Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."
Comments
117,341 - 117,360 of 172,518 Comments Last updated 3 min ago

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120451 Feb 27, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>So Christians who believe in witchcraft are less credible than those who practice wicca? That's a hoot.

Hi Nano.

Long time no read.

Niceties aside, why it that a hoot?

Note that I did not give wicca practitioners a bump in credibility; I was simply differentiating wicca from "witchcraft". The former is a religious system and the later is a rather literal belief in spells, demons, etc.


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120452 Feb 27, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>
You must love to make yourself look like a complete idiot, because there is not one line of fossils out of billions, that show the subtle changes.
Stay stupid, it suits you.

If you want to post random, idiotic, rants that is on you, but if you want to reply to my posts then please read them first.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#120453 Feb 27, 2013
One way or another wrote:
<quoted text>You must love to make yourself look like a complete idiot, because there is not one line of fossils out of billions, that show the subtle changes.

Stay stupid, it suits you.
You are a small, ignorant, and very pitiful man.

Get help. Really.
HTS

Williston, ND

#120454 Feb 27, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but that common ancestor went extinct millions upon millions of years ago. And no, you cannot breed backwards. There are so many possible changes there is no way to steer evolution in the manner that you are thinking of. Perhaps if you had billions of years it might be possible, but since there are almost an infinite number of possible paths getting a creature to follow a path back is not a real possibility. It would take far longer to breed backwards by going after a goal then it took for the breed to occur forwards.
have you been thinking about evidence? Are you ready to learn what scientific evidence is?
if infinite numbers of pathways to evolution, there would be no convergence such as similar complex image-forming eyes in humans and cephalopods. Your innumerable pathways are imaginary and your intuitions are not borne out be scientific evidence.
HTS

Williston, ND

#120455 Feb 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Ah,... a good laugh refreshes me.
As if we could breed backwards and forwards with full intention without being able to control even for mutations.
Is this really your understanding of evolution. If it is then I really don't know where to start with you.
Unlearning is about as hard as unevolving.
You're the one who doesn't understand evolution. DNA is DNA, and all species, according to you, are connected. What principle of Darwinism says that you can't breed backwards?
HTS

Williston, ND

#120456 Feb 27, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that you use abiogenisis against evolution demonstrates your dishonesty (*)
It has been stated again and again that ToE does not address how life started, anymore than gravity attempts to explain the origin of matter..
God (yours or someone else's) could have poofed life into existence the used evolution to take it from there as he/she/it takes a well earned rest at the beach.
You yourself have admitted that god could have used evolution on a previous post - I did point out that this somewhat destroys your ToE=Abio argument (and your atheist conspiracy theory as well) but you ignored that point of course.
* talking of ignoring points and dishonesty - you willing to back up your claims re HIV/AIDS yet?- have to keep asking as your constant refusal demonstrates your willingness to tell MASSIVE porkies to support your position.
Simply divorcing yourself from abiogenesis doesn't answer anything. ToE says that no ID exists. If it can be shone that abiogenesis is impossible, then the central premise of ToE has been demolished.
HTS

Williston, ND

#120457 Feb 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>

Evolution is NOT directional. All you can say for certain is that surviving populations will be more fit for a (consistent) environment than previous generations. It cannot say for certain IN WHAT WAY they will become more fit.
That said, macroevolution is made up of many microevolutions.
How can you say that evolution is not directional. If you look at any proposed evolutionary pathway, eg evolution of powered flight, there is directional gradualistic change.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#120458 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Simply divorcing yourself from abiogenesis doesn't answer anything. ToE says that no ID exists. If it can be shone that abiogenesis is impossible, then the central premise of ToE has been demolished.
And YET AGAIN - refuses to back up his claims about HIV/AIDS

so can we take this as an admission that you were making shit up?
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#120459 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Simply divorcing yourself from abiogenesis doesn't answer anything. ToE says that no ID exists. If it can be shone that abiogenesis is impossible, then the central premise of ToE has been demolished.
Oh, and as I pointed out (and you previously agreed with) TOE doesn't rule out a 'god' as 'god' could have used evolution.

It just doesn't need 'god' to explain diversity.

(Let me guess - you will respond to this post - but ignore the one above as it attests to the fact you make shit up)

Actually .... That rules out a rational response to this one as well - my bad.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120460 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you say that evolution is not directional. If you look at any proposed evolutionary pathway, eg evolution of powered flight, there is directional gradualistic change.
No, it only appears that way. Flight provided a huge survival advantage for many bird species, so it would appear evolution was directed that way, but the existence of ostriches, penguins, kiwi,(for a time, the do-do) and emu prove it just ain't so.

For that matter, flight has proven a huge survival advantage for some mammals, but few mammals evolved in that direction.

