seen as a step to heaven. There were hospitals founded in the 250s/300s BC in Greece and Rome as well as several in the east, some hundreds of years before christianity was thought of.
Again Rome set up shelters for the homeless 300 years before christianity, outside the city walls of Rome nestled between Praetorian Guard camp and the menagerie. Could have been others, I donít know.
Honey, like the word morality you cannot just take and say Iím christian so thatís mine.
Atheist charities
United Nations Children's Fund, Mťdecins Sans FrontiŤres, Amnesty International,
Oxfam, Unicef. Oh and hereís one you may have heard of Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. Yes I know a few.
Actually I am not atheist by your definition. An atheist is someone who does not believe there is a god, the term is modelled on theist belief and the opposite. Me, I know there is no god.
However it is shown that christianity is declining (as are most religions with the exception of Islam). More so in Europe than America but even there you have worries.
As for its prevalence, people did not have much choice, well actually they did, it was a case of join us or die. Darwin shows that any species wantís to survive. More recently people are not so intimidated by such threats and of course civilisation has progressed to mean that christianity can no longer (for the most part) issue such threats. Hence the decline.
So like all the other Evo morons here, you claim to be an idiot. Too funny.

Power corrupts. Religion has always had power and it has always been corrupt, at least the leaders. The same goes for atheists or those in gov, that want to take away religious power, so they can have all the power.

Morons.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122260 Mar 8, 2013
Weekend is here Ė next week maybe. Cheers
One way or another

United States

#122261 Mar 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Supported by what evidence?
Who s Jim Ryan?
What has he published?
What are his qualifications?
If you cannot supply the answer then your rants on any subject that you claim is supported by a nobody are worthless
And yet, not one person here can refute the science I write.

You're all talk.

Show us any original work you have brought to science.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#122262 Mar 8, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, I don't think that the proper term for the explanation of how the seals got to Lake Baikal is "evolutionary".
OK, I'll rephrase the question... Give me an atheistic explanation for seals in Lake Baikal.
If you think they swam thousands of miles up rivers from the arctic, then you need to explain why seals only live in the largest lake on earth, and in no other lakes anywhere. If they started navigating up rivers, they would have had no idea that there was an enormous lake at the end of the trek. Is there any fossil evidence of seals navigating up rivers?
One way or another

United States

#122263 Mar 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope You are the one stuck with snow blindness, I am saying that your jim ryan guess is worthless without corroborating evidence and guess what Ė you donít have and can never have corroborating evidence
What has snow blindness got to do with blue eyes?
What has uv light got to do with blue eyes?
Just because you donít understand genetics only means that you donít understand genetics
Must you speak like an idiot?

Most people are aware that ultra-violet (UV) light is harmful to the eye and may lead to cataracts and other eye diseases such as age-related macular degeneration (AMD). Ultra-violet light is that portion of the spectrum of invisible light below 286nm to 400nm. While the primary source of UV light is the sun, other sources include welder's flash, video display terminals, fluorescent lighting, high-intensity mercury vapor lamps (for night sports and high-crime areas), and xenon arc lamps. UV light is divided into three segments, which are designated as A, B, and C.

UVC (below 286nm) is effectively filtered by the earth's ozone layer. UVB (286-320nm) is that solar energy which is the cause of sunburn and snow blindness and is absorbed by the cornea. UVA (320-400nm) is that part of the invisible spectrum of particular concern to eye care professionals. It is the most damaging of UV radiation and it is the radiation transmitted to the crystalline lens of the human eye.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122264 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Is there any evidence, anywhere in the world, of seals navigating up rivers from the ocean? Why are there no seals in the Angara or Yenisei Rivers today? I'm asking for scientific answers.
http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/...
HTS

Englewood, CO

#122265 Mar 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Not as ignorant as you dumbo
What has Dawkins got to do with Stalinís belief? It is well documented what Stalin did and why, there is never any question of atheism except from chrsitians in denial
Pot Pot was raised in a catholic school until he was 15, are you saying that his education did not effect his beliefs?
Hitler was a devout christian, he even had a catholic papal envoy on his team
Mao Zedong was raised Buddhist, after surviving an attack by a tiger he gave thanks to god (so not atheist then) he rejected religion for the good of his country
Mussolini was baptised christian so even though he did not belief in christianity there is no doubt that the vatican records have him as a christian
You falsely assume that a person's religion is determined by how he is raised. Most atheists are not born atheists. All of the totalitarian dictators you listed rejected Biblical teachings in favor of atheism.
One way or another

United States

#122266 Mar 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup (thanks) just trying to get him to admit it
You could have just said, are you Jim Ryan.

To answer, I have said I am Jim Ryan , many times on this site, as well as anyone with a brain would know I'm Jim Ryan, without me saying it outright--well, except for idiots like you, as is quite obvious.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#122267 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Are you an expert in primate paleontology? You are only parroting what you've been told, selectively believing what conforms to your worldview.
Actually, you can look up the fossil evidence of convergence an any open source, and if you don't believe it, you are free to track down the original specimens at universities and museums.

I am parroting nothing. I am agreeing with a theory that I freely admit I did not create, because the logic and the evidence for that theory are compelling when you look and think it through. By your standards, agreeing with anything anybody ever said would be parroting. Far from this, I treat every line of evidence for every theory with a critical eye. It is this eye which might have easily chosen creationism if its claims stacked up. After all, the bribe offered for accepting this belief is unsurpassable! But, it fails the same test of rational critical analysis that evolution passes with flying colours.

