Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Read more: www.scientificblogging.com 178,491

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Read more
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#122045 Mar 7, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be rather refreshing for "mistakes" and indeed outright fraud to be "corrected"
May I take you down memory lane to a little while ago..
To reminisce about small fiasco called Archaeoraptor...
I accept it was a mistake....a forgery....Piltdown flying dinosaur fossil, no less.....
However, I do NOT accept as reasonable, that the key players involved, while knowing it was a fraud, National Geographic announced it as a discovery at a press conference and still published the claim 3 months afterwards
"By the time Currie walked into the basement-level lab, Rowe ---Professor Timothy Rowe, founder and director of the University of Texas High-Resolution X-ray CT Facility -----and the Czerkases had gone over the pictures.
According to what Rowe told me, the scans revealed that "the tail had no natural connection to the body," and he explained this to Stephen and Sylvia.
"It was hard to do, but I told them the fossil had been badly shattered and put together badly--deceptively--and there was a chance that it was a fraud. They were badly affected. I didn't know at the time that they'd invested $80,000 in it."
Currie remembered, though, that by the time he'd entered the room,
"Stephen and Sylvia and Tim had come to agreement that [the body and tail] did belong together."
Over the next several hours, however, it became apparent that Rowe, as well as Currie, was uncomfortable with this.
But they succumbed to the Czerkases' pressure.(Had Xu Xing never lucked into the farmer's second fossil, Currie and Rowe could be basking in Archaeoraptor's and the Czerkases' shared glory today.)
So, they contented themselves at the time with voicing reservation in private and never demanded that their doubts be strengthened in print.
Stephen had insisted that they move ahead quickly and play down their differences because NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC was on deadline, said Rowe.
This was true, but according to Bill Allen, "if anyone here had any inkling that something of this magnitude was wrong, I'd have stopped it, even on the day the magazine went to press [September 19], even though it would have cost us as much as $200,000."
----------
Trouble is, the publishing of the claim of a bird-dino transitional when there was good evidence of it being a fake....
Unforgivable!
__________
"In his investigative report printed in the October 2000 issue of National Geographic, Lewis Simons documented the fact that authors of the original account were ---TOLD SEVERAL TIMES----told several times of discrepancies in their data and problems with the fossil, but apparently never took the opportunity to establish the accuracy of the specimen (Simons, 2000).
Apparently,“establishing the accuracy” of some of the items it publishes is not one of National Geographic’s strong suits."
NatGeo is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. It's popular press, as scientific as it might try to look.
LowellGuy

Lowell, MA

#122046 Mar 7, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
"Artistic licence"...
Poetic term for fraud...
A lovely couple
http://calvarychapel.com/assets/_resampled/re...
Human hands and feet
http://calvarychapel.com/assets/_resampled/re...
How thoughtful...
http://calvarychapel.com/assets/_resampled/re...
----------
The truth...about Lucy's hands
http://calvarychapel.com/assets/_resampled/re...
J. Stern & R. Susman, 1983, Am. J. Phys. Anthropology 60:279-212
"Note that the circle with the dot inside is evidence for AL333 (australopithecines specimen) and that it shows that the fingers were just as curved, if not more curved than a chimpanzee. Hmmm! That isn’t what we saw in the other pictures."
True feet
http://calvarychapel.com/assets/_resampled/re...
J. Stern & R. Susman, 1983, Am. J. Phys. Anthropology 60:279-212
Check the vintage of this paper...
It was well known that Lucy had ape hands and feet
ITS PLAIN DECEPTION AND FRAUD
Isn't it telling that you need religious websites to argue against science? The only thing that can refute science is...wait for it...more science. Get some science that backs you up, and you'll have credibility, rather than just being another religious fundamentalist with a primal disdain for science because you perceive it as a threat against your book of magical stories.
HTS

Williston, ND

#122047 Mar 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely false. Order (lowered entropy) can and does occur in open energy fluxes in all manner of natural systems. Even the self assembly of a snowflake or a glacier would be impossible according to your (mis)understanding of the second law. I do not see an army of physicists making your claim...most of them accept evolution. Perhaps they understand thermodynamics better than you do.
?".
A snowflake is not ordered. DNA is.

So, you believe in evolution because armies of physicists, who know little to nothing about biology, don't object?
Many physicists, btw, think the ToE is BS.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122048 Mar 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Why kind of doctor are you again? Witch?
Does he say he’s a doctor???

Wow, I would never even have considered that

Although I understand you can buy a doctorate over the counter in the US, I certainly get enough spam telling me so.