If powered flight were a directional pathway in evolution, all mammals would be flying.
HTS

Williston, ND

#120461 Feb 27, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but that common ancestor went extinct millions upon millions of years ago. And no, you cannot breed backwards. There are so many possible changes there is no way to steer evolution in the manner that you are thinking of. Perhaps if you had billions of years it might be possible, but since there are almost an infinite number of possible paths getting a creature to follow a path back is not a real possibility. It would take far longer to breed backwards by going after a goal then it took for the breed to occur forwards.
have you been thinking about evidence? Are you ready to learn what scientific evidence is?
OK...if it makes you feel any better... You can start with a petri dish of E. coli...If you don't think it's possible to selectively breed a giraffe, you're embracing a theory that proposes that what happened once could never happen again.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#120462 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Simply divorcing yourself from abiogenesis doesn't answer anything. ToE says that no ID exists. If it can be shone that abiogenesis is impossible, then the central premise of ToE has been demolished.
Incorrect. AGAIN.

Can you get ANYTHING right?

Science-- including the ToE -- does NOT state that an Intelligent Designer does not exist.

Science (and reality) DOES say that there currently is no EVIDENCE for this "Designer".

As science cannot deal with supernatural (non-evidenced phenomena), "Intelligent Design" has no scientific basis with which to base its premise on.

It is **philosophy**. Not science.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#120463 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> If you think that those stories you're peddling are science, you can begin by documenting how the ages were assigned to the fossils in question. Specifically, what methodologies were used, what the margin of error is, and why the numbers should be believed. I have read a great deal about proposed ancestors to humans. I have never read a scientific paper that documented an age that was assigned.
30 years ago Australopithecus fossils were said to be 2 million years old. Now the same fossils are said to be 8-10 million years old. These changes have nothing to do with improvements in Radiometric dating. I'm not going to blindly believe what's currently in vogue that is consistent with ToE. Evolutionists claim that Radiometric dating is inaccurate for dates of a few million years, because some recent volcanic eruptions have been dated and yield dates of a few million years. Given that acknowledgement, how can they back peddle and say that a pre-human ancestor is a few million years old?
HTS
You're a braver man than me

I hate getting hit in the head with Reader's Digest....
HTS

Williston, ND

#120464 Feb 27, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
And YET AGAIN - refuses to back up his claims about HIV/AIDS
so can we take this as an admission that you were making shit up?
Here is one of the articles that addresses non drug-using female prostitutes...
http://www.duesberg.com/subject/rrbprostitute...
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#120465 Feb 27, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it only appears that way. Flight provided a huge survival advantage for many bird species, so it would appear evolution was directed that way, but the existence of ostriches, penguins, kiwi,(for a time, the do-do) and emu prove it just ain't so.
For that matter, flight has proven a huge survival advantage for some mammals, but few mammals evolved in that direction.
If powered flight were a directional pathway in evolution, all mammals would be flying.
Oh the convenience of it all...

Perfect feathers evolving at precisely the right time..

Then...

Bats got jealous and wanted to fly too....and evo-god kindly obliged

Dragonflies said: Whaabbout meeee....!!!!!

Voila!

All done
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#120466 Feb 27, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Incorrect. AGAIN.
Can you get ANYTHING right?
Science-- including the ToE -- does NOT state that an Intelligent Designer does not exist.
Science (and reality) DOES say that there currently is no EVIDENCE for this "Designer".
As science cannot deal with supernatural (non-evidenced phenomena), "Intelligent Design" has no scientific basis with which to base its premise on.
It is **philosophy**. Not science.
If an intelligent designer exists then why could he not have created all at once in 6 days?

Just as He has said He did
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#120467 Feb 27, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
HTS
You're a braver man than me
I hate getting hit in the head with Reader's Digest....
As do we with creation.com with its perfectly valid bias that means it dismisses all evidence outright that contradicts scripture.
HTS

Williston, ND

#120468 Feb 27, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
We went through this just last week...
RAPID FITNESS RECOVERY IN MUTATIONALLY DEGRADED LINES OF
CAENORHABDITIS ELEGANS
SUZANNE ESTES
AND MICHAEL LYNCH
Department of Biology, University of Oregon, Eugene, Oregon 97
http://www.ecologia.unam.mx/laboratorios/evol...
Chimney... If you're so convinced that mutations can improve a species, why don't we start prophylactically irradiating all newborns and/or inject with mutagenic viruses? What do you think the result wold be?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120469 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>if infinite numbers of pathways to evolution, there would be no convergence such as similar complex image-forming eyes in humans and cephalopods. Your innumerable pathways are imaginary and your intuitions are not borne out be scientific evidence.


What about evolution DO you understand? If we get that then maybe we can build on it.


To understand convergent evolution (what you described above) Start learning the following words and their meaning:

atavism
niche
homoplasy
haplotype
clade
homologous
parallel evolution
convergent evolution
Isomorphism


Then answer this one question:
True or false: certain body structures confer a survival advantage.

Get back with us after your homework and we will start with lesson 1 of Remedial Evolution

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120470 Feb 27, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
If an intelligent designer exists then why could he not have created all at once in 6 days?
Just as He has said He did

He COULD have. Now, why didn't he and why does the BIBLE SEEMs to make the claim that he did? Note, that God is not speaking for himself during Gen 1.


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