You keep your bribe and your threats, I will go with intellectual honesty instead.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122268 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't given me any geological evidence.
And historical evidencee is scientific evidence.
There is geological evidence of massive flooding. Water laid sediment spans the surfaces of entire continents and is seen on over 90% of the earths surface. Marine fossils are commonly seen in the Swiss Alps, Rocky Mountains and Himylayas. Whale fossils have been found hundreds of miles from the ocean.
Extremely piss poor argument, Doc. We know floods have occurred all over the world. There is no evidence of a single, global flood.
HTS wrote:
It was stated on this thread that geology proved no flood. I asked for the proof, and no one gave it. Now you're ridiculing me for challenging a baseless claim.
Once again, the baseless claim is of the global flood.

A classic:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0308/fe...
http://quest.nasa.gov/challenges/marsanalog/e...

Your ridicule is well deserved.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#122269 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't given me any geological evidence.
And historical evidencee is scientific evidence.
There is geological evidence of massive flooding. Water laid sediment spans the surfaces of entire continents and is seen on over 90% of the earths surface. Marine fossils are commonly seen in the Swiss Alps, Rocky Mountains and Himylayas. Whale fossils have been found hundreds of miles from the ocean.
It was stated on this thread that geology proved no flood. I asked for the proof, and no one gave it. Now you're ridiculing me for challenging a baseless claim.
Perhaps we are tired of repeating the same things over and over for the sake of fools who have no respect for empirical evidence anyway.

None of the items you mention are evidence for a world wide flood within the last 5000 years. Not even close.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122270 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>OK, I'll rephrase the question... Give me an atheistic explanation for seals in Lake Baikal.
WTF??? An atheistic explanation?
HTS wrote:
If you think they swam thousands of miles up rivers from the arctic, then you need to explain why seals only live in the largest lake on earth, and in no other lakes anywhere. If they started navigating up rivers, they would have had no idea that there was an enormous lake at the end of the trek. Is there any fossil evidence of seals navigating up rivers?
Lake?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_seal

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#122271 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>OK, I'll rephrase the question... Give me an atheistic explanation for seals in Lake Baikal.
If you think they swam thousands of miles up rivers from the arctic, then you need to explain why seals only live in the largest lake on earth, and in no other lakes anywhere. If they started navigating up rivers, they would have had no idea that there was an enormous lake at the end of the trek. Is there any fossil evidence of seals navigating up rivers?
Are you seriously trying to claim that without the intervention of God, it is inconceivable that a population of seals worked their way up a river at some stage and found a lake? That the only possible explanation is POOF! GODDIDIT!

While at the same time you are claiming that some old Sumerian flood myth must be true in a complete absence of evidence supporting it, and plenty of evidence that the world continued on as normal through the proposed total inundation of the world by floodwaters to the mountain tops??

Do you imagine for one second that you appear rational to anyone except the inside members of your religious cult?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#122272 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>No, there is no geologic evidence that no flood occurred.
No, there is NOT no geological evidence that no flood did not not occur.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#122273 Mar 8, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Extremely piss poor argument, Doc. We know floods have occurred all over the world. There is no evidence of a single, global flood.
<quoted text>
Once again, the baseless claim is of the global flood.
A classic:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0308/fe...
http://quest.nasa.gov/challenges/marsanalog/e...
Your ridicule is well deserved.
Yes, floods have occurred all over the world, but not resulting in whale fossils far inland and marine fossils on mountain tops.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#122275 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You're ignorant. Stalin was a staunch Atheist... even Richard Dawkins freely admits that. Likewise, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and Mao Zedong were all committed atheists. Hitler justified the cruelties of the third Reich on atheistic evolution. Over 260 million people were slaughtered by totalitarian regimes during the twentieth century in the name of atheistic evolution.
Hitler was one of yours. He was a Christian. He declared that he was a lifelong Catholic.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#122276 Mar 8, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't given me any geological evidence.
And historical evidencee is scientific evidence.
There is geological evidence of massive flooding. Water laid sediment spans the surfaces of entire continents and is seen on over 90% of the earths surface. Marine fossils are commonly seen in the Swiss Alps, Rocky Mountains and Himylayas. Whale fossils have been found hundreds of miles from the ocean.
It was stated on this thread that geology proved no flood. I asked for the proof, and no one gave it. Now you're ridiculing me for challenging a baseless claim.
People are tired of you and your bullshit. If you want evidence you have to work for it.

No more freebies for you.
HTS

Englewood, CO

#122277 Mar 8, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you seriously trying to claim that without the intervention of God, it is inconceivable that a population of seals worked their way up a river at some stage and found a lake? That the only possible explanation is POOF! GODDIDIT!
While at the same time you are claiming that some old Sumerian flood myth must be true in a complete absence of evidence supporting it, and plenty of evidence that the world continued on as normal through the proposed total inundation of the world by floodwaters to the mountain tops??
Do you imagine for one second that you appear rational to anyone except the inside members of your religious cult?
Calm down, Chimney...
I realize that I am assaulting your religion, but you need
to show some self control.
The seals didn't find just "a lake". It just happens to be the largest lake on earth. They couldn't have known that when they started. So if you believe in your atheistic religion, then you would expect seals to be found in multiple lakes of the world, given their propensity, as you suppose, to navigate up rivers. Of course, you dismiss that because it is "non-evidence" of evolution. A true scientist would logically ask that question.

Likewise, you dismiss with one broad sweep geologic and historical evidence of a massive flood because of your precommitment to your religion. The only reason you don't consider a flood is simple. It is referenced in scripture and is associated with intelligent design. Your entire religion would crash if it could be proven that a worldwide flood occurred. There is massive historical evidence of a global flood, but you choose to dismiss all of the evidence without ever having examined it. Are you an expert in ancient languages and cultures? Do you know how much corroborating evidence exists among multiple divergent civilizations that attests to such an event? You don't know, because you cherry pick what you believe, and what determines what you believe is what conforms to your atheistic worldview.

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