Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 179702 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

One way or another

United States

#120471 Feb 27, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, here ya go .... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment...
A lot of bluster and too little info.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#120472 Feb 27, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it only appears that way. Flight provided a huge survival advantage for many bird species, so it would appear evolution was directed that way, but the existence of ostriches, penguins, kiwi,(for a time, the do-do) and emu prove it just ain't so.
For that matter, flight has proven a huge survival advantage for some mammals, but few mammals evolved in that direction.
If powered flight were a directional pathway in evolution, all mammals would be flying.
All theories of bird evolution propose that flightless bird were once capable of flight. In the origin of flight in mammals, the same problem exists. The lack of flight in other lineages is an irrelevant distraction.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120473 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Chimney... If you're so convinced that mutations can improve a species, why don't we start prophylactically irradiating all newborns and/or inject with mutagenic viruses? What do you think the result wold be?

Evolution would expect that they would have massive defects and most would die. The few that might survive to have offspring would also be at very high risk for birth defects, spontaneous abortions and death.


So, what does creationism predict would happen. Oh, that's right, creationism cannot make predictions, explain data or be useful in any way!

ItIzWatItIz

Haines City, FL

#120474 Feb 27, 2013

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120475 Feb 27, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh the convenience of it all...
Perfect feathers evolving at precisely the right time..
Then...
Bats got jealous and wanted to fly too....and evo-god kindly obliged
Dragonflies said: Whaabbout meeee....!!!!!
Voila!
All done


Biggest straw-man I have ever seen.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#120476 Feb 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What about evolution DO you understand? If we get that then maybe we can build on it.
To understand convergent evolution (what you described above) Start learning the following words and their meaning:
atavism
niche
homoplasy
haplotype
clade
homologous
parallel evolution
convergent evolution
Isomorphism
Then answer this one question:
True or false: certain body structures confer a survival advantage.
Get back with us after your homework and we will start with lesson 1 of Remedial Evolution
Dispense with the distractions and smokescreens and answer the question... If innumerable pathways exist, why did humans and caphalopods follow the same pathway? What about the independent evolution of pentadactylism is anthracosaurs and amphibians? If innumerable pathways are possible, why did two separate lines follow the same pathway?
ItIzWatItIz

Haines City, FL

#120477 Feb 27, 2013
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#120478 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is one of the articles that addresses non drug-using female prostitutes...
http://www.duesberg.com/subject/rrbprostitute...
Nope, what you said was that NO female prostitutes had contracted HIV/AIDS and it had NEVER been contracted via needlestick.

Your link doesn't support this.

AGAIN - did you make shit up or did you just bend the facts to suit your cause?

Again, this is to evaluate your credibility (you being all about the scientific evidence after all)

So - making shit up - or bending the facts - has to be one of the two

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120479 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>All theories of bird evolution propose that flightless bird were once capable of flight. In the origin of flight in mammals, the same problem exists. The lack of flight in other lineages is an irrelevant distraction.
An example of a dog with a gene that no other dog has (mutation)

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wippet

"A 2007 study[28] identified a myostatin mutation particular to Whippets that is significantly associated with their athletic performance. Whippets with a single copy of this mutation are generally very fast; those with two copies have disproportionately large musculature and are known as "bully whippets".[29] These bully whippets experience no significant health problems beyond those experienced by a normal whippet, but may be more prone to muscle cramping.[30] The mutation has not been seen in Greyhounds or other sighthound breeds, or in heavily-muscled dogs such as Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs, Rottweilers or American Staffordshire Terriers"

Evolution creates new genes in the same species, this is microevolution, which is exactly the same thing as macroevolution over a shorter period of time.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120480 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Dispense with the distractions and smokescreens and answer the question... If innumerable pathways exist, why did humans and caphalopods follow the same pathway? What about the independent evolution of pentadactylism is anthracosaurs and amphibians? If innumerable pathways are possible, why did two separate lines follow the same pathway?
If all genetic lineages that provide a survival advantage survive and the remainder die off, why WOULDN'T they follow similar or even the "same" path ways?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120481 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is one of the articles that addresses non drug-using female prostitutes...
http://www.duesberg.com/subject/rrbprostitute...

A very old article quoting even older sources.

Since this article Robert Root-Bernstein has distanced himself from the aid denialists. His view of the denialists is "The denialists make claims that are clearly inconsistent with existing studies. When I check the existing studies, I don’t agree with the interpretation of the data, or, worse, I can’t find the studies [at all]."