I found this funny, my first year at uni, my history teacher was a doctor of comics, his thesis was on the popularity of Superman.(Oh yes - he also has a PHD in Roman archaeology)

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122049 Mar 7, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
A snowflake is not ordered. DNA is.
So, you believe in evolution because armies of physicists, who know little to nothing about biology, don't object?
Many physicists, btw, think the ToE is BS.
Don’t lie

Many physicists think no such thing

Some physicist think ToE is BS and mostly they work for the discovery institute and creation because they cant get there work peer reviewed

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122050 Mar 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Does he say he’s a doctor???
Wow, I would never even have considered that
He made some comments about medical school or pre-med. He also said something about being a physician. I'm glad he's far enough away that there is no chance I could fall under his 'care'.
ChristineM wrote:
Although I understand you can buy a doctorate over the counter in the US, I certainly get enough spam telling me so.
I found this funny, my first year at uni, my history teacher was a doctor of comics, his thesis was on the popularity of Superman.(Oh yes - he also has a PHD in Roman archaeology)
Doctor of Comics? That is funny.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#122051 Mar 7, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
You think its absolutely constant, as your creationist quote falsely claims?
Creationist? Wikipedia? Not yet anyway! Falsely? I don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-value_enigma

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122052 Mar 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He made some comments about medical school or pre-med. He also said something about being a physician. I'm glad he's far enough away that there is no chance I could fall under his 'care'.
<quoted text>
Doctor of Comics? That is funny.
That is frightening. I once had a discussion with RR (I think is was) as to whether fundies can make good doctors. My guess is you can guess how that went.
HTS

Sidney, MT

#122053 Mar 7, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Pollen grain found in Precambrian rock that is ‘dated’ over a billion years before pollen-producing plants were supposed to have evolved, and was published in Nature
---Stainforth, R.M. Occurrence of pollen and spores in the Roraima Formation of Venezuela and British Guiana, Nature 210(5033):292–294, 16 April 1966.
Congratulations, Russell...
The proverbial "precambrian rabbit" has been found.
Evolution, according the the criteria of prominent evolutionary biologists, has been debunked.
One way or another

United States

#122054 Mar 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He made some comments about medical school or pre-med. He also said something about being a physician. I'm glad he's far enough away that there is no chance I could fall under his 'care'.
<quoted text>
Doctor of Comics? That is funny.
Aww the poor babies need to comfort each other. Go home children and tell your mommies of the mean ol adults. Lol---morons.
One way or another

United States

#122055 Mar 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
That is frightening. I once had a discussion with RR (I think is was) as to whether fundies can make good doctors. My guess is you can guess how that went.
And your an idiot, but then you know that. Obviously science means nothing to you morons, so hey, we can just use childishness.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122056 Mar 7, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Congratulations, Russell...
The proverbial "precambrian rabbit" has been found.
Evolution, according the the criteria of prominent evolutionary biologists, has been debunked.
On one 50 year old paper on a incorrectly categorise pollen grain – wow you are easily please, and I despaired about all that scientific evidence you denied.

Hypocrite.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#122057 Mar 7, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
And your an idiot, but then you know that. Obviously science means nothing to you morons, so hey, we can just use childishness.
More christian BS, tell me have you actually got anything to add to this thread?
Your deliberate ignorance and inbred hate genes do not count

Is it any wonder that christianity is a dying religion when there are dickheads like you batting on their side?
One way or another

United States

#122058 Mar 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
More christian BS, tell me have you actually got anything to add to this thread?
Your deliberate ignorance and inbred hate genes do not count
Is it any wonder that christianity is a dying religion when there are dickheads like you batting on their side?
Aww poor baby, tell your mommy you need your bottle so you can take a nap. Shove religion up your a-s-s moron.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#122060 Mar 7, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
A snowflake is not ordered. DNA is.
So, you believe in evolution because armies of physicists, who know little to nothing about biology, don't object?
Many physicists, btw, think the ToE is BS.
Wrong, 1 percent is not "many"

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#122061 Mar 7, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Congratulations, Russell...
The proverbial "precambrian rabbit" has been found.
Evolution, according the the criteria of prominent evolutionary biologists, has been debunked.
Nope. The problem with pollen is that it is very fine and can be transported by water. These pollens were found in a very porous sandstone. A more reasonable explanation is that the pollens were transported after the fact into the sandstone. If this was a realistic claim you would find the same sort of pollens in impermeable rocks like shale. You don't. Very rarely out of date pollens can be found in porous sedimentary rock, but never in non-porous sedimentary rock.

This is not a "Precambrian rabbit".

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122062 Mar 7, 2013
Hey Urb! I'd stay out of the water for a while.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tens...
HTS

Williston, ND

#122063 Mar 7, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you actually read the piece?
There are some every relevant points and some allusions that are totally irrelevant – for example who EVER said Lucy made the Laetoli footprints? The size and shape of feet in humans (and most other mammals) varies enormously, is it not feasible that the size and shape of feet of Australopithecus also varied, assuming of course that the prints were made by Australopithecus, that in itself is not a certainty.
I have seen the Lucy fossil, not only is it obvious which parts were genuine and which where manufactured for the display but it is stated in the diagram and write-up alongside the fossil that the hands/feet and other skeletal parts were not found and that those displayed are for representation only.
There is no lying, no fraud and no deceit except by Creation who are misrepresent and misdirecting FACTS.
It's interesting that you saw Lucy... The partial skeletal remains of an extinct ape. Prove otherwise.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#122064 Mar 7, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
It's interesting that you saw Lucy... The partial skeletal remains of an extinct ape. Prove otherwise.
No one is denying that Lucy was an ape. Of course you keep forgetting that you are an ape too.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#122065 Mar 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No one is denying that Lucy was an ape. Of course you keep forgetting that you are an ape too.
Rats! Beat me to it.

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