His thesis is that HIV + possibly other factor IN ADDITION to HIV causes aids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Root-Bern...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120482 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> OK...if it makes you feel any better... You can start with a petri dish of E. coli...If you don't think it's possible to selectively breed a giraffe, you're embracing a theory that proposes that what happened once could never happen again.

Giraffes did not evolve from E. coli.

You ideas, born of ignorance of the science of evolution, have been debunked. If you have no better than a straw-man idea of what evolution is then it is not reasonable to try to teach you anything above the basics.

Remember, selective breading uses some of the mechanisms of evolution, but is not evolution in that it restricts diversity rather than expand it as evolution does.

This is a very simple Bio 101 concept. Why are you having such trouble with it?


“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120483 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you say that evolution is not directional. If you look at any proposed evolutionary pathway, eg evolution of powered flight, there is directional gradualistic change.


This is a terminology issue. It would help if you understood enough about evolution to use terms correctly.

Evolution is not directional. Look it up.

Powered flight was the result of evolutionary changes that improved the survivability of species that developed that capacity.

"directional" implies a teleological end that evolution is working toward. That is just wrong.


HTS

Mandan, ND

#120484 Feb 27, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, what you said was that NO female prostitutes had contracted HIV/AIDS and it had NEVER been contracted via needlestick.
Your link doesn't support this.
AGAIN - did you make shit up or did you just bend the facts to suit your cause?
Again, this is to evaluate your credibility (you being all about the scientific evidence after all)
So - making shit up - or bending the facts - has to be one of the two
No female prostitutes that aren't also using drugs...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#120485 Feb 27, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
If all genetic lineages that provide a survival advantage survive and the remainder die off, why WOULDN'T they follow similar or even the "same" path ways?

He seems to have some notion about evolution working toward some fixed goal.

If he has ever taken a biology class his instructor is probably rolling over in her grave.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#120486 Feb 27, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>if infinite numbers of pathways to evolution, there would be no convergence such as similar complex image-forming eyes in humans and cephalopods. Your innumerable pathways are imaginary and your intuitions are not borne out be scientific evidence.
Cephalopod eyes only look quite similar to human eyes. That is because the job they do is quite similar. Genetically they are very and even their interior structure quite different from ours.

Add convergent evolution to the science that HTS does not understand.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#120487 Feb 27, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Giraffes did not evolve from E. coli.
You ideas, born of ignorance of the science of evolution, have been debunked. If you have no better than a straw-man idea of what evolution is then it is not reasonable to try to teach you anything above the basics.
Remember, selective breading uses some of the mechanisms of evolution, but is not evolution in that it restricts diversity rather than expand it as evolution does.
This is a very simple Bio 101 concept. Why are you having such trouble with it?
OK, I'll make it easier still... You can start with any microorganism.. Or you can genetically engineer one to your specifications... You're just dodging... You can't face up to the absurdity of what you believe.
And tell me ... If evolution can take any one of infinite numbers of pathways as you claim, what's preventing the selective breeding of human from a banana? We do share 60% genetic homology already... You're the one who doesn't understand evolution.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#120488 Feb 27, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh the convenience of it all...
Perfect feathers evolving at precisely the right time..
Then...
Bats got jealous and wanted to fly too....and evo-god kindly obliged
Dragonflies said: Whaabbout meeee....!!!!!
Voila!
All done
Feathers existed long before flight, dolt. They are also heat regulators.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#120489 Feb 27, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
If an intelligent designer exists then why could he not have created all at once in 6 days?
Just as He has said He did
God said no such thing. You are treating stories by camel humpers as if they were the word of god. That is sacrilege to say the least.
HTS

Mandan, ND

#120490 Feb 27, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
An example of a dog with a gene that no other dog has (mutation)
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wippet
"A 2007 study[28] identified a myostatin mutation particular to Whippets that is significantly associated with their athletic performance. Whippets with a single copy of this mutation are generally very fast; those with two copies have disproportionately large musculature and are known as "bully whippets".[29] These bully whippets experience no significant health problems beyond those experienced by a normal whippet, but may be more prone to muscle cramping.[30] The mutation has not been seen in Greyhounds or other sighthound breeds, or in heavily-muscled dogs such as Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs, Rottweilers or American Staffordshire Terriers"
Evolution creates new genes in the same species, this is microevolution, which is exactly the same thing as macroevolution over a shorter period of time.
No new gene was created... A trait was enhanced. No one disputes that mutations occur. They do not confer added information or complexity.

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